News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by onion2k on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:48AM (#26088943)
It won't

It won't for small transactions. Buying a car or a house with BTC could still be viable in the future.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:51AM (#26088999)
I still don't see how. When we bought our house in the UK I sent the entire transfer from my phone, paid 0 fee, and it arrived 30 seconds later. Why would I use bitcoin for it?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by lkbm on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:02AM (#26090024)
Meanwhile, if I want to donate over $25,000 to charity in the US, I have to go into the bank (in person even during the pandemic) spend half an hour while they fill out forms, pay a $12 fee (still negligible, granted), and they'll process it within 12 hours.

Bitcoin might not be as good as the UK, but you have to understand that the consumer US financial system remains stuck in the 1980s.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by jefftk on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:30AM (#26090446)
> if I want to donate over $25,000 to charity in the US, I have to go into the bank (in person even during the pandemic) spend half an hour while they fill out forms, pay a $12 fee (still negligible, granted), and they'll process it within 12 hours.

You can do it from home for a negligible fee ($0-$3) if you're ok with ACH instead.

(Same-day ACH has a max of $100k, though it used to be $25k. Next-day ACH is something like $100M, though your bank likely has a lower limit.)

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by leesalminen on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:55AM (#26089057)
I’m currently buying a house internationally. International wire transfers take multiple days and I have to produce all sorts of documents for the receiving country’s government showing the source of the money. It’s an annoying and lengthy process. I’d much rather send BTC to a wallet than this.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by picks_at_nits on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:11AM (#26089320)
If you are buying and selling real estate in a functioning jurisdiction, hiding your identity by making the payment opaque is not going to do much for you.

There are title deeds and tax rolls. In many jurisdictions you have obligations like building codes that need to be inspected and an owner needs to be held to account. If you need privacy, you have to set up shell companies to act as the legal owner, not hide the payment from your bank or government.

Speaking of showing the source of the money, if you bought my house from me with bitcoin, I would have to speak to a lawyer about not running afoul of money-laundering regulations. And no, I won’t take the internet’s word for it that somehow, those laws only pertain to fiat currency.

Something tells me that the cost of fighting my government in court would far exceed the value of my home regardless of whether I was technically in the right not to fill out all those same forms.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Hamuko on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:56AM (#26089066)
Are you saying that if you were buying a house with Bitcoin that the government wouldn't want to see where the money is sourced from?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by nannal on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:06AM (#26089238)
It would be easier, this TX came from my work's hotwallet & this one was part of my inheritance, you can see these TXs where that address sent to the tax authority assuring all tax has been paid as opposed to being passed around a call centre to talk to "Bob" so the bank can provide those details.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:11AM (#26089327)
So......exactly the same way it works with a bank nowadays? When I did it it was just a printed statement from my bank(that I printed myself), showing money arriving from X account, Y amount paid for tax, document from solicitor confirming inheritence, 3 copies of my payslip, done. How exactly is that easier with bitcoin?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by alisonkisk on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:00AM (#26089137)
Bitcoin is useful for evading the law, but of course there had a host of other issues and risks.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Twisell on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:06AM (#26089246)
Like finding out that the house is actually not yours after landing in a foreign country and having spend you life saving on a BTC transaction.

Big issues, big risks, but maybe you have big balls too... I personally don't feel so self assured about myself.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:04AM (#26089219)
No they don't? I frequently send large(about £50k/month) amounts of money between one EU country and UK, we always pay extra(50 euro) to have the transfer done as an express transfer and the money arrives within 60 minutes in the UK bank. Or if you don't mind doing a SEPA transfer then it's 15 minutes. And no, I was never asked to prove any source of anything, it's an invoice payment, it goes straight through.

