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Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by wintermutestwin on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:12AM (#26015029)
My suggestion: add a "circles of trust" feature, where you categorize your users into different levels like: acquaintance, co-worker, friend, family, special friends. Each post would have a simple bullseye icon to select how far in to the circle of trust you must be to see the post.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by teeray on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:44PM (#26016482)
I think there’s some unspoken stress about building and maintaining a taxonomy of your relationships. Whether someone is an acquaintance or a friend or a good friend can be fairly dynamic. Being constantly confronted with rearranging people into different “circles” feels a bit like explicitly deciding if people can sit at the cool kids table today or not.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by Jtsummers on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:09PM (#26016892)
They can be like tagging. In what context do I know Jack?

I met him through church and at work. Maybe we have some other mutual interests.

How do I know Joe?

Coincidentally also through church and work, but we're both programmers (Jack is an engineer with different technical interests), we play soccer together, we enjoy seeing movies in the theater, and we participate in team trivia at restaurants and bars together.

By tagging people (or placing them into circles in the G+ sense), I can select which group to communicate something to based on selecting a tag or set of tags. "Hey soccer peeps, I'm going to take my ball and some cones down to the field at Central Elementary this Saturday if you want to come out and practice with me." directed @soccer_peeps.

Maybe throw a few groups together that aren't fully overlapping in general: @soccer_peeps @trivia_teamsters "Party at my place this Saturday, here's a link to RSVP and sign up to bring something."

I'm not forced to put everyone into a distinct category or circle, but can use loose taggings effectively.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by hunter2_ on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @09:40PM (#26021943)
I think many people creating social content mainly just want to choose between two classifications:

Option 1 is for content that won't offend anyone or tarnish the author's reputation. The audience can include all contacts including coworkers, family, etc. and the author will often use their real name. Example: Facebook.

Option 2 is for risqué content. It could cause issues with employment and other real-life relations. The audience must be carefully controlled, or if not, a pseudonym (that only a carefully controlled audience, if anyone at all, can map to a real name) must be used. Example: Reddit; private group chats.

This seems to cover most scenarios without the overhead/stress of trying to shoehorn all of these boundaries in a single platform/app.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by cvwright on Thursday February 04, 2021 @09:50AM (#26025749)
I think there's another big one too:

Option 3 is for very personal stuff that you don't want to make public. Many of us put photos of our small children in this category. On a more depressing note, this could also include things like grief that a small group experiences over serious illness or death in the family. Not everything non-public is necessarily risque.

(FWIW I'm working on something in this space. Hoping to have something to share within another month or two...)

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by divbzero on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @06:08PM (#26020461)
And having set up circles, there is also some unspoken stress in making sure you don’t inadvertently “overshare” a post to a broader circle than you intended.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by hunter2_ on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @10:30PM (#26022264)
> inadvertently

Separate icons on ones launcher go a long way toward maintaining intent.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by treeman79 on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:28PM (#26016221)
Google tried this. Google+

You setup your circles for various topics.

Neat idea. Complete failure.

I’ve set up social interactions for major companies. Basically any restriction on who can see what will kill the feature.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by munificent on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:38PM (#26016388)
> Basically any restriction on who can see what will kill the feature.

I think that's likely true for social media apps where the product is "free" in that users are the product and advertisers are the customers that fund it. In that business model, your number one goal is to maximize eyeballs.

But Haven doesn't have that business model at all, so it's not clear to me that a way to control who sees what posts would harm success.

By analogy, farmers want to grow as many plants per acre as they possibly can to maximize revenue. The idea of potting their plants individually makes no sense. But if I just want a plant on my windowsill and don't want dirt everywhere, a pot is what I want.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by treeman79 on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:55PM (#26016644)
Tangent.

Any talk of tech people and farmers seems to always change to pot.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by frakkingcylons on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @04:05PM (#26019094)
Uhhh read that sentence again. I think you’re projecting.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by InitialLastName on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @05:29PM (#26020056)
They were just being self-fulfilling.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by OkGoDoIt on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @05:12PM (#26019853)
Facebook also had it long before Google+, called friend lists. The UI was not great but it was incredibly useful and I’m super frustrated they have been phasing it out over the years. There are some things I want my super liberal theater friends in San Francisco to see, and some things that are only appropriate for my conservative family and friends from back home in Georgia to see. Some things are appropriate for professional contacts and some things are only appropriate for very close friends who understand my sense of humor. Facebook used to handle all these scenarios beautifully but not so much these days, and as a result I only share things that I’m comfortable everyone seeing, which is a very small percentage of what I might otherwise share.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by ufmace on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @02:16PM (#26017835)
It was only a failure at what Google wanted it for - displacing Facebook as the dominant social media company. IMO, they failed primarily due to network effects, as in they can't bootstrap without some killer feature to get people to switch over from Facebook. Circles probably didn't help here, since the ultimate effect is to reduce engagement, when they need to maximize it to have a chance of displacing Facebook.

Probably the big risk for this thing is that nobody wants to keep track of separate websites for dozens of individuals, most of whom only post something they can see once a week at most. You need to aggregate all of those updates from dozens of people you know into a single website and build a feed, then you have something that probably always has something the user might find interesting, and all in one place, so they'll actually check it regularly.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by hmsimha on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @04:26PM (#26019335)
I don't believe Google+ let you self-host, or fully control your data, which seems to be the primary value proposition here. Google+ also wasn't open source, so for example, you couldn't see that deleted posts were actually deleted on the server (they likely weren't)
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by iainmerrick on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @07:13PM (#26021002)
I think the answer to this is to keep the circles, but don’t make people curate the members of each circle.

