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Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by eloff on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:08PM (#25905718)
They don't run on diesel, but I think the kind of aviation fuel small planes use is pretty nasty. I've also heard it is still leaded, not sure if that's the case here or not.

Many of the boats nearby in the marina do use diesel, for some of the large ones, maybe even the high sulfur bunker crude which is nasty stuff.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by tastyfreeze on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:26PM (#25905962)
I worked on a seaplane dock as a teen. Radial engines use AvGas which is high octane gasoline. Turbine engines use Jet A which is a kerosene blend fuel.

Most de Havilland Beavers in my area are still radial engines due to the nostalgia that sells to tourists. Most companies have converted their de Havilland Otters to a turbine engine. I have seen turbine Beavers from other areas. You can visually identify the engine by the shape of the plane nose. A radial engine plane has a big, round, blunt nose and sounds like an idling drag racer with a deep glug glug glug noise. A turbine engine plane has a pointy nose and sounds like the high pitch whine of a jet engine.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by steffan on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:10PM (#25906541)
> still radial engines due to the nostalgia that sells to tourists

Given the relatively thin margins in aviation, I think it's probably less about nostalgia and more about the $1M USD price of e.g. a PT-6 turbine

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by tastyfreeze on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:31PM (#25906799)
I am sure that is a consideration. The performance of a turbine Beaver is also not as much of an improvement as a converted Otter.

Margins on transportation flights are thin. Margins on flightseeing are not. The company I worked for chartered a Beaver between $600-$700 an hour and a turbine Otter at double that. Seats for 45-minute flightseeing (through a national monument) were priced at $185-$250. 6 pax in an Beaver and 10 in an Otter.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by canadianfella on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:11AM (#25913338)
Pax?
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by Sebguer on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @03:13AM (#25913596)
Passengers.
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by baybal2 on Monday January 25, 2021 @02:05PM (#25907242)
There are no avia piston engines left above 500-600HP today, and 1000+hp are completely unheard off.

This is why a lot of radial engine powered planes that are many decades old have no options for new engines if there are no turbine conversion available.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by na85 on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:49PM (#25908636)
I had a professor in school that hated turbines. You press a button, it whines, and with a small puff it starts.

A radial looks, sounds, smells dangerous, like it's going to fly apart at any second, and that's awesome. Every so often some old warbirds fly over my neighbourhood and it's such a treat to hear those big radials thundering away. They should prescribe that sound as antidepressants.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by jacquesm on Monday January 25, 2021 @06:05PM (#25910179)
This happened here last liberation remembrance day. Four planes in formation, it was like the voice of God, incredible what a sound. I didn't realize what it was at first so it scared the willies out of me and then I saw the silhouettes and immediately knew what was up. You just can't describe the sound of those engines 300 meters up right over your office.

Originally there was supposed to a 4 engined Lancaster as well but it wasn't deemed airworthy so that got postponed, even so, it was mighty impressive.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by na85 on Monday January 25, 2021 @06:25PM (#25910374)
I used to live in Ontario near where the only airworthy Lancaster lives. It's based out of Hamilton, and the Lanc is powered by inclines rather than radials but still an awesome sound. I got to ride in it once, it was a lifetime experience.
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by jacquesm on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @04:52AM (#25914081)
Even if you know what's coming...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by SV_BubbleTime on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:32PM (#25906817)
>Turbine engines use Jet A which is a kerosene blend fuel.

I’m always amazed how people don’t know this and think “jet fuel” is some magic stuff.

I’m missing steps, but I think it’s pretty much:

oil >> tanker fuel >> diesel >> kerosene >> jet fuel

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by throwawayboise on Monday January 25, 2021 @06:15PM (#25910270)
Yes, and diesel, kerosene, home heating oil, and jet fuel are all very close to the same thing. Different purity standards and additives of course.
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by nickik on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:21AM (#25917592)
oil >> tanker fuel >> diesel >> kerosene >> jet fuel >> RP1 (rocket fuel)
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @07:38AM (#25915134)
> Radial engines use AvGas which is high octane gasoline

With lead.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by na85 on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:41PM (#25906163)
Jet fuel (which powers the turbine engines that Harbour Air uses) is actually quite similar to Diesel. Some turbines have diesel listed as an approved emergency fuel, particularly military aircraft.

You might be thinking of avgas which has lead in it, but turbine engines don't burn avgas.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by throwaway314158 on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:08PM (#25908085)
Don't a lot of older small craft—such as seaplanes—have radial engines?
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by na85 on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:25PM (#25908300)
> Don't a lot of older small craft—such as seaplanes—have radial engines?

Sure, lots of older aircraft (and lots of modern small aircraft) run on avgas or diesel, whether radial or inline. But Harbour Air's fleet is almost all turbines. I think they have just a single non-turbine aircraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_DHC-2_Beav...

