News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by vlozko on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:42AM (#25879988)
I’m a long time fan of Don’t Starve Together and this news is just disappointing. What frustrates me most, though, is that China is able to operate here in the US independently whereas it’s much more likely it won’t be reciprocated.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by hubadu on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:19AM (#25880129)
Chinese app stores take a 50% cut on every sales and transactions. To publish in China you need to get a deal with a local publisher/company which takes another 70% cut of the remaining 50% (before taxes). Plus the long and heavy administrative paperwork to get a game approved by the authorities. Meanwhile chinese game companies can sell their games on western and asian markets without any restriction whatsoever. There is no reciprocity with China on the game market.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by pototo666 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:25AM (#25880154)
> Plus the long and heavy administrative paperwork to get a game approved by the authorities.

True. I am a game developer in China. I can't afford those paperwork, both in terms of money and energy. I intend to publish my game in Western countries.

> There is no reciprocity with China on the game market.

True. Besides, china also has cheap labour in gaming industry, where employees are expected to work many hours.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by __m on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:33AM (#25880175)
Are you a westerner, or does the paperwork also apply to Chinese developers?
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by yorwba on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:37AM (#25881278)
Thst is a very good question, and as others have said, the answer is yes.

It's also a question you should ask whenever someone demands "reciprocity" by banning Chinese company X from Western markets because Western company Y is banned from China. If you ask "if Y were a Chinese company, would they be banned, too?" the answer is usually yes.

Google Search and Facebook aren't banned because of where they're from, but because of what they do, i.e. offering access to information the Chinese government wants censored. A Chinese company offering access to censored information would be shut down long before they got big enough to make international news.

There's no need for "reciprocity" by putting more severe restrictions on Chinese companies. Applying the same rules to everyone would be enough. (Requiring all companies listed on US stock exchanges to be audited by the SEC is an example of a step in that direction.)

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by alisonatwork on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:44AM (#25880221)
It apply also to Chinese developers. There is a good article about this from a few years ago: https://egmnow.com/the-closing-walls-around-chinas-independe...

I am guessing things did not change much since then.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by pototo666 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:06AM (#25880822)
I am Chinese. Chinese gaming industry is f*cked hard by these paperworks. It kills many studios and jobs.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by karmasimida on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:03AM (#25880314)
It applies to all.

It baffles me sometimes that while gaming industry is booming, create massive opportunities and tax revenue, and it is no way threatening the communist ideology, the government still treats it like a step child, shitting on it whenever it can.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by pototo666 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:17AM (#25880863)
At least following factors are considered:

- Old Parents hate game. And old parents usually control the policy making and media.

- Rent Seeking. As many policies in China, no clear rule in terms of game regulation. You want to pass it? Money helps. Those who make such rules don't care about taxes loses. Different department, different incentives.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by snoshy on Saturday January 23, 2021 @03:19AM (#25880624)
To be fair, gaming as a consumer is not an inherently productive activity. The production of games, sure, but the tax of the creation is heavily distributed across the consuming population.

If what you care about is to have your population be as productive as possible, you want to produce just enough of these entertainment avenues domestically as would be sustainable and not leading to large scale distraction, while still mainly exporting the product that has no such restraints.

I think that's actually the challenge at hand for China, and it's not unique to the country. Korea, Japan, and many others face the same issues while having different tools to deal with the phenomenon.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by powerapple on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:33AM (#25880435)
I have to say, game is no longer games any more. For console and PC games, it may stay the same as before, (although the freemium is popular as well). Many mobile games, and casual games is about take as much as your time and money as possible through data science. It is pure evil.

I bought a switch for my son, but I try to keep him away from mobile games, especially those advertise in apps.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by justicezyx on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:22AM (#25880381)
Because the CCP does have a moral obligation to nurture the youth, you can label the motive to whatever you want, but addiction to video games are obviously bad for health and wasting a lot of time such that the school work would be affected.

Not mentioning the gaming ideology is naturally free and liberalism oriented. There were patriotic games commissioned by government, and have been very awkward. Totalitarian nation's government generally tolerate very little about ideologically different median or mass influence tools.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by em500 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @03:49AM (#25880745)
Most governments in the world, including most western ones, have a long history of regulations and legal restrictions on gambling. Maybe the Chinese are ahead of the curve in recognizing the similarities in the video game industry.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by hertzrat on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:17AM (#25881469)
Is steam available in China? If not, what platforms do people use? Do you really only get about 15% of the sale price before taxes? I’m making a game of my own and am just curious for the future
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by meibo on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:35AM (#25881523)
Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance" ran independently of worldwide Steam with a curated list of AAA games, so without the abundance of content and freedom to publish for everyone.