Instead, have a system where you can categorize your posts and other people can explicitly opt-in or opt-out to following particular categories.

That way, you can do a series of detailed posts on Orson Welles (say) for interested parties without worrying about whether you’ll bore or scare off the rest of your friends.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by 3np on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:58PM (#26017605)
I do not think this is the reason Google+ failed miserably. It’s been rehashed enough that I won’t list my top picks :)
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by samstave on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @03:29PM (#26018697)
For me, google+ added zero value to my life, thus I dropped it post-haste
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by rrauenza on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @03:05PM (#26018453)
Facebook actually has this as well... But hardly anyone uses it?
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by cutemonster on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @05:59PM (#26020361)
All the time with G+ but never with FB. At FB it's not easy to find the feature, but was simple with G+
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by 1234letshaveatw on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:00PM (#26016738)
It seems to work well enough in nextdoor interestingly- but the circles are location based
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by gowld on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:28PM (#26017202)
You cant choose your circles in nextdoor
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by samstave on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @03:30PM (#26018711)
nextdoor pissed me off - when I moved, they sent out a postcard to people I knew telling them of my new address - and I didn't ask them or authorize them to inform people of where I moved - as there were people whom I did not want to know where I lived.

That seriously pissed me off.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by Judgmentality on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @04:14PM (#26019199)
IANAL but isn't that doxxing? That definitely sounds illegal, and I would seriously consider consulting an attorney.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by pessimizer on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @06:33PM (#26020678)
Doxxing isn't a crime. It's a terms of service violation.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by Judgmentality on Thursday February 04, 2021 @04:37PM (#26030091)
I looked into it a bit more (again, IANAL). Doxxing is a crime, but it varies from state to state and intent (so some aspect of malfeasance) seems to be relevant. There's even a proposal to make it a felony in Michigan.

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/doxxing-that-cau...

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by gowld on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:28PM (#26017192)
Facebook has the same thing so that's not the deciding factor.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by tyingq on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:58AM (#26015725)
I like the bullseye idea, but aren't circles often venn diagrams? That is, you might not want work posts to go to family, and vice-versa as well. Doesn't fit the bullseye idea naturally.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by wintermutestwin on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:21PM (#26016073)
Yeah - maybe there needs to be a "customize" option for posts that don't fit into the bullseye. I think venn diagrams would be too complex in the interface.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by SamBam on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:38PM (#26017326)
It seems pretty straight-forward to me:

Who can see this:

    x  Family
    x  Friends
    0  Co-workers
    0  Quiddich team (custom group)
Why over-complicate it?
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by doggosphere on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:24AM (#26015191)
Google Plus circles
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by Jtsummers on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:29AM (#26015281)
That was the feature I loved about Google Plus, I used it extensively when the service was growing. But no one else went to it regularly enough. CS Friends, Video Game Friends, RPG Friends, Soccer Buddies, Family, Immediate Family, Colleagues (several for several different jobs). I could easily post things across circles that would appeal to that circle. Vacation photos go to family and some friends, most don't care (or need to see it). My nerdy tabletop RPG posts went to those friends who cared about it. CS/programming topics went to those friends who cared about it.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by SCNP on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:42AM (#26015465)
You just made me realize that this is implemented in Discord but very poorly. I have difficulty deciding where I should post a meme to get it to the people that will like it. Maybe I'm just on too many Discord servers...
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by Jtsummers on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:58AM (#26015722)
Well, the other problem with Discord is that people have to opt-in to the groupings. Circles were publisher driven. If you were in my CS Friends circle, that was just where I categorized you. It was not akin to a FB group or a Discord server. In those, you have to accept some kind of invitation into the grouping, and you're made to communicate with everyone in the group/server. Circles were one way, from me to the circle. For a circle member to publish to all the same people they'd need to be connected to all of them directly in G+ and create an identical circle.

This is the same issue as group messaging in most instant message type systems (including SMS/MMS). It's forcing a full connection between all participants, when really we may only want a fan-out structure.

I haven't used it much (not as many people on it in my social circles) but WhatsApp's broadcast lists are like G+ circles in this regard.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by eitland on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @11:32AM (#26015313)
Well, the circles feature as implemented and documented by Google managed to confuse even me and I thought I understood it early on.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by rakoo on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @12:27PM (#26016183)
XMPP roster groups
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by TedDoesntTalk on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @01:01PM (#26016760)
xmpp lol. Great protocol, terrible clients.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by mvexel on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @06:29PM (#26020649)
Flickr has had this from the beginning. I always appreciated their simple approach to it, similar to what you are suggesting: Private, Family, Friends, Family & Friends, Everyone. There's no guesswork, no 'Friends of Friends' where it becomes opaque who you are sharing with. Your idea having a Venn representation of it makes complete sense.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by ihunter2839 on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @10:48PM (#26022363)
An alternative (or additional) solution that I have considered is making it easy for a user to provide keys to others to allow access to content.

You could use some combination of the two sets of controls to provide pretty granular privacy control over all sorts of things.

Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by garfieldnate on Thursday February 04, 2021 @05:11PM (#26030383)
I don't think it's necessary to require a formal hierarchy. I loved google+ with it's "circles", which were just tags. Whenever you posted, you could choose who to share with. I much preferred that to Facebook.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by spullara on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @07:42PM (#26021194)
Facebook Lists and Google+ Circles. Failed models.
Re:Show HN: Haven – Run a private website to share with only... by dismalpedigree on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @10:57PM (#26022403)
Google+ ?