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Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by anonu on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:03AM (#26385835)
This is awesome. The real loser in all of this is Lebanon. 30 years after the end of the civil war there, and 24-hour electricity is a pipe dream. People still rely on neighborhood generators that contribute to the already bad pollution.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by IG_Semmelweiss on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:43AM (#26387804)
There is a reason for this.

The first time I ever went to Beirut over 10 years ago, I asked a partner of a large Civil Engineering firm

Me : "Why does the power go out all the time?"

The response: "There is no political will to fix this."

I didn't understand the reply. Surely there was immense value in economic development in doing this ?

I drew parallels to being in South America, particularly Ecuador, who had the same issue back in the 90's. That caused so much economic loss. I understood the issue was rainfall swings drove hydro power outages. They finally built extra capacity, and now brownouts are a thing of the past. Everyone benefitted.

But lebanon had no such luck. Why?

I didn't understand the undertones of what was being told to me. But the answer was there. It is a political issue, but not a question of will. Its a question of money.

The neighborhood generators now have cartel power over the generation of electricity. They have a vested interest in the government NOT producing cheap electricity for the masses. Anything that disrupts the status quo means their business is effectively over.

Full 360: The market response to electricity production during civil war, gave lebanon electric resilience (via power generators)...but now with regulatory capture, the incentives are only to sustain the broken model.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by asdff on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:37PM (#26388724)
It happens in the US too. 1br rents are like $2000 in LA. 3 bedroom 1500sqft starter homes are north of $1.5m even in the worst neighborhoods in the city. If you ask why rents and housing is so high, it's due to a a lack of political will to increase supply. It seems backward until you realize the majority of voters in local elections are homeowners, the council members in charge of unilateraly approving or disallowing development in their district are homeowners, and the lawmakers at the state level are also homeowners, all of which have a vested interest in achieving exponential gains on their assets.

I can't help but imagine how different this state would be if the governor of California came from a rental apartment, or from living in their car, and not the latest approved candidate from the old California political machine (Governor Gavin Newsom is a respected SF judge's son, Mayor Eric Garcetti's father was the LA DA for 20 years). Maybe political priorities would actually shift to the working poor rather than the landowning elite for the first time ever in California.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ivraatiems on Monday March 08, 2021 @02:58PM (#26390704)
I think we should clarify what we mean by "lack of political will." The stakeholders who don't want (lots of government-supplied electricity | lots of low-cost housing) have plenty of political will. Their opponents also have a political desire, but a lack of political power.

"Lack of will" as a phrase suggests nobody feels like doing anything about it, when in fact, lots of people want to do different things and those with more power are winning out over those with less, regardless of which thing would be maximally beneficial.

This isn't a slight against you or the GP for using the phrase - it's just something that sticks in my craw when I hear it. Don't even ask me how I feel about the word "unprecedented."

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by flak48 on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:52AM (#26387947)
Lack of will to disrupt the status quo is also the reason why many new builds in Indian cities like Bangalore/Hyderabad are forced to rely on the water tanker cartels instead of getting reliable piped water supply from the local municipal corporations.

The icing on the cake is that water tanker cartels steal from the municipal water supply in the first place.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by imachine1980 on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:14PM (#26388304)
as Argentinian , other south American country we have cities without energy next to power generation plants, and subsidizes for sector who don needed (residential downtown) but have political influence, i live in the richest and biggest cities of my country and i have subside transportation while,in the north who have a lot less resource pay the full tariffs only because my cities have more political influence in national elections.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by IG_Semmelweiss on Monday March 08, 2021 @01:00PM (#26389126)
Thanks I learned too.

Allow me to contribute a bit and please don't take this the wrong way. I understand why you are using tariff. You are using the spanish tarifa.

The word commonly used to represent bus payments is "fare" (train fare, etc). Hope this helps!.

