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Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by b0rsuk on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @12:56PM (#25765600)
Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper.

Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by xvedejas on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:52PM (#25766372)
It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by carlmr on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:18PM (#25766718)
>Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors

The trend seems to be that we get only a little bit of extra utility out of a lot of extra hardware performance.

When the developer upgrades their PC it's easier for them to not notice performance issues. This creates the situation where every few years you need to buy a new PC to do the things you always did.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by philsnow on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:08PM (#25767302)
> The trend seems to be that we get only a little bit of extra utility out of a lot of extra hardware performance.

"hardware giveth, and software taketh away"

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by _0ffh on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:14PM (#25768684)
Nice! Another (slightly more pessimistic) one is "Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster".
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by deepnotderp on Thursday January 14, 2021 @12:20AM (#25772433)
Andy Giveth, Bill Taketh

Andy Grove and Bill gates

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by akiselev on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:33PM (#25766893)
Is that the case for our highly centralized clouds? No one's putting a liquid nitrogen cooled desktop in their office so this type of hardware would be owned by companies who are financially incentivized to drive down the overhead costs of commoditized functionality like networking, data replication and storage, etc. leaving just inefficient developer logic which I assume is high value enough to justify it.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by root-z on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:40PM (#25766981)
It's quite common in the cloud industry to trade hardware for shorter development cycle these days too. I think that's because there is still very high growth in the sector and companies all want to be the first offering feature X. As cloud services become more mature I expect people will be more cost sensitive. Though when that will happen I cannot say.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by nicoburns on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @07:24PM (#25770026)
I think it's largely because deceloper time is so expensive. Hardware seems cheap in comparison in many contexts.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by avmich on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:31PM (#25766867)
I'm sure a lot of developers upgrade their PCs (they were called workstations at a time) because of material problems - keyboards getting mechanically worse, and laptops can't easily get keyboard fixed, screens getting dead pixels, sockets getting loose, hard-to-find batteries getting less charge, and maybe some electronics degradation.

Another reason is upgrades to software, which maintain general bloat, and which is hard to control; new hardware is easier. That's however is very noticeable.

On top of that, just "better" hardware - say, in a decade one can have significantly better screen, more cores and memory, faster storage; makes easier for large software tasks (video transcoding, big rebuilds of whole toolchains and apps, compute-hungry apps like ML...)

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ryukafalz on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:01PM (#25767223)
>laptops can't easily get keyboard fixed

This is a frustrating part of recent laptops, but it doesn't have to be this way - my X230's keyboard is removable with a few screws.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ganzuul on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:33PM (#25767588)
So by dropping support for old CPUs, the Linux kernel burns a bridge. That conversation makes more sense now.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by thebean11 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:28PM (#25766833)
If the developer doesn't notice the performance issues, maybe they move on to the next thing more quickly and get more done overall?

I'm not sure if that's the case, but it may be we aren't looking for utility in the right places.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by winter_blue on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:23PM (#25766776)
> Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too

I have two points to comment on this matter.

Point 1: The only reason I would worry or be concerned about it is if we are using terribly-inefficient programming languages. There are languages (that need not be named) which are either 3x, 4x, 5x, 10x, or even 40x more inefficient than a language that has a performant JIT, or that targets native code. (Even JIT languages like JavaScript as still a lot less efficient because of dynamic typing. Also, in some popular complied-to-native languages, programmers tend to less efficient data structures, which results in lower performance as well.)

Point 2: If the inefficiency arises out of more actual computation being done, that's a different story, and I AM TOTALLY A-OK with it. For instance, if Adobe Creative Suite uses a lot more CPU (and GPU) in general even though it's written in C++, that is likely because it's providing more functionality. I think even a 10% improvement in overall user experience and general functionality is worth increased computation. (For example, using ML to augment everything is wonderful, and we should be happy to expend more processing power for it.)

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by john_minsk on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:25AM (#25772843)
Both are important and 1 can be even more useful. Use 1 to easier build very complex systems. Once they are working and you are selling them - optimize. Without#1 you can't get #2
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by moosebear847 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:37PM (#25767628)
In the future, I don't see why there's anything holding us back from splitting a bunch of atoms and having tons of cheap energy.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by tsimionescu on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:28AM (#25773275)
Nuclear fission has well-known drawbacks and risks that are fundemantal, they will never be engineered away (risk of catastrophic explosion, huge operating costs, risk of nuclear waste leakage, risk of nuclear weapon proliferation). Why do you think the future will be significantly different from the present in this regard?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by moosebear847 on Thursday January 14, 2021 @04:56AM (#25774406)
These risks will most likely only reduce over time as our science and knowledge develops, barring a world-affecting mistake or war. If we can make a ton of energy, we can do many other things like launching the waste into outer space, and having a positive ROI by making more energy than it cost.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by layoutIfNeeded on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:08PM (#25765771)
>Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper.

