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Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @05:48AM (#25844851)
I don't know how we got to this state that we don't control our own basic processes and how they behave.

Just off the top of my head right now on osx: can't shut down creative cloud app from the app bar, can't shut down webex, docker desktop regularly hijacks everything I'm doing (once when having a presentation in front of 100 people) to show there's an update, steam client jumping in the tray for hours unless I acknowledge there's an update, apps registering to be started on boot by themselves and having to go through a convoluted process to turn it off (if it even exists)...

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:15AM (#25846647)
I police that shit endlessly. I get I have not-normal expectations -- like, I HATE it when ANYTHING takes focus on its own -- but absolutely DO NOT make it hard for me to quit your app.

I don't use WebEx much, but its "Hey, I know you just tried to quit but don't you want me to hang out just in case" attitude makes me CRAZY.

I'm a little confused by your reference to the "tray" on OSX tho. Where's the tray? We have a dock, and we have a menu bar where some things go, but no tray that I'm aware of.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by reaperducer on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:50AM (#25848655)
I HATE it when ANYTHING takes focus on its own

This didn't used to be possible in MacOS X. When I switched from Windows, it was such a lovely surprise I considered it one of the best reasons to make the change.

That didn't last. Maybe five years ago, something changed and MacOS allowed programs to hijack focus. I was so disappointed.

Apple seems to be (very slowly) getting back to fundamentals. I wish reverting this change was part of that program.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by yowlingcat on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:57AM (#25848751)
> This didn't used to be possible in MacOS X. When I switched from Windows, it was such a lovely surprise I considered it one of the best reasons to make the change.

Agreed. There's few seemingly "minor" things that can make me see bright red quite like this. It's such an actively hostile dark UX pattern. It should simply be made impossible.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:23AM (#25846728)
I super agree with you. By tray I mean the thing on top right with the icons for various apps. I guess it's the menu bar.

What drives me crazy the most is I can see the context menu, for example for Webex, is disabled intentionally so we can't have the quit option there

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by jackson1442 on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:13AM (#25848140)
I don't personally use Webex, but have you tried option + clicking the icon in the menu bar? That's the generally accepted way to reveal more context (for example, doing this to the wifi icon reveals a lot more detail about your connection).
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by swiley on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:16AM (#25848183)
I never deal with any of this sort of thing.

People think I'm weird or must struggle with bad UIs for being picky and only using older FOSS apps but IME your life/UX is actually a lot better for it.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by alpaca128 on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @05:26PM (#25852794)
Same. About two years ago I fully switched to Linux, and at some point this made me realise the full depth of all the Linux and OSS arguments when my perspective wasn't limited to Windows concepts anymore.

By now I do almost everything in the terminal except for web browsing. And what can I say, I do not miss the popups, confusing menus, dark UI patterns, and all the other bad ideas.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by unicornporn on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @04:02PM (#25851945)
All this crap is why I'm currently considering Linux over macOS (which I'm currently on most of the time). In time, it might be the refuge for people suffering from computers and operating systems that wants to control rather than be controlled.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:00AM (#25844929)
I no longer use Windows on any of my PCs. I have currently two instances that run as VMs.

One dedicated solely for remote connection to my work. The company insists on software to scan that my PC is "secure", so I give them a finger with an almost virgin Windows install. Their crap can work only on Windows, so I don't actually have any choice.

Another is for any application that I use that I absolutely can't find replacement for on Linux.

I also have separate Linux VMs for suspect software like Zoom that I have to use but I don't trust to run on my machine or try to take over my desktop.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:25AM (#25848287)
> The company insists on software to scan that my PC is "secure", so I give them a finger with an almost virgin Windows install. Their crap can work only on Windows, so I don't actually have any choice.

Maybe this software actually is crap and you know this for a fact. Maybe whoever is in charge doesn't know what they're doing. If so maybe ignore this comment.

With that said though, the principle to only allow "secure" systems for remote access sounds absolutely reasonable.

