News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Monday February 01, 2021 @04:53PM (#25994532)
This is totally the right move. I am a (very happy) user of Stadia. If you haven't tried it, you really should...it's an amazing piece of tech. I can find myself with 20-30 minutes worth of downtime during the day, fire up Cyberpunk 2077 or Hitman or Assassin's Creed in moments from my browser *on a macbook* and play at high settings with no noticeable lag.

Obviously you need a strong, steady internet connection for Stadia to shine, but I'd guess that the HN crowd skews towards that.

If you're an old gamer who wants to play newer games but doesn't have a ton of time and don't want to drop $1k+ on a gaming rig, check out Stadia.

The game library does leave a lot to be desired, no question about that. But this decision seems to be the right move to mitigate that by giving developers better access to getting their games on Stadia rather than Google trying to be both the platform and the content.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by FridgeSeal on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:35PM (#25995074)
> Obviously you need a strong, steady internet connection for Stadia to shine, but I'd guess that the HN crowd skews towards that.

Sad Australian internet noises.

> don't want to drop $1k+ on a gaming rig, check out Stadia.

Or, or, do buy the gaming rig, because it will still work and you’ll still have the games 3 years after Google inevitably shuts down stadia and you’re left with nothing.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:41PM (#25995129)
The amount of times in my life that I've gone back to play an old game I've already played is like...three. I'm not a curator or collector, I just want to play some games here and there.

If owning games forever is important for you, then buy the hardcopy. For me, being able to play games now on the devices I already own is a huge win.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by lutte on Monday February 01, 2021 @08:56PM (#25996638)
>I'm not a curator or collector,

I guess people who play chess or soccer are "curators" and "collectors" considering how old those "game" concepts are?

Some people may only see video games as a replacement for popcorn movies, a vapid session of watching characters talk about meaningless things and occasionally press a button or two as an illusion of interactivity with something.

But some of us get attached when there's something actually -good- out of it and time memorable beyond the technology used to build it. Thoughtful set of rules that allow a person to either challenge themselves or others. Some of us will always continue to play Starcraft, Counter Strike, Street Fighter or arcade shmups. They don't need a "revision" much like Chess doesn't need to be modified into a game that isn't Chess and soccer doesn't need to become handegg.

Stadia is to gaming what MTV is to music.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @08:30AM (#26000713)
Yes. That’s great for you and people like you.

Please let others enjoy games the way they like to, also.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by AWildC182 on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:27PM (#25995565)
That opinion is going to vary drastically from person to person.

I mostly play the same three or four games and have for about a decade. Stuff like KSP and ARMA where save state and modding are extremely important.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by chillfox on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @02:14AM (#25998157)
You don't need to be a collector to keep old games around. You just need to get some favorites.

I keep going back to these games:

- Knights of the Old Republic (2003)

- Jade Empire (2005)

- Shadow of the Colossus (2005)

- Game Dev Tycoon (2012)

- Long Live The Queen (2012)

- Banished (2014)

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by root_axis on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:38PM (#25996105)
You're a tiny minority among the people who spend money on games. Every single gamer I have ever known has at least a few high replay value games that they come back to every few years or games that they don't finish and revisit later. Beyond that, it's not about "owning games forever" it's about owning what you purchase on your own terms not on the basis of a capricious corporation's disposable business model.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by vanadium on Monday February 01, 2021 @09:56PM (#25996976)
And, importantly, I can resell the hardware and recoup a significant amount of my base costs when a new generation of hardware comes out.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @09:38AM (#26001409)
> You're a tiny minority among the people who spend money on games.

Source?

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by lutte on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @01:37PM (#26004766)
Literally every single statistics out there on game ownership. In fact among high spenders there's a troubling statistics showing a lot of people buy games yet never even launch them :

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-o...

>Nearly 37% Of All Registered Steam Games Have Never Been Played

Steam's most played games list tend to change very slowly over time, with a few slots occasionally taken by mediocre "throw away" titles that people consume once and then forget after a few months : https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ In the current month's list, almost all the games most launched on steam are games that are old and have high replay value. Counter Strike, Dota, PUBG, GTA5, PoE, Rocket League.

Outside of steam, one of the most played game of the world is League of Legends. It currently has a 115 million monthly player count, and a 50 millions peak daily logins. Yes, that little competitive PC game has seen more people playing it than the playstation 4 has seen buyers in its lifetime.