So like 2009 compared to 2021? Based on that, I'd say even more inefficient webshit.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:52PM (#25766380)
Considering that many modern interfaces are somehow less responsive than ones written over 20 years ago even when running those programs on period hardware, I feel certain that you are right.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by qayxc on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @07:53PM (#25770274)
This is a very complex topic and there's a bunch of reasons for that.

And no, software efficiency isn't even the main factor. Not even close.

Just a few pointers: polling on peripherals instead of interrupts (i.e. USB vs. PS/2 and DIN) introducing input lag, software no longer running in ring-0 while being the sole process that owns all the hardware, concurrent processes and context switches, portability (and the required layers of abstraction and indirection), etc.

It's a bit cheap to blame developers while at the same time taking for granted that you can even do what you can do with modern hard- and software.

Everything comes at a price and even MenuetOS [1] will have worse input lag and be less responsive than an Apple II, simply because you'll likely have USB keyboard and mouse and an LCD monitor connected to it.

[1] http://menuetos.net

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Thursday January 14, 2021 @12:16AM (#25772399)
Apple II? I'm talking about things like VS6 vs modern VS. Even when performing the same tasks, which means modern VS has no reason to be doing more work than VS6, the modern one is less responsive. There are several videos on youtube demonstrating the dramatic difference.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by qayxc on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:26PM (#25781048)
Well 20-ish years ago when I was working with VS6, it ran like dog shit on contemporary hardware.

Big projects would pretty much kill it and the occasional crash was to be expected.

Sure, firing up VS6 on more modern hardware let it fly by comparison, but then again its features paled in comparison to those available with modern VS.

On the other hand, I don't use VS anymore, since VSCode is all I need and runs faster than VS6 back then (even on my 5 year old mid-range laptop) so no complains there.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by throwaway2048 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @10:22PM (#25771468)
I don't think laggy electron apps have much to do with usb devices and ring 0.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by nicoburns on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @07:31PM (#25770090)
Some things have improved a lot. Remember how long it took to boot a 2009 PC. I suspect if hardware perfromance stagnates then software optimisation will develop again.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by qayxc on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @08:02PM (#25770353)
Counter example: a C64 booted pretty much instantly back in 1983 ;)

You could load and start an entire game on that thing (albeit from a ROM cartridge) in less time than a 2000-era PC took to just POST :D

So PCs were a regression in performance in that regard compared to 1980s home computers and micros.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ajuc on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:37AM (#25773337)
It booted instantly and then you waited 15 minutes to play pac-man.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by gpderetta on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @09:26PM (#25771059)
I remember veeeery long load times from tape...
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jayd16 on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:29AM (#25772880)
20 years ago IS a 2000-era PC.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by chopin on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:21AM (#25774627)
I have a cheap Dell laptop from 2009 which boots in ca. 30 sec. A recent Linux Mint.

Compared to my recent company laptop which needs at least 2 min. Even more before I can work productively. For Windows 10.

It's definitely not dependent on hardware. Even not on functionality (I do the same on both machines).

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by nicoburns on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:57AM (#25774899)
Swap your OS's and you'll still notice an improvement in the hardware. Windows has always been slow. SSDs have made even windows fast to boot on every recent laptop I've used though.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jayd16 on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:26AM (#25772851)
20 years ago, Windows 98 dominated. That was already well into the slow, time sliced, modern era.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by xxpor on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:22PM (#25767488)
But it probably took 80x less time to develop said software.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by layoutIfNeeded on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:54PM (#25768451)
I'd doubt that.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Jweb_Guru on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:08PM (#25767299)
Processing power is not 80x cheaper now than it was in 2009 unless you can do all your computation on a GPU.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jnsie on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:11PM (#25765833)
Anyone remember Java 3D? 'cause I'm imagining Java 3D!
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by vidanay on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:17PM (#25765905)
Java 11D™ It goes to eleven!
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by sago on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:26PM (#25766032)
I don't understand your reference. It seems negative, but it's hard imho to go down on the success of Minecraft. Or am I misunderstanding you?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by zinekeller on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:30PM (#25766099)
Minecraft (obviously the Java edition) actually uses some native libraries (LWJGL) so I don't know if Minecraft is a good comparison.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by systemvoltage on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:11PM (#25765830)
Javascript emulator in Javascript!
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by lkbm on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:29PM (#25766840)
Gary Bernhardt's presentation on the "history" of Javascript from 1995 to 2035 is hilarious and seems like something you'd enjoy: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death...