Having been on the other side of this situation, I have to say users like you are a real pain to deal with sometimes. There are always a few who "know their stuff thank-you-very-much", and feel that they need to "give the finger" to whatever measures are taken to secure things.

Try to see it from the IT-sec guy's perspective. Maybe some "crap" endpoint security software on the PCs isn't the end of the world if it helps keep things secure?

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mr_gibbins on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:57AM (#25848747)
I have two laptops, a work laptop and a personal laptop. The work laptop is supplied by my employer and as far as I'm concerned they can install whatever they damn well please on it, because the only thing I use it for, and I mean the only thing, is work - no Internet searches, no random software downloads, not even HN. A patch of tape over the camera and away we go.

My personal laptop stays personal. It's mine and doesn't belong to anyone else. I never use it for work, even if alongside me during working hours. Zero crapware, minimal AV.

I have the same approach to phones. There's my phone, and my work phone. I was pressured to put Outlook, Teams on my personal phone since my work phone is switched off out of hours - I nearly succumbed, until that Office Portal app wanted to 'manage my device'. Nope. Our primary on-call comms mechanism remains SMS/direct call.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @12:03PM (#25848831)
Sounds like an excellent setup as long as you don't mind the additional hardware.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @12:14PM (#25848960)
The issue is this practice does not achieve anything and only achieves to annoy me as a person who must navigate unnecessary complexity of trying to do honest work.

If employer is really interested in achieving some measure of security, there would have to be separate computer configured and locked to only allow it to be used for work.

That would, I think be "reasonable".

What I think is not reasonable is meddling in my own machine which I treated as my own until one day my employer said "Sorry, from now your private PC is ours to audit because we are not willing to spend equivalent of two days of your income to provide a machine for you to securely, conveniently and reasonably access our system".

Nobody really cared for the fact that my all machines are running Linux, they just have assumed that I must have some kind of PC and that that PC is running either Windows or Linux. And so they configured their system so that before I can use Citrix (which works perfectly fine on Linux) their piece of crap written for Windows or Macos (no Linux version) must run and report what is installed and running on my machine for their own silly needs.

No, that is not "reasonable" and for that my honest middle finger.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @01:09PM (#25849740)
Ok so it seems the real problem is that your employer does not provide you with the tool you need to perform your work, i.e. a computer. If they did, they would have the responsibility and ability to secure it. By methods which could include installing some auditing software.

It's obviously not really reasonable to expect you to install such things on your private computer. Sounds like there could actually be some legal issues with such practice?

If it was your own choice to use your private computer then that's a different story. But it sounds like it is definitely not by choice.

> Nobody really cared for the fact that my all machines are running Linux

2021 is the year Linux becomes a mainstream desktop OS right? ;-)

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @02:00PM (#25850430)
> 2021 is the year Linux becomes a mainstream desktop OS right? ;-)

Except I have been running Linux on desktops since 1999. I have Debian server that has been regularly updated since 2000 (that includes hardware changes and moving OS image from HDD to HDD and finally to SSD).

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @02:53PM (#25851112)
The fact that you are a long-time user doesn't make it mainstream though. Sorry. I'm with you in hoping for that to change!
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by hazmazlaz on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:58PM (#25862602)
I am in charge of IT security for my company and in my experience users like you get put in a tough place. On one hand, you want the freedom to work however you like, but on the other hand the company has real requirements and limitations imposed on them that necessitate dictating how end users compute. I am also guessing that for every user like yourself who would gladly use a company provided device to keep their personal and work computing separate, there is a corresponding user who absolutely will not tolerate being forced to use an additional corporate machine and will complain until blue in the face about it. It's a lose-lose situation for IT.

There is also the matter of endpoint protection to consider. If I am allowing a personal device to connect to my environment, how do I know that device is secure? The only way to have any level of assurance to that fact is to install remote monitoring agents, inspect the configuration of the system, and restrict administrative permissions so the end-user (or an attacker who hijacks the end user's access) cannot mess with things in such a way as to compromise the already shaky ground the integrity of that system stands upon.