The best selling game console by the way only ever saw a few of its titles ever reaching a large player base : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video.... This is known as the Wii's tragedy. The best selling console in the world, but games barely ever sold on it, with people mostly sticking to a few Nintendo's first party games. You could say it's a tiny subgroup that kept financing literally every other games on the platform.

People tend to stick to a few game they consider worth their value and replay them. The people who keep buying new things over and over at $60+ and forget about them after they're ""done"" are a minority among gamers. They're a very attractive archetype for game developers as they tend to be a failsafe for when their games just can't appeal beyond very superficial characteristics but they're not the majority of gamers by far. Most games sold on the market don't sell that many millions and it's always the same group who keeps buying the new shiny thing. The average AAA game tries hard to become an experience akin to movies with their many cutscenes, dialogue and visuals because devs are trying to get the attention of that guy who just keeps buying new shit over and over and throws it away once done.

And that's without counting "casual" type of gamers who also tend to focus on their one or two game and forget about the rest. Of the casuals, the wealthier types who are willing to spend irrationally are what every single mobile game developers wish they had, because the ''whale'' archetype will spend countless grands on just the one game they always play. All the ""free"" video games that have paid for options rely on these people who show extreme loyalty toward the one game. The modern incarnation of Counter Strike subsists from people willing to keep spending insane money just to get a skin that says that they spent hundreds or grands on something that doesn't even give them a competitive advantage.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#26007491)
I'm not sure you're making the point you're trying to make. My point was that I very rarely come back to a game to replay it. 37% of games going unplayed on Steam is orthogonal to that point, at best.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:43PM (#25996158)
> after Google inevitably shuts down stadia and you’re left with nothing

There is literally no way Google shuts down Stadia and doesn't refund people their money and let them export their save files (you can already do the latter). So no, the worst worst case is that you got to play on Stadia for free and if you really want the game again you can use that money to buy it somewhere else.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by FridgeSeal on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:47PM (#25996185)
Like all those people who paid for Google music for years and then when it was killed and replaced with YouTube music lost out because some stuff wasn’t on there, or wasn’t available in their country, etc right?
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:57PM (#25996260)
All my purchased music was properly transferred to YTM, and the analogy isn't quite 1:1 since I can download the mp3s I bought too and store them on my computer. There may have been some cases where specific songs licenses weren't available (I'd like to see the percentage), though the help page says that once they get the license, the song will re-appear in your library too. Over the past year I have found their licensing has gotten better and I run much less into missing albums anymore.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by Kiro on Monday February 01, 2021 @08:04PM (#25996313)
Did they actually remove purchased tracks? Or just couldn't stream the same songs? You buy the games on Stadia so the comparison only works if it is the former.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @03:15PM (#26006000)
I believe you can still download the mp3, just can't stream it since they don't have the streaming licences, though they have been re-acquiring a lot of licenses over the past year for YTM.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ncr100 on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:14PM (#25995450)
> Sad Australian internet noises.

( Didgeridont? BTW amazing stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG9ZX1FS20A )

Self-owned gaming rig also nets you backwards compatibility.

I have used Stadia and have been impressed by its relatively seamless "drop in and play" capability.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by Timpy on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:39PM (#25995668)
I thought I had to buy Stadia to Pro to play any game. This isn't the case. There was a game I wanted to play, it doesn't run on Linux, I bought it 50% off on Stadia and I'm a happy user. I'm not going all in on Stadia of course; I realize that there's a good chance Stadia will disappear eventually. For the convenience and quality I'm getting now I don't mind buying this game on Steam again later if it happens that Stadia is gone and I want to play it again. For the right use case I recommend Stadia.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:50PM (#25996204)
I honestly don't see how Stadia could go away without refunding users for their games. So yes the worst case if you just have to buy it on Steam with the refund you get.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by camel_Snake on Monday February 01, 2021 @08:00PM (#25996284)
what do you mean? why would they? Does it indicate anywhere in the ToS that refunds will be made if your account is disabled?

I'm a happy Stadia user and I'd love for this to be the case, but I think it's incredibly unrealistic. If Stadia shuts down we'll be lucky to get 3 months warning, let alone refunds.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @03:10PM (#26005943)
There aren't many precedents to work from, the closest is GPM but that's not quite a match and there your purchases were mostly transferred to YTM and you could also download your MP3s. On Microsoft side, they closed their eBook store and refunded everyone's books, as well as extra credit for people who had annotations which were lost. While Google does deprecate products, almost all of them were free / small experimental services, so while we don't know how they would handle this case, I still just don't see how they can shut it down without either transfering your licenses to another service or refunding you. Do you have any examples of them leaving people completely high and dry on something people had paid for? Or any other tech company for that matter?
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by speby on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:50PM (#25995209)
I am with you. I think the actual use case for a casual gamer is absolutely there, running and playing decent games from many different devices, without having to invest in and own a more expensive PC equipped with higher end internals (graphics, etc.).