It takes things way beyond simply "emulating Javascript in Javascript", yet is presented so well that you barely notice the transition from current (2014) reality to a comically absurd future.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by dmingod666 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:31PM (#25766121)
Do you mean the "eval()" function?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by tsimionescu on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:36AM (#25773331)
No, they mean writing the eval () function in pure JavaScript.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by dmingod666 on Thursday January 14, 2021 @08:25AM (#25776002)
Wow
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:31PM (#25766106)
Solid state physics begets both cryogenic technology and cryocooling technology. I wouldn't write off the possibility of making an extremely small cryocooler quite yet. Maybe a pile of solid state heat pumps could do it.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:42PM (#25766227)
This is true, but the fact that heat absorption scales with the surface area is pretty brutal for tiny cooled objects.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Calloutman on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:56PM (#25766429)
Not really. You just have the whole package instead a vacuum casing.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:38PM (#25766950)
Really. Vacuum casing is not even close to sufficient to set heat absorption to zero because of thermal radiation.

And you can't just make the walls reflective once the cold object gets smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. The colder the object, the longer that wavelength.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Calloutman on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:08PM (#25767977)
The way it works is that the entire assembly is in a vacuum. It kinda has to be as any gas which touches it will instantly condense to it or freeze to it. You then have a dual cryostat of liquid helium and liquid nitrogen cooling down the assembly (within the vacuum). The helium and nitrogen cryostat also have a vacuum shield. The nitrogen (liquid at 77K) is a sacraficial coolant which is far cheaper than liquid helium (liquid at 4K) that you need to get to these temperatures. Your're right that thermal radiation is an issue so you have to be careful with the placement of any windows or mirrors around the device.

Souce. I have a PhD in physics where I used equipment cooled to 4K.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:28PM (#25768195)
Great, then we both have physics PhDs, and you'll know that none of that equipment has, or easily could be, sufficiently miniaturized, which is the topic of discussion ("extremely small cryocooler"). You can't put nested closed dewers of liquid nitrogen and helium on a O(1 mm^2) microchip, and the reason is exactly what I said: it will warm up too fast.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Calloutman on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:16PM (#25768706)
Ah, you're totally right. I misread the OP. Sorry.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:31PM (#25768888)
No problem :)
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by extropy on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:54PM (#25768450)
What's wrong with attaching said microchip to a piece of copper for increased size? Genuinely curious.

To be useful in a data center you could cool a slab of copper the size of a fridge and surface mount thousands of chips on it.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:35PM (#25768924)
The topic is cooling small objects so that personal electronics (e.g., your phone) can compete with datacenters. Cold at scale (i.e., in datacenters) is comparatively easy.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by nicoburns on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @07:27PM (#25770061)
What kind of wavelengths are we looking at for the kind of temperatures used in this article?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @07:57PM (#25770316)
About 700 micrometers, almost a millimeter. That's from applying Wien's displacement law to the boiling point of Helium.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:01PM (#25766503)
Don't forget about thermal radiation.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:52PM (#25766381)
Heat conduction also scales with thermal conductivity, which is another thing that advances in solid state can bring us.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:36PM (#25766938)
This doesn't change the fact that, for any degree of heat conductivity achieved smaller packages will be hard to keep cold than large ones.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:15PM (#25767382)
It also doesn't change the fact that smaller devices are harder to put wires on - but they're both polynomial scaling factors that other polynomial scaling paradigms could cancel out.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by jessriedel on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:30PM (#25768219)
The topic of discussion is datacenter vs. an extremely small cryocooler. What is the other polynomial scaling paradigm that would cancel out the datacenter's advantage?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by whatshisface on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @08:46PM (#25770736)
The effectiveness of thermal insulators and heat pumps. If they make the cost difference negligible then other costs will dominate. We're talking about future decades of material science advancements here, a lot is possible.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by api on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:28PM (#25766070)
I don't see an impassible rift. Probably at first, but supercooling something very small is something that could certainly be productized if there is demand for it.

