News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by pull_my_finger on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:48AM (#26423403)
This is something to keep in mind with all TLDs really. They're not all created equal and can be subject to rules specific to their operators. Have to do your homework before you buy that cute domain.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by Cthulhu_ on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:08AM (#26423552)
Like how many UK businesses and individuals had to give up their .eu domain name after leaving the EU.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by londons_explore on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:22AM (#26423691)
I'm really surprised they didn't do the logical thing and grandfather all existing domains in when the UK left the EU.

It seems like the policy was simply designed to frustrate as many people as possible for no real gain for the EU.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tialaramex on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:46AM (#26423939)
The EU continues to control .eu because it is available only to EU citizens. Nothing changed.

Your surprise exactly reflects the typical beliefs of a Brexit supporter, you thought the idea is you get to keep all the benefits you had before, and also you get rid of any downsides you didn't like, and somehow it's the EU's job to help you achieve this after you leave.

That didn't make any sense in 2016, and it still didn't make any sense in 2020, and so unsurprisingly here we are in 2021 and it isn't what happened. "We told you so" is boring but it's true. We told you so.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tshaddox on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:13PM (#26429076)
It might make sense for certain Internet resources to be made available only to citizens of some political region. It might make sense to revoke access to such resources if an individual renounced their citizenship or loses it due to their own actions (like, say, treason). But it really doesn’t make much sense that I could lose access to an arbitrary Internet resource I legitimately possessed because of large-scale political changes unrelated to my actions as an individual.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by rtuulik on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:44PM (#26438498)
> "After large-scale political changes I want there be no changes that might affect me personally."

.eu domain has certain registration requirements: - A Union citizen, independently of their place of residence. - A natural person who is not a Union citizen and who is a resident of a Member State. - An undertaking that is established in the Union. - An organization that is established in the Union, without prejudice to the application of national law.

Its completely normal for entities to stop servicing other entities after they aren´t in accordance of laws or rules.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by schoen on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:17AM (#26432431)
Both forms of Internet naming semantics make sense to me. Unfortunately, we've never reached any consensus or understanding at all about which apply where, or how to tell. That leaves us in this kind of crummy middle ground where different TLDs do or don't assert things about their registrants, to a degree that can change over time, and there's not an easy way to check. (You could read the NIC web site, if it's up-to-date, if it's in a language you speak, and if its stated policies actually correspond to its practices...)

It's not surprising at all that people's intuitions about a particular TLD would diverge. But it's sad, because it means the Internet naming system isn't working well in terms of the function of letting users know what particular names mean.

It's not crazy to imagine either a TLD that says "despite any possible appearances to the contrary, this is a first-come-first-served namespace in which names have no extrinsic meaning at all" or a TLD that says "this TLD is owned by entity X, and subdomains, like subdomains of a corporate or governmental network, are only given to persons with an appropriate relationship with entity X, and only during the term of that relationship". (Maybe even a TLD that says "notionally this TLD is about topic or group Y, but our rules about what that means are kind of idiosyncratic".) (But if there are TLDs in all these categories in the same DNS, both registrants and Internet users are probably going to be unsure which is which, as well as exactly what the TLDs in the third group "really" mean.)

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by londons_explore on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:10AM (#26424161)
But this policy doesn't make sense for the EU either. They lose domain registration revenue. Thousands companies migrating to a new domain name will lead to confusion for EU citizens too, etc.

It just seems like a case of "we want it to be as painful as possible for you, even if we have to take a bit of additional pain for us too".

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tinco on Thursday March 11, 2021 @01:27PM (#26427263)
And so it should be. The Brexit should be as painful as possible for the UK. The more the UK is reminded of what they gave up, and what they will be missing, the better, as it positions them better for reentry.

Who cares about domain registration revenue? The only reason it isn't free is because of the administrative hassle of distributing frivolous domain registrations.

If EU citizens are confused about UK companies disappearing, maybe they'll search and be exposed to EU competitors, how could that be a bad thing?

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by JamesDeepDown on Thursday March 11, 2021 @01:48PM (#26427511)
Fortunately most institutions of the EU are not as absurdly extremist as you are.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tinco on Thursday March 11, 2021 @06:14PM (#26430250)
Preposterous isn't it?
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by dreadlordbone on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:34PM (#26428694)
Who hurt you?
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tinco on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:44PM (#26428799)
The British?
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by kubanczyk on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:26PM (#26430822)
Oh are you from .io originally? (TLD of British Indian Ocean Territory)
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by tialaramex on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:26PM (#26431601)
I mean, almost the whole point of the British is that they fucked over everybody. Americans, Chinese, Russians, Australians, Canadians, Indians, all have plenty to blame the British for.

Even a bunch of people who by rational assessment would count as British can reasonably say the British fucked them over because of a series of Tory policies, first destroying the paperwork which proves they came here by invitation (on the Empire Windrush and other ships), and then insisting that since they don't have that paperwork if they haven't already secured citizenship papers they were never authorised to be here and must be sent "home" - in some cases forcibly deported to countries they hadn't been to in more than half a century. See "Windrush scandal".