Tariff in english is commonly used instead to refer to the word "arancel" i.e. the cost to export / import food, etc.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by airstrike on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:33PM (#26388645)
Thanks for the insight. Gives a whole new meaning to the "Bitcoin farming uses more energy than Argentina" catchphrase

I'm not arguing pro or against Bitcoin, just stating reality is nuanced.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by anonu on Monday March 08, 2021 @08:30PM (#26394225)
> now have cartel power

Interesting insights. You get most of it right about Lebanon: Yes, you're right its all about money and maintaining the status quo. But its not so much about the neighborhood generators. To be honest, thats a bit low brow for Leb politicians. When we're talking about corruption its usually to the tune of $10s of millions. Case in point, look at the longtime central banker who funneled the nation's bonds through his brother's trading company and pocketed $300 million in commissions. [1] Now were talking real money.

With electricity, yes, its about vested interests - but its also about future interests. Who will control new power plants? New Power grids? New billing systems? Can we make sure that for each Sunni hired in this position we have 1 Christian and 1 Shia as well?

Thats why nothing ever gets done in Lebanon.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-04/u-s-said-...

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Florin_Andrei on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:18PM (#26388357)
Regulatory capture is the long-term attractor for any "free market" system.

The rule of law needs to put its thumb on the scale if you want to get rid of the predatory elements.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by missedthecue on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:24PM (#26388467)
seems less like a market problem and more like a government problem
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by asdff on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:29PM (#26388560)
It's more a human nature problem. A perfectly free market is the jungle, and the most brutal jaguar is king there.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Florin_Andrei on Monday March 08, 2021 @02:37PM (#26390461)
Which is exactly why you need to add feedback loops to the system (minimum wage, progressive taxation, etc), to prevent it from devolving into Bioshock.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Florin_Andrei on Monday March 08, 2021 @02:33PM (#26390412)
Yes. When the government is too weak, or is government in name only, or is infected with "free market" true believers, it becomes the plaything of the great moneybags. Policy shifts towards "freedom" - i.e. the freedom to use the brute force of capital for personal benefit, disregarding the larger and the longer term outcomes and the greater good.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by sandworm101 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:52AM (#26386349)
>> rely on neighborhood generators

I often wonder if places like this are where real green energy revolution will start. Perhaps the greatest motivation for off-grid solar is not having access to a grid in the first place. The first targets in many wars are the power plants, plants fed by fossil fuel deliveries. A country powered by widespread small "gridless" solar power solutions would be very resilient in a crisis, much more difficult a target in a war. Maybe Lebanon can move forward without a reliable national grid.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by pgt on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:53AM (#26386362)
This is becoming true in South Africa due to the unreliable power supply from state-owned Eskom.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by sandworm101 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:04AM (#26386478)
I'm seeing it on the other side of the economic spectrum: rich people building vacation houses on green fields. Other than Texas, North America has a very dependable grid. But if your new house is more than a couple hundred meters from that grid an overkill solar solution will probably be cheaper than connection cost. So new vacation homes in the woods/mountains/coastline are installing solar for purely economic reasons.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by richjdsmith on Monday March 08, 2021 @03:30PM (#26391091)
That's what my parents did. When they built their lake cottage it was cheaper to tie in sewer and water, but the cost to tie in to the power grid was going to be over $30k at which point, they were cheaper to install a full solar system. So they did.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Qwertious on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:21AM (#26386654)
> But if your new house is more than a couple hundred meters from that grid an overkill solar solution will probably be cheaper than connection cost.

If this becomes a thing without charging non-users a flat fee for the electricity grid, then the grid will fall into a death spiral as renewables+storage become cheaper - namely, fewer people using the grid will increase the relative cost for each remaining user, encouraging them to go off-grid which further increases the relative cost of grid-attachment.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by OldHand2018 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:37AM (#26386817)
The grid is already in trouble in places where it makes little economic sense to keep it reliable (rural regions, especially California/West Coast).

The ex-Texas US grid is reliable because of economic reasons (especially industrial) and the Texas grid is not that reliable for economic reasons!