If I worked at your company, I would give two options: either use a corporate machine for work activities, or if using a personal machine for whatever reason then IT gets administrative control of the device. There is no third option. And before IT assumes administrative rights to manage the device, the end user is signing an acceptable use policy that they agree to any and all IT security controls placed upon the device. If that is unacceptable then the alternative is always to use the corporate device.

I am not sure if you're an FTE or a contractor or what your locale is, but IMO imposing that kind of control over a privately owned device without an agreement would be at best inappropriate, and potentially illegal. My response would have been "No, thank you." I do however sympathize that it is not always possible to take that stance.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:20AM (#25845075)
I don't know what's the solution. I'm trying to get back to linux but then my suspend doesn't work, touchpad feels sluggish and my battery lasts 2 hours instead of 7+.

Not to mention things like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843874

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:25AM (#25845111)
There are tools to debug power issues on Linux laptops. I use these from time to time especially when I am going to be sailing for couple of days.

I can use my t440s (7yo) for over 24 hours on three batteries, internal 3 cell, and external 3 cell and 9 cell. I use it for light development, reading PDFs, some web, etc.

There are also laptops that are more Linux friendly than others. It is best to buy laptop specifically for Linux use and do research before the purchase.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:32AM (#25845156)
Maybe I'm being an asshole and should "submit a patch" but I really get annoyed when basic things don't work. I'm happy to debug custom software, but I don't understand how things like battery management isn't solved.

I've used it on many laptops including a fully specced Dell XPS 13 (which burned out after a small spill on the keyboard)

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:38AM (#25845193)
Mine was once drenched completely in hot sweet latte and once submerged in mineral water (don't ask how...) It still works with no issues even though both times I had to disassemble completely and wash all parts including motherboard. The mineral water got between lcd leaves so I had to separate, wash and dry individual layers of LCD.

My tip is to always have IPA, distilled water and tools to disassemble and clean your laptop.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by oAlbe on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:48AM (#25845278)
How do you wash electronic components without causing damage?
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:03AM (#25845397)
Most boards can be washed safely but there are some components that can be damaged.

Safest method is to use distilled, deoxygenated water (aka electronic water) to remove most contaminants, followed by 99% isopropyl alcohol or 96% ethyl alcohol to remove the rest and also water.

Don't skimp on water and alcohol, submerge the board and use brush while submerged, to pull and dilute contaminants.

Just never use tap or mineral water. You can use regular distilled water as long as you do it quickly, but unless it is deoxygenated it will be corroding so don't leave it in water for long.

Alcohol is there mostly to dilute water so that it dries out very quickly. Without alcohol water could stay under components for a long time and kill or damage your board.

Alcohols can damage some plastic components, so don't keep it in alcohol fo too long, either.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Ardon on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @10:09AM (#25847271)
Water is not instantly harmful to unpowered electronics, especially distilled water. Just make sure there's no power and go to town.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:25AM (#25848296)
I would add that washing with water is normal part of board production. Fluxes are designed to be water soluble and a lot of fluxes are washed with water with addition of saponifiers.

It is also normal to wash a board in ultrasonic cleaner after any rework or at the end of production process (especially in small scale production).

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by frongpik on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:41PM (#25853875)
Is it really worth your time?
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Thursday January 21, 2021 @10:17AM (#25859682)
Depends. If you decide it is not possible for you to spill on your laptop or the loss of your laptop is worth less than half a day of your time and keeping two bottles one of clean water and one of clean alcohol, then sure, just ignore this.

On the other hand if you own an expensive machine that can be reasonably disassembled (ie. almost anything else than a Mac) and you plan to use it for a long time and you don't have any other insurance against spill, then you might be able to save a lot of money with a very small amount of effort.

My laptop was fully beefed up Lenovo T440s and I live in Poland. In Poland, this laptop represented about 3-4 average monthly salaries. Not much compared to half a day of effort to disassemble, clean and reassemble again.

Half a day assumes you have no idea what you are doing and you are need extra time to figure out what to do, find videos on Internet, figure out why you can't pull a part and what still keeps it in place, etc.

