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Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by ziddoap on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:17PM (#25735896)
No specific comments to the breach... But, I couldn't help but chuckle at We Take Your Security Seriously™.

Why does every company, after demonstrating a lack of security, like to say this exact line? I can just imagine the PR person hovering over the shoulder of whoever authored the post yelling "make sure you tell the victims of this breach that we care!"

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by kenniskrag on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:46PM (#25736514)
> That phenomenon is called counter-signaling, which I first ran into listening to Dan Jurafsky making the point that if a menu uses the word "fresh", its a low-brow restaurant. A high-brow restaurant would never use the word "fresh" -- the freshness is implicit in the other signals. https://kelley.iu.edu/riharbau/cs-randfinal.pdf

source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25713050

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by jiveturkey on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:02PM (#25736881)
Italian franchise[0] restaurant in Sacramento has this huge neon sign in their window: "health inspected". Neon. It's just that one instance of the store. Not that I've seen them all, but never seen that signage in their other stores.

[0] Maybe not technically a franchise. Not sure. There are a bunch in California.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by emmelaich on Monday January 11, 2021 @10:50PM (#25742043)
There's a bar near Union Square, SF, which has a sign including the words

> .. never had any safety issue so far

It's the 'so far' which really tickles me.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by MasterScrat on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:46PM (#25737742)
Reminds me of a restaurant in Goa, India, which proudly advertises: "Vegetables are cleaned with clean water before use!"
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by jkaplowitz on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:32PM (#25741510)
In India and many other less developed countries, proper culinary hygiene is very far from universal, and contaminated water is common. It's less absurd of a statement than it would be in the US.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by Daho0n on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @05:28AM (#25744858)
Well, it might be a sign seen in a restaurant in Flint, Michigan :)
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by KirillPanov on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:38PM (#25741550)
Well, it's not like Sacramento has a Ganges River...
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by aksss on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @03:04AM (#25743731)
That’s cool, I read his book, The Language of Food, and think about these things all the time when reading menus now; and then like an annoying pedant, nudge my wife and point it all out.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by throwaway5752 on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:39PM (#25736363)
It's impossible to secure yourself against a devoted persistent threat group over the long term. The asymmetry of effort is not tractable to overcome.

So they can take your security seriously, but they will be hacked, or they have already.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by ziddoap on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:47PM (#25736534)
I don't think my post argues, or even attempts to argue, against your point.

It was a light-hearted jest at the fact that this exact line is in every single breach notification I have read for the past few years.

The more serious point I was alluding at was not "just don't get breached", it was that the "we care" line rings hollow after the 250th time reading it.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by throwaway5752 on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:50PM (#25736619)
My misread, apologies. I think the "we care" is a dodge around the reality that most are uncomfortable with, which is, "we make your data safe as possible but we will likely be hacked and you should compartmentalize your personal data accordingly with that expectation". But I am no good with marketing.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by pseudalopex on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:33PM (#25737511)
Most companies choose to collect data they don't have to.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by luser007 on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:03PM (#25736905)
They put all of their users eggs in one basket in the cloud. That makes for a very interesting target.

They could have not done that. The users were probably unaware that their data was even placed on the cloud servers of some third party.

Ubiquiti used to be cool. They've taken a nose dive in recent years in several ways: Firmware upgrade suddenly including telemetry by default, forcing people to use their NVR appliance instead of installing their software on their private servers, etc.

Had Ubiquiti not moved people to "cloud solutions" an attacker would have to attack millions of peoples equipment. Now he only had to attack one providers network.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by unethical_ban on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:25PM (#25737344)
I heard rumors about the telemetry thing, but that is usually an overhyped concern - unless it is sending flow logs or something.

When did they stop allowing people to use a private server for central management? I see Unifi still has a network controller.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by luser007 on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:44PM (#25737712)
Sorry for being obtuse - it wasn't my intention.

I'm thinking of "Unifi Video" that is going out (EOL announced six months ago), where you could either buy their appliance OR download an official .deb package and install the NVR software on your own server.

They replace that with "Unifi Protect" that comes ONLY as an NVR appliance. No more .deb packages. It also requires you to buy one of their other products (Cloud Key 2), IIRC.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by sounds on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:41PM (#25736400)
I think it is possible to secure yourself against a devoted, persistent threat group.