If you leave the interstate system and drive the state and national highways, especially east of the Mississippi River, you'll see industrial facilities all over the place in small towns and cities, etc. They consume a lot of electricity, so it is in the national interest to have a good grid. West of the Mississippi: go read the Bershire Hathaway annual report from a few weeks ago. Warren Buffett spends quite a bit of space writing about how and why they are spending billions on the future of the grid.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by mschuster91 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:51AM (#26386975)
> The grid is already in trouble in places where it makes little economic sense to keep it reliable

This is why regulation is needed and competition on the lowest level of infrastructure a bad idea.

In Germany, we have a legal mandate (per §36 EnWG, https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/enwg_2005/__36.html) for the dominant local utility to provide the core gas and electricity network upon which the customer can choose any utility to provide gas and electricity (with this utility then paying a set rate for using the network to the local utility). Additionally, §11 EnWG (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/enwg_2005/__11.html) forces all network-operating utilities to keep their network operation "safe, reliable and free of discrimination" - and the authority BNetzA has the legal power to actually enforce this.

Events like the shoddy maintenance that led to a number of wild fires in California or the lack of winterization that led to the Texas debacles in 2011 and 2021 simply would not happen here.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by rhodozelia on Monday March 08, 2021 @01:45PM (#26389775)
Not sure why you are downvoted. Utilities are natural monopolies. It makes sense for one entity to provide the network. The risk is that the monopoly gets fat and lazy, but there are many examples of failures from both approaches.

And I also believe Germans would not produce or tolerate the California or Texas debacles.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by mschuster91 on Monday March 08, 2021 @02:04PM (#26390041)
> Not sure why you are downvoted

Probably because I'm advocating for government owned or at least heavily regulated infrastructure.

> The risk is that the monopoly gets fat and lazy, but there are many examples of failures from both approaches.

Agreed (and California is a perfect example)... with a monopoly situation (and in "captive market" situations such as housing where people can't go without the services of the market) regulation agencys need teeth. Basically you want pitbulls, not poodles.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by pgt on Tuesday March 09, 2021 @06:53AM (#26397953)
You are probably being downvoted because your argument is based on cost, but the connection cost is higher than going off-grid in the aforementioned example and centralized grids are vulnerable to tail risks that are decentralized systems are not vulnerable to, i.e. it’s cheaper till it ain’t.

Here in ZA the economy got screwed because nobody was prepared for the centralized provider (Eskom) to go down, which it did because of corruption and race-based quotas (BEE) firing senior white staff. Centralized orgs centralize risk and corruption.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by sandworm101 on Monday March 08, 2021 @02:02PM (#26390000)
>> without charging non-users a flat fee for the electricity grid

With hookup cost to a new property often measuring in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars, the non-connection fee/penalty would have to be very high.

In pacific northwest, estimate 10-15k per electrical pole. Plus any necessary upgrades to the system. Plus easements. Plus maintenance costs. Plus cutting the trees. Plus then paying for power. ... A kickass solar rig and backup generator is very cheap by comparison.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by NullPrefix on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:39AM (#26386841)
You say it like it's a bad thing.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by burlesona on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:29AM (#26387528)
Wow, check your decency bias. Having lived in California with rolling blackouts becoming normal in the last five years, it’s hardly fair to say that Texas has a uniquely bad electrical grid. Texas got hit by a freak weather event that people weren’t prepared for. We can have an interesting discussion about why they weren’t prepared and what could be done about it, but to imply that Texas grid is unreliable in general is just silly.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by anonu on Monday March 08, 2021 @01:50PM (#26389851)
It's a nice idea. But does solar work in a densely populated city like Beirut where at least a quarter of the population lives? Or any dense city for that matter?
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by jablala on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:54PM (#26389018)
I would also add 'The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' as a loser. Having to now take electricity from Turkey, further solidifying this horrible depending relationship.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ddalex on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @03:34AM (#26409137)
There is no meaningful separation between TRNC and proper Turkey government. TRNC is a puppet government, kind of the same way Crimea government, the one which decided to hold a "referendum" and "decided" to join Russia.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by cblconfederate on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:34AM (#26387636)
Lebanon could join in the future as could other countries, if this project goes through
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ocschwar on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:16PM (#26388331)
It is awesome. Any project that improves daily life for any part of the Middle East is a way to show the haters that the world isn't waiting for them to come around.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by sjakobi on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:49AM (#26386942)
How does Lebanon lose from this project?
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by eschulz on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:59AM (#26387063)
They don't directly lose from Greece, Cyprus, and Israel cooperating further with each other. However, they are missing out on something they need, and this shows how Lebanon is diplomatically struggling to cooperate with other nations in the region to help them improve their infrastructure. This is the ideal project for them to join and help the Lebanese people, but unfortunately it's just another potential missed opportunity.
[dead]
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by anonu on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:15AM (#26385961)
You got downvoted by others - maybe because your comment isn't super additive to the conversation. But the general sentiment is right. They have a strong control over the country no matter which way you look at it. They build parallel infrastructures to that of the state: different phone systems, power systems, healthcare, etc... so they are shielded from the corruption and complacency that happens in the government - all while contributing to it.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by koheripbal on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:25AM (#26386066)
Hezbollah has a strong influence in the south of Lebanon, and consequently proportionate control in parliament, but the other half of Lebanon is strongly anti-Iran.