Generally if you want to publish in China I'd say either "don't" and just release a Chinese localization in global stores, if you think that you will have a target audience in China, or find a huge publisher that will help you out.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by rfoo on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:57AM (#25881619)
> Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance"

Not yet. Despite various sources saying it is "near", the separate "instance" has not been up for now.

The main Steam store works in China for the past few years, and it's what everyone uses. Yes, I mean I can buy a copy of Devotion on Steam with Alipay (or Wechat Pay) + RMB, download and play it without messing with anything. I have no idea why it hasn't been banned though.

The Steam Community pages did get GFW-ed, just as every other sites hosting UGC without censorship[1].

[1]: If it is not, it's usually just a "Five demands not one less" away from being banned. Even scratch.mit.edu.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by b0rsuk on Saturday January 23, 2021 @03:58AM (#25880787)
>There is no reciprocity with China on the game market.

There is no single word for reciprocity in Chinese. You can make do with phrases like "mutual benefit".

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by solstice on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:18AM (#25881205)
I think that you're wrong specifically and in what seems like an uncharitable insinuation about China.

对等 duì deng: equal status/treatment, parity (under the law), equity, reciprocity

在对等的基础上 Zài duì děng de jīchǔ shàng on the basis of reciprocity; on a reciprocal basis

Source: plecodict

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by rfoo on Saturday January 23, 2021 @07:00AM (#25881636)
This is definitely false.

Could you help shedding light on how this myth spreads? Like, where did you read about this myth? I have seen it mentioned on HN/Reddit multiple times and can't find the source.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by _cs2017_ on Saturday January 23, 2021 @03:35AM (#25880680)
> I’m a long time fan of Don’t Starve Together and this news is just disappointing

What makes it disappointing? Do you mean Tencent will mess up the quality of the game, etc?

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by blackbrokkoli on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:18AM (#25882376)
Not too unlikely.

After they bought League of Legends, they "updated" several dozen paid skins, some worth significant money apparently without communicating to Riot Games (the company directly in control of LoL, or rather the one who once was) or the player base. The quality of the update was mediocre to laughable.

Reversion/Fixing took month and there was never any apology IIRC.

Also, putting money into an indie game dev vs. putting money into a CRP-controled conglomerate which is silently buying more and more media may or may not be a morally different endeavor for someone.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by _cs2017_ on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:19PM (#25885228)
Ah interesting. If you get a chance could you share a link to the story about the skin update made by Tencent without consulting with Riot?

Also, what is CRP?

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:11AM (#25880091)
Tesla in China is 100% foreign owned. More and more totally-foreign-owned companies in China are appearing.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by actuator on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:00AM (#25880298)
Tesla might have been allowed because it works well for the auxiliary industries in PRC which in turn helps their own EV companies.

Also, a cynical take. If Tesla has something worth copying, it might be easier as well.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:13AM (#25880349)
Perhaps, but is that a problem? Isn't it a good thing when interests are aligned? Tesla looked at the situation and they are fine with it, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Allowing majority foreign ownershipnis a process that has been ongoing for years. Every year, more parts of the Chinese economy open up.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by throw14082020 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:23AM (#25880388)
Is this a problem? Let me introduce you to the LANDWIND, the chinese copy of Range rover vehicles. Tesla is taking a huge risk, lots and lots and lots of unknowns, for the sake of tapping into China more effectively. https://www.theweek.co.uk/business/61500/landwind-x7-14000-r...
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by toxik on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:00AM (#25880798)
Good, maybe the competition will make auto manufacturers think twice before they cost cut another component.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:27AM (#25880403)
And in return for that risk, isn't Tesla making a boatload of money?
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by actuator on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:28AM (#25880407)
I don't know why you were downvoted but I don't think it is a problem. Musk also took a call that is profitable in the short/medium run.

It might even be profitable in the longer run as long as the brand image holds like it has been for Apple.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by MangoCoffee on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:45AM (#25880229)
its 'cause the trade war that force China to allowed this. if there is no trade war. do you think China will allowed what have been working for them for the past 40+ years?
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:05AM (#25880324)
China has in fact not been employing the same strategy for 40 years. That would be foolish. Different developmental stages require different strategies. As China's economy matures, the strategy is increasingly changing to that of opening up.