I think it's expensive, but possible.

Do you have data to back up your claim that no one, ever has ever successfully remained secure?

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by swirepe on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:46PM (#25736512)
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by not2b on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:44PM (#25736460)
No one could possibly prove this kind of negative.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by snoshy on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:55PM (#25736719)
Why not? All you have to do is point to one particular company whose systems have not been verifiably breached after having resisted actual attempts.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by WaitWaitWha on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:36PM (#25737576)
> one particular company whose systems have not been verifiably breached

The unknown unknown. How can you be sure all the "resisted actual attempts" been even detected?

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by not2b on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:59PM (#25740125)
You've changed the requirement. To prove a company hasn't been breached, you'd also have to prove that there hasn't been a breach that hasn't been detected (so breached, but not verified). Any given target might already be quietly owned by some state actor or corrupt insider with allies on the outside.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by justinclift on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:17AM (#25743062)
Several places probably would have met those goals...

... right up until the SolarWinds hack became public.

The point being, provable "we've never been breached" seems to have a way of turning out to be wrong. :/

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by imoverclocked on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:15PM (#25737146)
Challenge accepted?

Just because known attempts have failed doesn’t mean the unknown ones have too.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by someguydave on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:22PM (#25737308)
most attacker groups would be unlikely to share that result
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by rodgerd on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:10PM (#25737048)
What evidence do you have that anyone has?
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by ikiris on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:17PM (#25737192)
When was the last time you heard of a google user data breach?
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by harrierpigeon on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:59PM (#25740121)
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by rodgerd on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:49PM (#25737789)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2018/10/09/goog...

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/11/googl...

Maybe you should know literally anything about the topic at hand before making sweeping assertions? I realise that's asking a lot here at HN, but it would improve the site a lot.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by jiveturkey on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:00PM (#25736850)
The real genius in the announcement is, "data hosted by a third party provider". Absolutely irrelevant, but subtly implying that the error was the fault of a third party.

That will be the new norm in these kinds of annoucements, I'm sure.

Just like SolarWinds dropping "Team City", saying "no evidence" of a breach of it. So why mention it at all?

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by hsbauauvhabzb on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:47PM (#25736543)
They opted to TELL people about it which is a good indicator. I’m sure there’s many companies who choose not to (which may be against the law). It’s also HR spin on the topic, but iirc ubiquity offer bug bounties on a range of devices they sell so there’s at least some truth to the spin.

‘We know they breached but don’t know what they did’ is an interesting statement. One POV is that they didn’t have sufficient logging and segregation to determine how widespread the breach was, the other is that they’re not arrogant enough to think their SIEM adequately captures everything.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by jlgaddis on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:18PM (#25737214)
> They opted to TELL people about it which is a good indicator.

Aren't they based in California which, if I remember correctly, as a law requiring them to notify the victims of a data breach?

Would they still have chosen to in the absence of such a law? We'll never know, I guess.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by ziddoap on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:51PM (#25736639)
I'm unsure how your statement is meant as a response to mine. I obviously agree that it is a good indicator that they notified customers of a breach.
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by mirthflat83 on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:41PM (#25736408)
I mean, should they say that they don’t care about your security?
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by ziddoap on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:48PM (#25736568)
Weird polar opposite stance.

No, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying don't put platitudes in a breach notification.

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by kenniskrag on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:48PM (#25736553)
they should tell me, what they are going to improve. :)
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by BHSPitMonkey on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:18PM (#25737201)
It rolls off the tongue better than "We now wish to begin taking your security seriously"
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by rawoke083600 on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @06:03AM (#25745206)
"make sure you tell the victims of this breach that we care!"

HAHA ! Too True !

Reminds me of getting "punished" as a child...

Parent: "Now remember this will hurt me more than it will hurt you"

PS. No child were abused in the making of the above comment. My parents were/is excellent !

Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by dreamcompiler on Monday January 11, 2021 @11:41PM (#25742375)
I'm sure it's also the case that your call is important to them. Isn't that what companies always say while making you wait on hold for 45 minutes?
Re:Ubiquiti Networks Breach by aksss on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @03:06AM (#25743743)
Along with the stock, “due to COVID-19, our service sucks right now”.