>Viking DHC-2T Turbo Beaver

>Remanufactured Beavers by Viking Air, upgraded with a Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-34 680 hp (507 kW) turboprop engine.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by jccooper on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:17PM (#25908188)
Piston engines (running leaded high-octane fuel) in general are common in small aircraft. Radials do exist, but most, I think, are inline engines (usually opposed).
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by TylerE on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:49PM (#25908637)
Nonsense. There are hundreds of DC-3s still flying with 1200hp Twin Wasp radials. Service life of aviation engines is essentially infinite - they just keep rebuilding ‘em.

The Russian ASH-62 is still in production, and depending on spec can produce as much as 1100hp.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by baybal2 on Monday January 25, 2021 @08:01PM (#25911135)
> The Russian ASH-62 is still in production

No, it isn't. The "new" 62 are just old stock, or made from old stock parts, or rebuilt frankenstein engines with some new parts, or are Dongan HS-5 restamped as original 62 to pass the type test.

I used to be an aviation fan in my childhood. Tried to build a motoglider, but the process stalled before I moved out of the country.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by Naac on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:13PM (#25905793)
Other than the Hackernews comment from a couple days ago suggesting this, do you have an links to sources saying these seaplanes use leaded fuels?

I'm not disagreeing, I just want to make sure we're talking about real things and not starting rumors.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by jacurtis on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:27PM (#25906747)
MOST seaplanes have piston engines that use 100LL AvGas, which is a gasoline with lead in it (the LL stands for "low lead" as opposed to "unleaded" in car gas). The lead keeps airplane engines, especially older ones from knocking.

These planes are DHC-2 DeHaviland Beavers, which traditionally do have radial engines that would require leaded gas. So there is some significance to the rumors.

BUT... Harbour Air (the airline featured in this article) is a large seaplane airline that have converted all their Beavers to Turbo-Beavers, so they use Turbo-prop engines, which is essentially a jet engine with a propeller on the shaft instead of a fan (turbo-fan is what most commercial jetliners use, these are essentially the same type of engine but using a propeller to convert engine revolutions into propulsion as opposed to a fan). So in this case, Harbour Air's beavers actually use Jetfuel which does NOT have lead in it.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by andrewmunsell on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:17PM (#25905839)
I'm not familiar with the specific model of seaplane referenced here, but 100LL avgas is commonly used in small planes (and the LL stands for low-lead)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by coryrc on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:27PM (#25905975)
https://www.kuow.org/stories/electric-floatplanes-could-help...

Almost half Kenmore Air's fleet spews lead on us.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by dghlsakjg on Monday January 25, 2021 @02:59PM (#25907967)
I'm unaware of ANY certified piston aircraft that don't use leaded fuel by default.

Most fuel farms at airports sell 100 octane leaded fuel by default. It is normally the odd exception that sells unleaded fuel.

The piston engine seaplanes will be using leaded fuel (as will any piston powered small plane with the exception of a few homebuilts and trainers). The turbine ones use regular Jet A.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by biggieshellz on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:12PM (#25908125)
The only one I can think of would be the Rotax 912, which is certified to run on mogas ("motor gas" / unleaded). But as you said, that's more for light sport and trainers.
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by bluGill on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:20PM (#25905883)
100 low-lead is a common aviation fuel. Most small aircraft use it. Piston engines generally use that, while jets of course use jet fuel. There are piston engine that run on jet fuel (often diesel), but they are rare and just starting to come out.

I don't know about sea planes though. My guess is they use lead because that is the best educated guess.

edit: others are claiming that these planes are mostly turboprops which would then use lead free jet fuel.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by outworlder on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:51PM (#25907029)
Yeah, most general aviation planes do. Has a lot to do with infrastructure and certification requirements. You have to modify, then re-certify the engine. Most manufacturers don't want to do that unless there's a clear benefit.

Most people would prefer to use standard automotive gasoline. You can see people in the experimental/sports aircraft category rejoicing when they can find a "MoGas" pump.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by phaemon on Monday January 25, 2021 @12:18PM (#25905854)
Apparently they were supposed to be phased out by 2018 but it's been delayed: https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=1...
Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by alfalfasprout on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:07PM (#25906505)
Most internal combustion (that is, non-turboprop or turbojet) aircraft use 100LL (100 octane low-lead) fuel. Here, up to 0.56g/L of lead content is used as an octane booster/anti-knocking agent.

Many attempts have been made to remove lead from Avgas but it's fairly difficult since the substitute needs to work with the vast majority of current engines and it needs to be easy to produce and distribute in large quantities around the country. Given the much smaller demand for 100LL (primarily used in general aviation) compared to Jet-A used for turbojet aircraft there hasn't been a big push.

Re:Vancouver seaplane company to resume test flights with el... by Maximus9000 on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:04PM (#25908032)
They use jet fuel for most of their planes. Here is an environmental report. Jet fuel is basically diesel. See page 4

https://www.harbourair.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Harbou...