I am worried about Google's ability to actually execute and make this successful, however (And that does give me hesitancy to buying some of the games that are on there, because they aren't transferrable to somewhere else if Stadia is shut down).

For one, with this in-house studio model, they haven't even shipped a single game yet and they're pulling the plug on the approach. That just seems like giving up before they've even tried. But Ok...

As others have said, the single biggest issue with Stadia is not that it doesn't work wonderfully (it does), it is the extremely limited catalog of games available that needs to be addressed. If they can successfully address that, then they really do have a pretty sweet offering that will be tough to beat.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:47PM (#25996179)
They shipped Outcasters and just today Journey to Savage Planet. Admittedly I believe both those games may have been in development before the studios were acquired, but they are both first party exclusive Stadia games.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ThatGeoGuy on Monday February 01, 2021 @08:11PM (#25996369)
Journey to Savage Planet is neither first party nor exclusive. It has Switch and PS4 ports. You'd be on the mark for Outcasters though.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @03:13PM (#26005980)
Journey to Savage Planet was made by the studio they had acquired (Typhoon studios) which they are now letting go again. You are right that it's not exclusive, though I still think it would count as first party (or maybe second party?).
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by muppetman on Monday February 01, 2021 @04:56PM (#25994574)
Great that it works where you are, I assume the US. Here in New Zealand of course it's not launched. So while I can pick one of any other consoles/devices to play games on, Stadia isn't one of them.

If you can't reach more than one country, why would anyone want to develop for it?

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by cheeze on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:11PM (#25994767)
Stadia is supported in 21 countries though. A majority of NA and EU.

Totally feel for you, but similar to anything that requires a decent internet connection, NZ and AUS get left in the dust

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by mdoms on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:27PM (#25994964)
NZ has excellent internet speeds.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by jankeymeulen on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:50PM (#25995215)
Stadia needs low latency to a Google DC. There are plenty of such DCs in the US and Europe, but not in NZ.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by mdoms on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:02PM (#25995356)
Yes it's a shame DCs are immutable and impossible to add to.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:42PM (#25995138)
> If you can't reach more than one country, why would anyone want to develop for it?

Stadia is in a bunch of countries and rolling out to more. It's almost as though it's a new product and didn't immediately launch at global scale.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by fuzxi on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:12PM (#25995916)
>It's almost as though

The sarcasm does not add anything to your comment.

>Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by zajio1am on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:09PM (#25995897)
> If you're an old gamer who wants to play newer games but doesn't have a ton of time and don't want to drop $1k+

Or just pay $150 for a second-hand graphics card that is one or two generations behind current models but was top-end at its age, and put it to a basic desktop PC.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ehsankia on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:49PM (#25996195)
Assuming you have a basic desktop PC, otherwise that will be more than $500, at which point you may as well just get a last gen console... Or you can pay 0$ and just play on Stadia within 5 minutes and not go through the trouble of buying and setting up hardware for a week.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @08:31AM (#26000731)
I don’t have a desktop PC. Even if I did, $150 is ~16 months of Stadia Pro.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by kllrnohj on Monday February 01, 2021 @08:06PM (#25996332)
I tried it and was far less impressed. It was a novelty that quickly grew stale playing on my phone, that aspect seemed questionable at best. If I wanted to actually do some gaming on the TV, it was quite inferior to the (now quite old) PS4 Pro. That leaves it in an awkward middle ground. Where I'm both on my laptop, but I also happen to have better input devices handy. Since if I'm going to get up to go fetch a controller or a mouse, I'm just gonna plop in front of the TV anyway.

Travelling would have been an interesting use (although not interesting enough to buy games a second time), but, well, not a great past year for that.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @09:41AM (#26001451)
> on my phone

Yea, I can't imagine that playing AAA (or even indie) games designed for full sized screens is going to translate well on a phone sized screen.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by stiltzkin on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:52PM (#25995779)
As someone who has tested GeForce Now, Stadia and Shadow PC. I would advice see first what games are available on Stadia before jumping in. Being honest here Stadia library is really limited compared to Gamepass were with a beta xCloud included at least you get free to play games. Shadow PC play anything from any store like Steam or Gamepass on PC or any Android device. Stadia is a cool tech but lacks the backbone.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by anonymousab on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:41PM (#25995123)
I can't imagine anyone seeing it as a good sign of confidence if Sony or Microsoft abandoned all first party game development for their platforms. Not even just exclusives development. Not just selling off or divesting their studios, but shuttering them altogether.