For a person that knows what they are doing this is half an hour of effort.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by frongpik on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:01PM (#25861128)
There's also a big risk of repair going wrong. But you're right: I was judging the situation from the SV bubble.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by modo_mario on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:52AM (#25845816)
What distro and laptop do you use currently?

It's indeed annoying. More so that it generally is solved but is to be found somewhere in the fragmented linux ecosystem.

I had no issues with my laptop and it worked better than windows which turns it into a jetengine for some reason except for bluetooth earbuds for which i needed a fork of pulseaudio or so....

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:12AM (#25845989)
Right now I'm back to osx but I'm really missing a good tiling manager like i3wm. As for the future I'm looking at system76 desktops, but still undecided (especially since apple's m1 hardware)
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by 3np on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:49AM (#25845793)
That horrible battery life on Ubuntu on an XPS 13 sounds like something else wrong. Several of my coworkers are running exactly that (over different generations even) and it's been with no tweaks.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by fsflover on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:38AM (#25848478)
You simply need a laptop which was designed for Linux, not the one on which you can install it. I recommend this one: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @12:20PM (#25849044)
I have used Thinkpads for decades with Linux.

There are, of course, rough spots. But overall Thinkpads are just so much better machines.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by everdrive on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:24AM (#25846112)
Perhaps this is why I always hear it's the year of the linux desktop.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by klodolph on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:49AM (#25846378)
Linux desktop has been falling behind, IMO.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by everdrive on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:56AM (#25846459)
How do you feel it is falling behind? Not disagreeing or agreeing, just curious for your thoughts.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by klodolph on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @12:27PM (#25849119)
In the march forwards, e.g. GNOME 2 -> GNOME 3, there are a number of regressions mixed in with the improvements. I think tackling overall UX may be seen as unattractive work compared to tacking on new features.

For example, GNOME Files (formerly Nautilus) and the GTK file chooser are not even as good as competitors from the 1990s (like the Mac or Windows equivalents). GIMP and Inkscape are also noticeable steps down from the equivalent software we used in the 1990s (not just the well-known Adobe products, but also products from Corel, Macromedia, etc.)

My impression is that the Linux desktop is playing catch-up with the Windows and Mac desktops, but since Microsoft and Apple have better funding it’s an impossible job—the target is moving too fast. In an effort to catch up with modern UIs, features that used to work are getting broken or the UX is degrading. The GNOME 2 -> GNOME 3 switch is just one example. I’m not saying GNOME 2 is better than GNOME 3 overall, just that large-scale changes are moving too fast and the polish and long-term fixes are coming too slowly by comparison.

Linux is usually my primary desktop and when I switch to my Mac it feels like a breath of fresh air.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by jayjader on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:40AM (#25845217)
With regards to the battery issues, I'd suggest seeing if the TLP utility is available in your distro's packages.

It's more than doubled battery "life" (== time to discharge) for me.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by fsflover on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:36AM (#25848447)
I think you might be interested in Qubes OS [0], which provides secure and user-friendly hardware virtualization for all your VMs, including Windows.

[0] https://qubes-os.org

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by hazmazlaz on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:09PM (#25862735)
Honestly I would love it if more users would adopt similar practices. My only question would be how do we validate that the Windows guests remain isolated from the host. Depending on the virtualization software that is an achievable task.

Imagine a world where users only ran the bare minimum software necessary for an atomically specific work task. It sounds like pure joy from my perspective.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by vijaybritto on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:05AM (#25844965)
Do you run all of these VMs on linux?
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by lmilcin on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:18AM (#25845066)
Yes.

I also have a bunch of other VMs. For example, I keep my toolchains for embedded development in separate VMs so that I can trust they still work years later when I need to do some quick correction to some project of mine. These have auto updates turned off. I hate when I want to quickly change something and program the device but first I have to investigate why the tool chain no longer works.