The civil war is over, but divisions and complexity continues.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:23AM (#26386035)
-maybe because your comment isn't super additive to the conversation.

You are correct, but i felt i should draw attention to an issue i think is extremely serious. Also, there is the possibility to explore that Hezbollah may sabotage the project.

[dead]
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by megaman821 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:45AM (#26386288)
My understanding is most the aid given to Israel is spent on American military equipment. Israel is ok with it because they get free military equipment, and the US likes it because it funnels aid money to the military.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ceejayoz on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:02AM (#26386458)
The US also likes the live testbed for anti-insurgency tech.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by underdeserver on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:40AM (#26387751)
Defense contractors, surely, not the US military?
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by JumpCrisscross on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:52AM (#26387952)
> Defense contractors, surely, not the US military?

Both. We get allied assets in the region. We also get purchasing volume for military hardware, which feeds R&D budgets for things we want.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by typesystem on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:54AM (#26386364)
answering to your other comments as well, Israel fulfils American interest in the area as I understand it. It is the best freedom-per-dollar the US can get, except maybe south-Korea. between all of American attempts to establish their dominance and their believes in the world, you pointed to one of their more successful investments. for this topic. If you want to reduce the violence in the area of the middle east, joint local economical ventures are a perfectly good start. hopefully one day with Lebanon too. disclaimer I'm Israeli.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:55AM (#26386388)
As an American I don't want my interests fulfilled at the expense of other's human rights, basic peace and sovereignty.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by typesystem on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:10AM (#26386534)
I'm not going to debate US politics with American but this page [0] shows me Israel is not exception in American policy. As I said before probably one of the few successful attempt to encourage a democracy.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_S...

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:52AM (#26386979)
I don't know what point you're trying to make with that link. The US normally sanctions countries committing human rights violations, it doesn't typically fund them. Israel is an outlier there.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by mikem170 on Monday March 08, 2021 @08:47PM (#26394367)
I'm not sure what the point of that link was, either.

But I'd point out that America has A LOT of blood on its hands. A half million Iraqi's being the most recent, Vietnamese before that, and Koreans before that. Still going strong with drone strikes. Banana republics in central America, mucked around in south America. Proxy wars in Africa. Keeping the Middle East destabilized. The average American seems to support all of the above, which just means it will continue.

I don't want to say that America is an evil country, but it is the biggest and violates the rights of a lot of people (to say the least) in pursuit of its interests. It's an empire warping the world to its desires. Economically (as you mentioned), culturally, and militarily. That's what big powerful countries do.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Tuesday March 09, 2021 @10:13AM (#26399519)
I agree. I'd also add that America was created with the genocide of Native people, built up with slavery and we currently have the largest prison population in total and per capita of any nation on the planet. It's hard not to say that America is an evil country, if you're one of the many people it's hurt, it very much is.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by adventured on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:33AM (#26386154)
Israel isn't particularly funded by the US. They receive a small amount of money from the US, as do about 100 other nations around the world, including several prominent nations that have historically disliked Israel (see: Egypt, Pakistan).