Stadia being good tech is just another sign that Stadia deserved better than Google.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by rco8786 on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:46PM (#25995181)
> I can't imagine anyone seeing it as a good sign of confidence if Sony or Microsoft abandoned all first party game development for their platforms.

Apples to Oranges IMO. Stadia is a PC game streaming service, not a physical game console. Google doesn't own the PC game platform, they're just facilitating it.

If Google had never attempted a game studio and launched Stadia as a standalone platform (as it will now be), no one would have said "ok but it's a bad sign that Google isn't getting into the game development business"

> Stadia being good tech is just another sign that Stadia deserved better than Google.

Probably true. I wish it were a standalone company also, but it's not.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by anonymousab on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:22PM (#25995993)
> If Google had never attempted a game studio and launched Stadia as a standalone platform (as it will now be), no one would have said "ok but it's a bad sign that Google isn't getting into the game development business"

Throwing money at a first party studio was a sign of investment and dedication, though. Had they thrown the money at something else - like developer outreach - sure, that would have been fine. I don't see that as the likely alternate reality had they chosen not to open a studio.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by Lopiolis on Monday February 01, 2021 @07:47PM (#25996183)
> This is totally the right move. I am a (very happy) user of Stadia. If you haven't tried it, you really should...it's an amazing piece of tech. I can find myself with 20-30 minutes worth of downtime during the day, fire up Cyberpunk 2077 or Hitman or Assassin's Creed in moments from my browser on a macbook and play at high settings with no noticeable lag.

There's zero chance I'm ever going to give Google any support in trying to take over the gaming industry. The best thing they can do is kill Stadia, considering how anti-consumer it is.

> The company plans to begin offering its Stadia tech to publishers, opening up the possibility for Stadia to become the streaming tech for other video game companies.

This alone scares the fuck out of me.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by adambard on Monday February 01, 2021 @06:36PM (#25995645)
The gameplay experience is extremely impressive. I expected input lag and streaming quality to be problematic, but I've been a frequent stadia player ever since my (free) premium bundle arrived around Christmas and issues have been rare.

The only thing stopping me from spending more money on games is the fact that I expect it to just evaporate one day and take the games I "bought" with it. Moving to a licensing arrangement to let me play the games I already own/could retain even if Stadia goes away, would help a lot in this regard.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by mdoms on Monday February 01, 2021 @05:27PM (#25994956)
It's not in my country so as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist. I expect Google will kill the product entirely before it ever gets here.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by Epskampie on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @02:08AM (#25998127)
This is the problem for Stadia, it’s target audience is gamers who don’t have a lot of time to game. That is not a fruitful market.
Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by smt88 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @02:24AM (#25998196)
> That is not a fruitful market.

Source?

I know a lot of people, some with children, who have enough income to drop $60 on a game every month without batting an eyelash. Busy people are often a great target market.

These people are mostly Switch players, so Stadia is a perfect upgrade for them.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by Epskampie on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @06:05AM (#25999576)
No source, it just seems like basic logic to me that people who don't spend a lot of time on your product are very prone to cancelling. The linked article seems to confirm that Stadia is not doing so great.

Busy people are a great market if you have a product that can save them time. Stadia is not that.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by vasachi on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @03:29AM (#25998533)
How is stadia an upgrade to Switch?

Stadia is an upgrade to nothing, as in having Stadia is better than having no way to play games. But an upgrade to a dedicated games console?

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by ThatPlayer on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @04:48AM (#25999025)
Stadia is also an upgrade to a last-gen dedicated games console, a PS4 or an Xbox One. Just look at the recent Cyberpunk 2077 release which ran fine in Stadia, but struggled on those consoles. With the current-gen just releases, plenty of people have not yet upgraded.

Strictly console-wise Stadia is an upgrade to those last-gen consoles. But they really need to get more games on the service because that's what people are there for.

Re:Google Stadia shuts down internal studios, changing busin... by smt88 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @04:18AM (#25998850)
Playing hi-res, current-gen games on a smartphone is a technical upgrade to playing Switch games.

It's also more convenient to just use the screen in front of me (TV, phone, tablet, laptop) than to find my Switch and boot it up.