Not all of these VMs are active at the same time. I usually have 2 or 3 VMs active, some paused and most turned off.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by kstenerud on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:25AM (#25845112)
I do similar things. Everything I run is built on top of LXD or KVM so that it remains compatible across time and is not beholden to anything but the Linux kernel, with disk images backed up at key points of the installation process. All of the build scripts are housed at [1] and then I have a set of machine-specific scripts that leverage those to rebuild any of my virtual systems in a single command with no data loss. Press a button, walk away, and in half an hour I have a pristine system with everything I need installed and my data drive mounted.

Any time I'm working on a machine that was set up non-deterministically, I feel vulnerable...

[1] https://github.com/kstenerud/virtual-builders

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by zentiggr on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:35AM (#25846862)
This brings to mind, fondly, my gentoo days. Just never had time to continue to spend that much time controlling the config vs using it.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by codpiece on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:54AM (#25845832)
This is a great idea, thank you!
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by thejosh on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:35AM (#25845172)
I recently started playing around with libvirt/QEMU on Linux and was amazed how well the VMs work, especially when you have two video cards plugged in and can do PCI passthrough.

It's so seamless. I now run my Windows "VM" on that, and works fantastically. I have it installed to a separate SSD as well (I was curious if it would work) and performance is excellent.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by vijaybritto on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:46AM (#25846349)
Yeah I was watching a video[1] about QEMU vs virtual box comparison yesterday on youtube and the guy doing it found that the QEMU version was faster than his host machine in some cases. It was confusing!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKQfeUNTCE

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @05:59AM (#25844924)
It's one argument in favor of having the OS determine how software is in- and uninstalled, instead of delegating it to an application supplied by the developer.

I mean in theory on Mac you can just remove the .app file.

I would like the 'profile' files for an application to be a bit more obvious though, e.g. stored in /Users/<username>/Application Data/Adobe instead of the deeply nested and hidden-by-default Library folder.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by user3939382 on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:26AM (#25845121)
Yeah, Adobe actually sticks their numerous config files and background executables in about 6 different places in macOS, so true uninstall is only within reach of the technical and dedicated.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:13AM (#25846628)
That drives me batty, but they get away with it even on my machine because, well, they're Adobe.

But I think even people like me with 15 years of pictures in Lightroom are seriously eyeing the door. I'd LOVE to find something I could use at trust as well, but I also have little time to search, and Adobe isn't annoying me QUITE enough yet.

But they're already on the wrong side of the "delight/annoy" barrier, if you know what I mean.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by dlkinney on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:51PM (#25853477)
If you're a power user, then I'd strongly recommend RawTherapee. It's more clunky than Lightroom, but its features are on par with or better than Lightroom, far as quality and choice.

You'll probably have to spend some time playing with it to find your "look", but once you do, Lightroom can't come close.

That said, it's missing a great organization/sorting workflow and painted adjustments, so if you rely on the latter or expect the former in your RAW processor, it might not be for you. A fantastic (commercial) alternative is CaptureOne. It's the Rolls Royce far as I'm concerned. Strongly recommend you stay away from Darktable, because it's close enough to Lightroom (but not as good) that you'll get frustrated.

Hope this helps!

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:07PM (#25855268)
If it’s bad for workflow and sorting, it’s a nonstarter for me.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by sbuk on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:24AM (#25845107)
There are apps like App Delete that help there. Once installed, it can detect an app in the trash and remove the hidden parts too. That said, it would be helpful if this was built in...
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Daho0n on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:48AM (#25845277)
In theory you can remove the folder in Windows. It will leave crap behind but so will deleting .app on mac. Not much of a difference IMO. Both are broken by design.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:19AM (#25846685)
That's not quite true. If you delete an app from the app folder on a Mac, 99% of the time you'll get 100% of the binaries associated with the app. You'll leave behind inert configuration information in /Library and any relevant ~/Library folders, but that's all.

On Windows, binaries end up strewn all over the place, including C:\Windows, which is one reason that C:\Windows grows inexorably over time (even under 10) if you frequently install and uninstall software, and the only approved-by-MSFT approach to shrinking it is a wipe and reinstall.

Now, the Mac doesn't prevent installers from doing goofy stuff, or from dropping binaries more widely. VMWare, for example, does this, but VMWare is also doing something more elaborate than an Office app. Adobe does this, but that's Adobe being a jerk -- there's no technical reason they need to do it.