Israel is now one of the most prosperous nations in world history. Their GDP per capita will soon be among the highest of any nation. They passed Japan, Britain and France recently on that metric; next they'll pass Canada and Germany. They're entirely free-standing economically at this point and do not require US funding (even though the US will obviously continue to have deep economic ties with Israel, including militarily).

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:35AM (#26386175)
The US gives Israel billions of dollars every year:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–United_States_relatio...

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:58AM (#26386410)
here's a better link, i think (Sam i am).

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:00AM (#26386437)
Thanks. From the link:

In 2016, the U.S. and Israeli governments signed their third 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on military aid, covering FY2019 to FY2028. Under the terms of the MOU, the United States pledged to provide—subject to congressional appropriation—$38 billion in military aid ($33 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants plus $5 billion in missile defense appropriations) to Israel. This MOU followed a previous $30 billion 10-year agreement, which ran through FY2018.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by yostrovs on Monday March 08, 2021 @03:22PM (#26390987)
Israel and Egypt are always pointed to as recipients of greatest US aid. But that is only because the US military that is stationed in South Korea, Japan, and a bunch of other countries is not counted as aid. And all that military is very expensive, like in the tens of billions or maybe even hundreds. I don't know how much it costs to maintain an aircraft carrier fleet to protect the Arabs from the Persians.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by yostrovs on Monday March 08, 2021 @03:26PM (#26391052)
And on a similar note, when comparing overall spending on the military, the perception of the size of the US military is inflated because in China and many other countries there's a draft, so they pay their soldiers next to nothing while the US has to pay theirs a prevailing wage, which is somewhere around the highest in the world.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:16AM (#26386593)
My pleasure! Always happy to discuss facts.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by adventured on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:45AM (#26386287)
The US has given Egypt $80 billion over the last 40 years, which is about what the US has given Israel over 70 years.

Of course the US gives Israel some money still, mostly related to its on-going military relationship with Israel in developing weapons systems and technology. There isn't anybody in this thread that doesn't already know that. And the US gives money to a lot of other nations too.

None of that negates what I so precisely worded to try to avoid this follow-up response. I failed unfortunately.

Israel has a $400 billion GDP at this point. As I noted, the US does not particularly fund Israel. US funding to Israel represents a now trivial part of their economic system. They do not require the US, they are free-standing.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by snypher on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:17AM (#26386607)
Israel received $3.8b in the covid bill passed a few days ago. If they don't need it, send it back because we could sure use it here.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by solosoyokaze on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:57AM (#26386405)
> Of course the US gives Israel some money still, mostly related to its on-going military relationship with Israel in developing weapons systems and technology

This is the problem I have with funding Israel. We're literally giving them money to commit war crimes and illegal military action. We should be sanctioning them (if we want to be consistent), not funding them.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by slavak on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:58PM (#26389087)
War crimes and illegal military action seem to very much be the preferred business of the American military-industrial complex. Most of the US foreign aid given to Israel can only be spent on purchasing US military hardware. The people who benefit from funneling additional billions into the MIC are the same ones that benefit from ongoing American military actions on foreign soil...
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by baybal2 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:10AM (#26385903)
How it is? It's a majority christian country!
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ceejayoz on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:16AM (#26385975)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon#Government_and_politic...

> Lebanon is a parliamentary democracy that includes confessionalism, in which high-ranking offices are reserved for members of specific religious groups. The President, for example, has to be a Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister a Sunni Muslim, the Speaker of the Parliament a Shi’a Muslim, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Deputy Speaker of Parliament Eastern Orthodox.