I can see demand in areas like graphics. Imagine real-time raytracing at 8K at 100+ FPS with <10ms latency.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by adamredwoods on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:32PM (#25766872)
Cyptocurrency demands.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by hacknat on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:39PM (#25766207)
> Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper.

Just wait 10 years?

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Jweb_Guru on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:08PM (#25767294)
Not sure if you noticed, but Moore's Law died quite awhile ago now.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ipsum2 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @06:04PM (#25769238)
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by marcosdumay on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @08:12PM (#25770432)
Moore's law is bout the most economic die, not about always more expensive top of the line.

If you take those out, there is a very clear stagnation on that graphic.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Jweb_Guru on Thursday January 14, 2021 @10:41AM (#25777645)
Moore's Law was originally about the number of transistors per unit area and that has absolutely stalled. They are comparing 72 and 64 core processors to single core ones to try to make the claim that "transistors per chip" are doubling in accordance with Moore's Law (which they still aren't--you can plot a line through and see that we are falling short of linear on a log scale). Are you really arguing that simply making microprocessors larger, ignoring cost and density, is an improvement in processing power (especially for the average end user, who is on a machine with only a handful of cores)?

Look at the actual transistor sizes. In 2009 we were at 32 nm. We're now in 2021, so if transistor sizes had kept halving every two years we would be at 0.5 nm. Clearly, we are not anywhere close to that--we're off by a factor of 10, and that's only with the very latest and greatest manufacturing processes that almost no consumer chips use (not to mention that the 5nm process used by AMD is not the same as a 5nm process used by Intel). As the article itself notes:

> Microprocessor architects report that semiconductor advancement has slowed industry-wide since around 2010, below the pace predicted by Moore's law.

Of course transistor companies are happy to claim that they are secretly keeping pace, but in terms of commercially available microprocessors it is unquestionably false. Anyone using the "doubling every two years" approximation to decide how much more computing power is available now than 10 years ago, or how much more will be available 10 years in the future, is not going to arrive at correct figures.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by grkvlt on Thursday January 14, 2021 @11:44AM (#25778529)
Moore's law was stated originally as the doublinkd of the number of transistors per integrated circuit per year, later modified by him to a doublingevery two years. Reading the article where he first proposed the rule (cited in the wikipedia article linked in parent) this confirms that definition, as opposed to transistors per unit area or other measures.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Jweb_Guru on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:36PM (#25780239)
No, it was per area per economic unit originally, and the definition was changed in ways that don't make a lot of sense. Clearly the performance of a 72-core machine has little relevance to personal computing.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ebalit on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:26AM (#25789143)
Not commenting on Moore's law, but I don't see how the last part is true when GPU have become a main component of personal computing. They are in fact becoming more and more important with the need for AI inference and always more demanding rendering tasks (both in resolution and frame rate).
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Jweb_Guru on Friday January 15, 2021 @09:03AM (#25791020)
The vast majority of software isn't written for the GPU. That's still true today, and it will likely be true in ten years as well. Unless we reach a point where that changes (and most software can fit its restricted paradigm), we should compare apples to apples. If we were talking solely about GPU performance, I would be more inclined to agree with claims about "80x more processing power than 10 years ago" etc, though.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ebalit on Tuesday January 19, 2021 @06:47AM (#25832503)
Apple GUI frameworks enable them to rely heavily on the GPU, and the smooth and slick GUI are definitely a big part of their value proposition. While I agree that the business logic of most apps aren't using the GPU for compute, I think most app will have a rendering side where it is important.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by mcosta on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:43PM (#25767699)
For single thread performance.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by anfilt on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:52PM (#25769101)
Moore's laws has nothing to do with how fast a chip is. It deals with how many transistors you can fit in a given area.

This can equate to a faster chip because you now can do more at once. However, we hit the frequency limits a while ago for silicon. Particularly, parasitic capacitance is a huge limiting factor. A capacitor will start to act like a short circuit the faster your clock is.