And anyway, you can easily go into the folders in /Library & etc to zap the leftover stuff if you want -- there's no Registry or anything that would cry foul. It's just that most people don't bother.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @02:39PM (#25850961)
> On Windows, binaries end up strewn all over the place, including C:\Windows, which is one reason that C:\Windows grows inexorably over time

Are you sure about this? I mean I know for a fact that it happens but in my experience this is rare. I very much doubt that it's enough to make any real difference to the total size of the Windows folder.

I PowerShell'ed through all exe-files and DLLs in C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System32 on my private computer ("188 programs installed" according to Control Panel) and I couldn't find anything that didn't look like Windows defaults (i.e. Microsoft stuff basically) or drivers (found lots of Intel, Logitech, etc. Some Apple).

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @03:44PM (#25851741)
Yes. It's an ongoing problem. It has to do with how Windows manages something called Side by Side (usually SxS).

We make Windows software. We install and uninstall a LOT. Windows folders on our text machines balloon to alarming sizes, at which point it's time for a new VM (or, if it's your laptop, it's time to wipe and start over).

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by SSLy on Thursday January 21, 2021 @05:42AM (#25857533)
Does refresh cleanup the rot, or you need a real reinstall?
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by RamRodification on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @04:27PM (#25852229)
Oh SxS. I thought that was for System stuff only.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by jjoonathan on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:46AM (#25846346)
There's a lot wrong with mobile, but one of the things they absolutely do right is giving you the tools to treat your apps like cattle. We need that on the desktop.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Blikkentrekker on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @05:59AM (#25844923)
> I don't know how we got to this state that we don't control our own basic processes and how they behave.

If the system be designed such that the task of uninstalling lies with the program itself rather than some other program then one never really did.

I understand this design not. I would assume that uninstalling the program means deleting some set of files and perhaps registry keys on Windows, or is there more to it?

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Causality1 on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:00AM (#25844935)
It's a race to the bottom. The more idiot-proof electronics become, the more widely they can be adopted. How do you make something idiot-proof? You treat the users like idiots. The more idiot users you have, the smaller the fraction that actually give a damn about anything beyond whether it turns on and browses the internet.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by 3np on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:48AM (#25845777)
Maybe you should give serious thought to Linux. I am not missing OS X or Windows one bit.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mstipetic on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:07AM (#25845943)
I'm really comfortable with Linux, but as I mentioned in another comment I find a lot of usability issues there as well, at least on laptops.

Maybe I'm just getting burned out on computers, but I'm really considering going rms-style with a desktop computer, an e-ink display with i3wm and sticking to text-only. I really think we're regressing in terms of tech and ux and am finding it less and less tolerable. In my day to day I'm dealing with go, k8s, elixir, js, vue, various deployment and monitoring solutions, etc, I don't want to fight just to keep a baseline OS functionality uncluttered.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by 3np on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:34AM (#25846212)
You don’t have to go full caveman. i3wm (I use xmonad), browser, terminal, and your favorite editor/IDE should do you good.

You only have all this software bothering you because you chose it over alternatives. (OK there are some cases where choices are forced upon us but I don’t see those in your examples)

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by unicornporn on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @04:14PM (#25852080)
But then you probably don't need the Creative Cloud apps for your daily work. That's the where the real challenge comes in.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by 3np on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @08:26PM (#25854218)
True. If I did I’d run them in a VM (Qubes?) it a dedicated host.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by 1MachineElf on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:31AM (#25848378)
I wish I had this capability on my Android phone. There are utilities like SuperFreezZ to force background apps to close, but the fact that one is necessary is an indicator that the OS itself is not designed for a user to control what is happening in the background.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by mrweasel on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @05:59AM (#25844922)
Can’t close Chrome either, because that will exit Google Chat as well.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by keyle on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:08AM (#25844982)
I can't imagine they don't have a meeting with 12 people around a huge table and no one says "but if we do X, we break Y".