Maybe by "international" you mean something else, but at least in the EU(and EEA and UK) transfers can be incredibly quick.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by sneak on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:07AM (#26089271)
14x more people live outside of SEPA than live within it.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:08AM (#26089283)
And it's the biggest(by operating revenue) market in the world, what's your point?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by sneak on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:20AM (#26089448)
Apologies, I thought I was being clear. A payment system that lets people transfer unlimited amounts of value to 14x more people than SEPA (presuming internet access), without censorship, irreversibly, and effectively for free, has, it seems to me, substantial value.

Even if it's less useful than, say, access to SEPA, it'd have to be 14x less valuable to break even (again, presuming internet access available to everyone, which isn't a thing yet).

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by JackFr on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:26AM (#26089523)
> irreversibly

People think that's a feature until they don't.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Hamuko on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:23AM (#26089483)
Does the SEPA network use >1.0 Argentina worth of electricity to operate?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by jcranmer on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:57AM (#26089096)
The main reason for a lot of that documentation is know your customer/anti-money-laundering laws. Even if you were sending BTC, you would still have to provide that documentation to not break the law.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by corford on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:10AM (#26089301)
>International wire transfers take multiple days

Not in the EU they don't. A SEPA transfer takes max 1 business day and is usually free. More info: https://www.gbm.hsbc.com/solutions/global-liquidity-and-cash...

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by JackFr on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:23AM (#26089477)
Ummm, I've seen a lot of movies and international wire transfers are not like that at all. Basically one click and they're instantaneous.

Well, almost -- they do always feature cool progress bars as the money is transferred.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by inter_netuser on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:08AM (#26090117)
banks in the UK are operating a charity? someone pays for all those skyscrapers.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:34AM (#26090507)
Well I mean, clearly they make their money elsewhere. I don't pay anything for having an account, debit card for it, or for making any transfers - that's with barclays. So their entire money making process is elsewhere.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gsich on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:56AM (#26089076)
Maybe you don't want your bank to know.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by rvx80 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:04AM (#26089218)
You can't just buy a house with a suitcase full of cash these days, it's not possible. The gov will be asking where that money came from, to prevent money laundering and to ensure it's not proceeds of crime. Whether not you agree with that, this is the situation.

The idea that somehow they'll let you buy something with Bitcoin without requiring the same level of disclosure is a complete fantasy.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gambiting on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:08AM (#26089279)
While I think technically there isn't anything stopping you from buying a house with hard cash in the UK, I very much doubt that either side's solicitor would agree to it without extensive documentation as to where how and when you got that cash.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by rvx80 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:31AM (#26089588)
Yes, for clarity I meant to say "you can't just buy a house with a suitcase full of cash and no explanation of where it came from".

I'm sure it's possible, although almost certainly very much not really liked by your solicitor!

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by riffraff on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:16AM (#26089383)
> You can't just buy a house with a suitcase full of cash these days, it's not possible

I must point out I know a couple people who did that in Hungary in the last ten years, just because it seemed absolutely insane to me (cheques don't exist here, either..).

I am reasonably sure this isn't that common though, and the government still tracks the transaction :)

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by XorNot on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:36AM (#26089653)
I mean the only reason you own a house is because the government tracks the transaction.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Hamuko on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:01AM (#26089172)
For what reason?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gsich on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:12AM (#26089332)
Any reason.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Hamuko on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:14AM (#26089356)
Like what? For what reason would one not want their bank to know that they have a house?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by gsich on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @11:45AM (#26091502)
The reason is "any reason". A wildcard.

"I don't want them to know." is therefore a valid reason.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by bob33212 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:59AM (#26089119)
I want Banks and Regulators involved when I buy a house. I understand that these 3rd parties can make things take longer or add extra fees, but that gives me legal protections I don't get with bitcoin.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by mschip on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:52AM (#26089002)
In what way? As in financiers will pay with BTC? I don't know many people who pay for their cars or houses in one payment. Or is the suggestion that scheduled recurring monthly payments are viable?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by alisonkisk on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:00AM (#26089156)
Poor people don't. Many rich people do.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by rjsw on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:30AM (#26089579)
Paying for cars with one payment is fairly common, I just used my debit card for my current one.