Moore's law has a little more life, although the rate seems to have slowed. However, at the end of the day it can't go one forever you can only make something so small. One gets to a point they have so few atoms to constructing something useful becomes impossible. Like current transistors are finFETs because the third dimension gives them more atoms to reduce leakage current, compared to the relatively planar designs on older process nodes. However, these finFets still take up less area on a die.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by john_minsk on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:33AM (#25772907)
Since it can't go forever - it is time to update its definition to reflect what we are doing with computing now - adding cores and improving energy efficiency. No?
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by anfilt on Thursday January 14, 2021 @03:39PM (#25782152)
adding more cores requires moores law. When we hit the end the only to get more cores will be either larger dies or more dies.

Moore's law does help with efficiency to some degree, small transistors generally require less power to switch. However, most the power is last due to the miles of wiring in a modern chip when running at such high clock cycles. Again, it's the parasitic capacitance.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by twobitshifter on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @01:49PM (#25766336)
Jevons Paradox would predict that we’ll end up using even more energy on computing.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by mailslot on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:37PM (#25767635)
It’ll all be wasted. When gasoline prices plummet, everyone buys 8mpg SUVs. If power & performance gets cheaper, it’ll be wasted. Blockchain in your refrigerator.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ffhhj on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @05:59PM (#25769169)
> Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper.

UI's will have physically based rendering and interaction.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by xwdv on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:21PM (#25766759)
As processing power cheapens, programmers will settle for lazy and inefficient code for everyday consumer applications. It will be easier to be a programmer, because you can get away with writing shitty code. So wages will fall and the prestige of being a software developer wanes. The jobs requiring truly elite skill and understanding will dwindle and face fierce competition for their high pay.

Before this happens, I recommend having your exit strategy for the industry, living off whatever profits you made working as a developer during the early 21st century.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by vlovich123 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:51PM (#25767115)
I’m less pessimistic. Even if CPUs are 10x faster than they are, that still opens up more opportunities than what can be “absorbed” by less efficient coding/masses. There will always be demands for eking out more of the available processing/compute power and doing so will always be a difficult task. For example, today you can edit large scale videos in real-time and view various movie-quality SFX applied real-time on a consumer desktop. More computing power = more ability to do things cheaply that were in feasible/impossible before. You’re limited by your imagination more than anything.

What’s truly more of a threat is AI-aided programming if that ever becomes a thing. Again, I’m not worried. The gap between telling an AI “do something that makes me $1 billion dollars” and “write a function that has properties x/y/s” or “do this large refactor for me and we’ll work together on any ambiguous cases”, is enormous. So you’ll always have a job - you’ll just be able to do things you couldn’t in the past (it’s questionable whether an AI can be built that generates programs from vague/poorly defined specs from product or even that generates those specs in the first place.

As an obvious counter example to your theory, we have CPUs that are probably 10000x more powerful than in 1980 (actually more if you consider they have processing technologies that didn’t even exist back then like GPUs and SIMD). The software industry is far larger and devs make more individually.

Technically SIMDs and GPUs existed back then but in a much more immature form, being more powerful, cheaper and widespread today than what was available in the 80s.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by no_flags on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:42PM (#25767003)
Processing power has cheapened exponentially for the last 50 years (Moore's law). I am skeptical that a continuation of this trend will drive a fall in wages.

In my own experience performance optimization is an important but infrequent part of my job. There are other skills an elite programmer brings to the table like the ability to build a mental model of a complex system and reason about it. If downward pressure on wages occurs I think it will be for another reason.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Enginerrrd on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:48PM (#25767079)
I think in general you are right, however, there will certainly be sectors where it will be a lot easier to just throw it at a wall of computation than pay someone to think about it.

But architecting complex systems so that they are maintainable, scalable, and adaptable... there's not gonna be enough cheap computation to solve that problem and omit top talent for a long time.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by Fronzie on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:25PM (#25766803)
Energy cost and thermal cooling place restrictions on the computations. C++, with all it flaws, stays in use because it does give control over performance trade-offs.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by tsimionescu on Thursday January 14, 2021 @02:56AM (#25773465)
Hardware efficiency is only relevant for programming effort today in a few industries, and even there, only in a few specific applications.

If you gave me a processor that could run instructions instantly, my product's release would at best be brought forward 1-2 weeks.

The largest efforts in programming are to do with translating requirements into code. Efficiency is a part of that, and there are obviously problems where it dominates, but there are many other difficulties even when it isn't.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by gameswithgo on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:39PM (#25766956)
did you write this in 1980?