> Lebanon's national legislature is the unicameral Parliament of Lebanon. Its 128 seats are divided equally between Christians and Muslims, proportionately between the 18 different denominations and proportionately between its 26 regions.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:19AM (#26385997)
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/lebanon-in-crisis/ it seems the UK government is also worried that Iran/Hezbolla are too powerful in Lebanon. that's just from a quick search.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by anonu on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:15AM (#26385967)
Using a 1932 census. Let's get real...
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by fennecfoxen on Monday March 08, 2021 @09:17AM (#26385978)
This is the country with multiple cabinet ministers from Hezbollah. Perhaps "how" is through these and similar vehicles.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by SpicyLemonZest on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:34AM (#26386778)
I'm not sure where you heard that from exactly, but their unique confessionally-sharded politics mean claims like that often won't be deeply scrutinized within Lebanon. They won’t conduct a new census to check, multiple Muslim groups claim that they have the majority, and most observers who aren’t constrained by Lebanese politics think it’s closer to 30% Christian.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by bjourne on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:05AM (#26386488)
Why is it awesome? I don't think European countries should share energy grids with countries that does not respect human rights such as Israel and Russia.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by roncohen on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:33AM (#26386768)
How do you feel about the EU being connected to the Turkish electricity grid? [1] and Germany being increasingly dependent on Russian gas? [2]

[1] https://www.avrupa.info.tr/en/plugging-turkey-eu-electricity...

[2] https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-pipeline-row-highlights-...

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by bjourne on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:32PM (#26388616)
Didn't I cover that in my comment? I feel that that is bad. But I also feel that the whataboutism argument is overused when it comes to Israel. We should minimize our incidental support of repressive regimes wherever they are found. Especially when we are explicitly called on to do so (see BDS) by those oppressed by such repressive regimes.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by cblconfederate on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:09AM (#26387224)
Turn off your computer and stop using the internet because someone's rights have definitely been violated for you to read this comment.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by jraby3 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:42AM (#26386874)
Israel does respect human rights. It also has the right to protect its citizens and borders.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by ravenstine on Monday March 08, 2021 @04:33PM (#26391919)
They took over someone else's land because of a cultural/religious belief that they need an ethnostate. I'm sure that they protect their citizens and their borders, and almost every country would say the same. That doesn't mean they didn't bring localized conflict upon themselves by disrespecting the rights of others.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Cthulhu_ on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:29AM (#26387534)
Even if it used force to establish said borders in the first place? Israel as the nation we know today only came about fairly recently, and it was only established as a modern-day state in 1948.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by dogma1138 on Monday March 08, 2021 @04:29PM (#26391854)
All borders were established by force... Israel is just more recent, about as recent as every other nation in that region. Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and essentially every other nation in the region was formed around the same period.

The issue is that unlike other cases they were never left to their own devices and let sort their own shit out.

Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by eli_gottlieb on Monday March 08, 2021 @04:43PM (#26392049)
Tell me, when was the unification of Germany, and how did its borders get the way they are now? I seem to recall some unpleasantness with American and British planes.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by sandworm101 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:09AM (#26386526)
Depends on which way the power flows. Perhaps if Israel becomes depended on European electricity some of its more offensive behaviors can be moderated.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:27AM (#26386705)
Probably, everything you are wearing, plus your phone/computer, plus the petrol you put in your car come from countries that abuse human rights, such as china, Saudi Arabia etc.
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by forgotmypw17 on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:11AM (#26387259)
aside from simplicity in living, this is the second to top reason why i abandoned buying anything unless it is absolutely necessary...
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 08, 2021 @04:57PM (#26392207)
Have you checked under the furniture for the paper your password was written on? Do you even have furniture:)
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by forgotmypw17 on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @07:00AM (#26410344)
nope, no furniture for about 5 years now
Re:Israel, Cyprus and Greece agree to link power grids via s... by Cthulhu_ on Monday March 08, 2021 @11:25AM (#26387461)
That doesn't mean I (or the person you're replying to) agree with it. I mean I don't agree with US politics and their human rights violations, yet here I am, commenting on a US community on US-designed hardware and US-developed software.

"We should improve society somewhat." "Yet you participate in society. Curious!"