The move to open up their markets, and to allow majority-foreign ownership, began way before the trade war. It was already ongoing in 2014: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25647808

China signed a major investment deal with the EU last month. China made major concessions. Unlike Trump, who with his "tough on China" tactics only managed to antagonize China and didn't get a proper trade deal, the EU got the sort of concessions that Trump was after, by being properly diplomatic.

This is the problem with the US attitude of treating China as an enemy. I also have no idea where all the "engaging with China is a failed strategy" and crowd comes from: the EU literally showed you that engagement works better than antagonization and coercion! Facts literally show you that China was already opening up before Trump!

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by ekianjo on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:26AM (#25880157)
Why does the WTO allow this kind of things to happen btw?
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by vectorcrumb on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:00AM (#25880297)
Because the WTO has as much control over China as the UN has over the USA.
[dead]
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by psaux on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:09AM (#25880085)
Can you please expand and add some links? As someone who worked for Latin banks and lived globally, I would like to hear more.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by vector_spaces on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:15AM (#25880105)
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by ficklepickle on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:05PM (#25886076)
Wow that is unspeakably horrible. Truly inexcusable.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by arcticbull on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:00AM (#25881390)
Maybe you'd like to read more about Operation PBSuccess - they sure didn't call it that because it failed. [1] The US (specifically the CIA) replaced a democratically elected "socialist" in Guatemala with a right-wing authoritarian military dictator at the request of what is now the Chiquita fruit company. This of course kick-started a civil war that lasted 36 years.

On the plus side, it gave us "Why the Kremlin Hates Bananas" [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27état

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZtAKHnqkf4&t=120s

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by devy on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:13AM (#25880098)
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by eganist on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:12AM (#25880095)
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by psaux on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:19AM (#25880124)
Interesting it lists right wing and left wing focus. Sounds like the US is bias towards the middle. Not sure how to groc that. Most likely it is what is important to the nation at the time would be a better qualification. History repeats itself. Thank you for sharing the links all.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by arcticbull on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:07AM (#25881419)
The US bias when, uh, intervening in foreign politics is towards whatever's best of the US. Usually, more specifically, US corporate interests. Little care is paid to who ends up in charge so long as they're pro-"Business" and pro-America.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by psaux on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:11PM (#25887818)
Looping back. That was I said or at least was trying to convey. It is what the the nation, US in this case, finds in their best interest.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by arcticbull on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:22PM (#25887920)
Ah gotcha! :) sounds like we're in violent agreement.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:12AM (#25880094)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It's world-wide. Iran, China, the list goes on.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by dmix on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:43AM (#25880219)
> In December 2019, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo stated that the United States did not plan a military intervention in Venezuela, saying that "we have said that all options are on the table", but that "we have learned from history that the risks from using military force are significant".

There has been zero proven connection between that operation with any US gov office nor even Guaidó himself. It was 100% amateur hour and initiated by a con man’s security company.

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by brahyam on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:56AM (#25880281)
As a Venezuelan and victim of Maduro's constant anti imperialist propaganda I strongly believe the operation gedeon is just a fake. If the US would like to remove Maduro from power I don't think they would send 30 poorly trained, barely equipped men, from which the grand majority didn't even have military experience to disembark in one of the most popular coasts of Venezuela just a few kilometers from a navy base.

If you want to read more from a great independent news site https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2020/05/05/the-macutazo-ti...

Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by babelfish on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:06AM (#25880328)
Members of Congress have literally referred to it as a coup on Twitter, it’s not some big secret or something you can choose not to believe in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24052507
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by jtms on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:38AM (#25880194)
That’s some nice, completely irrelevant what-about-ism
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:48AM (#25880246)
Do you denounce the grandparent's comment about international economic rules as whataboutism too? The topic is Tencent's acquisition, not international economic rules.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by kortilla on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:01AM (#25880307)
Well considering the fact that the grandparent comment wasn’t about the WTO, why would it need to be denounced?
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by FooBarWidget on Saturday January 23, 2021 @02:19AM (#25880371)
I read the threading order wrong. Corrected.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by jtms on Saturday January 23, 2021 @03:07AM (#25880575)
no, I don't, its absolutely relevant to the discussion about business and game industry economics.
Re:Tencent is acquiring a majority stake in Klei Entertainment by mjfl on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:26AM (#25880158)
so then you must take China as a better steward of the global order? you believe China should be able to bully the US, like the US has 'bullied' others? you believe they are on the side of justice?