Isn't that being professional?

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by pjc50 on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:16AM (#25845051)
The sort of manager that wants to bully the users into not uninstalling the product is also the sort of manager to bully the developers into doing it, even if they know it will break things.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by pmlnr on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:18AM (#25845063)
If you do that, you'll be labelled with "negative attitude" on your next evaluation. Been there, done that, and it wasn't even at Adobe.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:31AM (#25845155)
Being professional stopped counting a long time ago - look at what Google, Microsoft, Apple and most other big companies are doing. People are afraid to update but have little choice.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by Pxtl on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @10:33AM (#25847579)
How many times have people typed passwords into something dreadfully insecure because of a focus stolen at an inopportune time?
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ChrisRR on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:11AM (#25845472)
You said it yourself before you even started the list: OSX

Apple are one of the biggest offenders of "Don't you dare do what you want with your device. We'll tell you what you want to do"

Unfortunately now OSX is going in the same direction of the users not owning their hardware/software as with iOS. And many users get sucked into it because it looks pretty

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by davweb on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:44AM (#25845751)
If Adobe was good OSX citizen you could uninstall any of their apps by dragging them into the Trash. OSX has always been great for making it easy to uninstall apps.

It's because they use a custom installer that dumps code all over the filesystem that makes Adobe apps are difficult to uninstall.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:22AM (#25846722)
>Unfortunately now OSX is going in the same direction of the users not owning their hardware/software as with iOS

FUD.

The only restrictions on MacOS are reasonable defaults to prevent unsigned, non-app-store programs from running. Given that there are many more users like my 80 year old mother than there HN-types, this is FINE, since those settings are easy to turn off.

Windows, btw, does the same thing on home versions -- except its "S Mode" is WAY more fiddly to get rid of, and once turned off cannot be turned back on.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by xodice on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:58AM (#25847127)
Not true in the slightest. You can disable (the sane IMO) defaults and run anything on macOS to your hearts desire.

macOS is nothing like iOS WRT apps you can install and run.

Turning off Gatekeeper is literally a single terminal command. (sudo spctl --master-disable)

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ChrisRR on Thursday January 21, 2021 @07:02AM (#25858018)
And how many average computer users even know what a terminal is, let alone have ever used it
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by xodice on Thursday January 21, 2021 @08:30AM (#25858581)
I personally think if you cannot run that simple command and don't know what Terminal.app is then the defaults are correct for you. For power users you can make macOS as open as you want is all I was getting at.

Again, just my personal opinion.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:02AM (#25845390)
Luckily I run Windows and experience no such issues. I'm in complete control of my computer. Downloaded a program to disable all spying and get rid of all annoyances with just one click of a button. You can't do that with Apple or Android.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by modo_mario on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:46AM (#25845764)
I'm not entirely sure if you're not being ironic or not but anyway. Windows has a habit of undoing such changes with seemingly random updates and kind of reaches a point where if you really want to get and keep complete control and keep up with the updates you end up doing more tweaking than a competent mainstream linux user has to fix up initial kinks like getting bluetooth to work with everything or running the occasional non-supported software.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Thursday January 21, 2021 @06:35AM (#25857846)
I get updates every few months, after installing them I click the button in the program again, usually nothing changes, all my privacy settings remain intact. I understand you have been conditioned to think MS bad G$$gle good, but Windows gives you much more control and freedom than your Apple or G$$gle operating system.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by modo_mario on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @03:44AM (#25913736)
>I understand you have been conditioned to think MS bad G$$gle good

That's a lot of assumptions you're making there bud.

>Windows gives you much more control and freedom than your Apple or G$$gle operating system.

But I run Linux and Windows.

Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by ubermonkey on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @09:23AM (#25846735)
You've GOT to be joking.
Re:Can't uninstall Adobe apps without an account (2018) by whalesalad on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:40AM (#25845728)
Honestly it sounds like you need to learn how to operate your machine. These are all really solvable problems.

The process to eliminate items from startup is quite straightforward. You can do it in system preferences under your user startup items area - or wipe them from the CLI.