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by krick on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:13PM (#26430717)
I was unaware that such thing happened, and I'm kind of surprised as it sounds like somewhat un-EU-ish to me, but I obviously had the wrong sense of what is EU-ish. And I wholeheartedly support that. I mean, it makes sense. If the domain policy of *.eu says that it is for *.eu-based people and organizations, and you leave the EU, why the fuck should you keep it?

If EU wanted to make more money on it, it would have made it available for everyone from the start. If it doesn't... well, it just means domain-selling is not the core EU-business. So it's exactly one of the 2: either Russian and Japanese companies should be allowed to own *.eu domain, or British ones shouldn't. And I don't honestly care which one is it. But it cannot be both at the same time.

So, no, it's not about hurting you, it's simply about the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you. As surprising as it may sound.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by hedora on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:14AM (#26424853)
They maintain sovereignty though. That’s more important than domain registration revenue.

If I somehow owned tax.gov, and was running a tax prep service from it, I doubt the “I’m grandfathered” argument would fly.

It’s likely similar to lawyers.eu (I made that domain up), etc; people should be able to expect that to be an EU based service, not something overseas.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by zimpenfish on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:22AM (#26424264)
> They lose domain registration revenue.

But in the other scenario, they now have to deal with support queries ("why can they have a .eu when I can't?"), possibly legal action ("why can they have a .eu when I can't?"), etc.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by alwayseasy on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:28PM (#26429221)
A British business suing the EU in an EU court about a contract that explicitly says for EU members? Wouldn't go far.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by zimpenfish on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:01PM (#26430623)
> about a contract that explicitly says for EU members

...which would have some British businesses grandfathered in and therefore have a loophole that some enterprising lawyer can no doubt make a great deal of hay with.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by Uberphallus on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:56AM (#26424601)
> They lose domain registration revenue.

I think only micronations have a significant revenue coming from tlds (e.g. Tuvalu)

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by beowulfey on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:57PM (#26428920)
.EU has a functional purpose, and to grandfather in those names would lead to disruption of the functional meaning.

Think of it as a UX reason rather than financial.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by cmeacham98 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:02PM (#26430631)
Sure it does:

1. The .eu TLD is supposed to signify that a business using it is part of the EU. That means EU consumers will know that EU regulations such as GDPR apply, they're unlikely to pay import/export taxes, etc. Allowing non-EU businesses to use it dilutes the purpose and value of the TLD.

2. The EU wants to avoid making freeloading look like a viable strategy. If Britain is able to leave the EU and still reap all the benefits of being an EU member, then what's the point of other nations staying in the EU? Domain names are obviously only a minor benefit of being in the EU but there's a reason this policy is being applied mostly across the board.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by rvba on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:51AM (#26425300)
The idea is that (at least in theory) when someone has the .eu domain, then they are in EU.

There are many ways to skip it, but it blocks at least some.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by kyawzazaw on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:56AM (#26425367)
That revenue is tiny compared to being able to say .eu domains for EU orgs and businesses.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by alibarber on Thursday March 11, 2021 @11:35AM (#26425884)
The EU domain is available to EU residents and citizens, not just citizens. I as a British citizen and EU resident am entitled to one (not that I have bothered - someone got the one I wanted first :O )

I guess an EU citizen living in the UK could also hold them on behalf of UK based UK citizens. Thinking about it this situation does seem a little convoluted...

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by rendall on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:12AM (#26424177)
Harsh. But fair.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by zahllos on Monday March 15, 2021 @06:55AM (#26464439)
.eu domain usage isn't that high, I don't think. I only have anecdata from my time in the UK, but .co.uk appears to be "the" domain to have in the UK.

From what I've seen the same is true on the continent. .fr and .de for example are highly popular in France and Germany. You rarely see local business reaching for .eu domains.

According to wikipedia, the number of affected domains is 344,584. Also compared to wiki there are 11M .uk domains and 16.5M .de domains. According to EurID[0] there are 3.7M .eu domains

[0]: https://eurid.eu/en/welcome-to-eurid/statistics/

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by rorykoehler on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:37AM (#26423847)
It could be a fraud prevention and accidental legal misrepresentation defense mechanism to take away the .eu domains from the UK. If you go to a .eu domain and buy something you would expect not to be subject to import duties etc.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by sigio on Thursday March 11, 2021 @12:28PM (#26426588)
Just a matter of getting a TTP / Intermediary to hold the domain for you in the EU, same as for the local presence requirements in for example .no(rway) and many other TLD's.

It's just another $10-20/year and fixes your 'problem'

Many domain registrars will offer this service, as 90+% of their clients will need it for these ccTLD's.

Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by bobbylarrybobby on Friday March 12, 2021 @01:35PM (#26439145)
Notion is frequently blocked because notion.so is a Somalian domain. Not really sure what they were thinking there...
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by matsemann on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:57AM (#26423465)
Which OP didn't do multiple times and got his purchased annulled. But hopefully in the future, heh.
Re:I bought 300 emoji domain names from Kazakhstan and built... by swiley on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:21AM (#26423682)
The most fun TLD is .su Someone on IRC managed to register "kremvax.su" a few years ago and gave anyone in the channel who wanted them email addresses (so I briefly had [email protected] for example.)

Unfortunately the were asked for some documentation they couldn't provide a few months later and it got shut down.