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Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by kortilla on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @10:44AM (#25570808)
> Apple spokesman Josh Rosenstock said the company has confirmed that Lens Technology has not received any labor transfers of Uighur workers from Xinjiang. He said Apple earlier this year ensured that none of its other suppliers are using Uighur labor transferred from Xinjiang.

>“Apple has zero tolerance for forced labor,” Rosenstock said. “Looking for the presence of forced labor is part of every supplier assessment we conduct, including surprise audits. These protections apply across the supply chain, regardless of a person’s job or location. Any violation of our policies has immediate consequences, including possible business termination. As always, our focus is on making sure everyone is treated with dignity and respect, and we will continue doing all we can to protect workers in our supply chain.”

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by daenz on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @10:51AM (#25570904)
Now post the next 3 paragraphs after those quotes.

Apple is actively doing business in a location where slavery is frequently occurring, while pretending that their audits are thorough and comprehensive so that their hands appear clean. But the fact that they are playing whack-a-mole with constant slavery reports should be evidence enough that they know exactly what they're doing: they're trying to turn a profit while turning a blind eye to abuses, so long as they don't happen too publicly, and don't directly implicate them. This is wrong.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by simonh on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:01AM (#25571048)
It looks like it may well be going that way, sure, but making this about Apple is headline bait. It's about China.

The fact is you can't buy a single thing made in China and be sure it isn't implicated in this in some way. Think of the last few things you bought that were manufactured or sourced some parts in China. Can you honestly say the manufacturer audits their supply chain with the same rigour? At least Apple is trying to keep their supply chain clean, but ultimately that may prove to be impossible.

If that's the case vilifying Apple for it won't fix it, the only way to fix it will be to shun Chinese products completely, but that's going to be a very painful and difficult process for more people than just Apple. Take Fairphone for example, those guys work really hard to do the right thing as much as possible, but they have dozens and dozens of suppliers in China some of them indirect. In their own literature they point out they can't answer for every single supplier. This is a really tough problem.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by hobs on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:09AM (#25571156)
So we shouldnt shame the richest company on earth for using slave labor because its about "china"?

If anyone has leverage, its Apple, so actually yes its a way to start fixing the problem.

There's a simple way to keep slave labor out of your supply chain, stop doing business with people who are fine with that, not "performing audits to find out they are using slave labor again so we switched!"

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by kortilla on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:19PM (#25572927)
>So we shouldnt shame the richest company on earth for using slave labor because its about "china"?

No, that’s a convenient misdirection to avoid real change. By making it “Apple is evil”, people just switch to another phone manufactured in China and pat themselves on the back for doing absolutely nothing.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by simonh on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:21AM (#25571308)
How do you know which supplier is "fine with that", and how do you anticipate a supplier before they decide to change over to using illegitimate labour?

Auditing suppliers, verifying supply chains and switching away from cheaters is one way to address the issue. Another is to not do business in China at all.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:36AM (#25571534)
Not to defend Apple specifically - but do you really think it's just Apple?

Maximising downward pressure on wages - as an economist might label this - is the natural, predictable, desired outcome of globalisation.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by WillPostForFood on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:23AM (#25571340)
It would be easier to just not do any business with any company in Xinjiang, but is that actually punishing the Uighur community who aren’t part of the forced labor? It might be better to focus the pressure on China as a whole, and at the international level. Or it might be more effective to punish companies in Beijing because they have the ear of the government.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by simonh on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:30AM (#25571455)
This isn't in Xinjiang, it's suppliers in other parts of China that apparently had Uighur labourers sent out to them.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by buckminster on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:29PM (#25572212)
The labour is not transferred from Xinjiang because the factory in question is in Xinjiang.

This is a masterpiece of weasel-wording.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by orange_joe on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @10:56AM (#25570986)
I don't believe that quoting a PR spokesperson is a meaningful response, Apple is obviously a biased party in this investigation. Moreover, Apple has opposed the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act which would penalize companies with forced labor in their supply chains[1]. It also has a history of similar accusations with regards to their LCD screens [2] and their uniforms [3]. All of this is completely ignoring their history with foxconn and other suppliers that routinely abuse their employees without compelling their labor through outright force. Apple might say that they care about this issue, but its clear that their supply chain is setup to take advantage of poor workers from 3rd world countries at a minimum.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/23/anti-forced-labour-bill-apple... [2] https://9to5mac.com/2020/03/02/apple-suppliers-implicated-in... [3] https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/10/apple-store-staff-t-shirts/

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Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by corty on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:38AM (#25571569)
Truth hurts. Voting on HN does not judge the quality of a text, it often just point out whether people like it for various reasons.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by esarbe on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:52AM (#25571741)
They used to, it was the reason I'm exclusively on HN..
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by rasz on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:48PM (#25572456)
> supplier assessment we conduct, including surprise audits. These protections apply across the supply chain

like in India?

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by curtis3389 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @10:53AM (#25570936)
They have a zero tolerance in their particular factories, but is China just shuffling workers around to make sure they don't send the slaves to Apple factories?

Apple is still making products in Hitler's Germany because the prices are too good to say no. Just because they aren't using the concentration camp labor doesn't mean they aren't complicit in the crimes. They're in the same boat as Fanta from my perspective. Doing business with murderers because money is more important than human lives.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by __m on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:13AM (#25571210)
Don’t trivialize nazi concentration camps by comparing them to some re-education camps. I highly doubt the number of deaths that occurred in these camps is anywhere close to the deaths that Apple‘s home country caused in its own war on terror, including torture and war crimes. With police brutality and the highest incarceration rate in the world, how can a company that values human lives do business in the US?
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by skinkestek on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @11:42AM (#25571623)
We shouldn't trivialize nazi atrocities.

However we also shouldn't trivialize Chinese atrocities:

A number of the things that happens there will hopefully get into the history wall of shame as soon as we dare challenge it.

We are however in a rough place right now IMO:

- US is weak and has little (but still significant) moral edge.

- US has a military edge but a full scale conflict will >70% become really messy (think nuclear)

- China has a number of other countries (and influential persons) around the world by the b*lls.

- China has an advantage on manufacturing and logistics

Anyone who wants to fix this

- either needs a brilliant idea and probably lots of luck

- or some serious skills in politics (to get local support for taking correct actions with the necessary firmness)

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by kortilla on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:28PM (#25573049)
Wow the desperation it takes to try to misdirect the conversation camps to the “war on terror”. Right out of a whataboutism propaganda playbook.

A citizen of any regime, from the best to the most brutal, can criticize China and it does not detract from the argument at all. It’s not hypocritical because citizens are not the government; and, even if it was directly from the government and was hypocritical, the substance of the argument does not change. Calling someone a hypocrite is just an ad hominem.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by __m on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @02:12PM (#25573557)
Misdirect? The camps are China‘s war on terror, a comparison is appropriate.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by jp_sc on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:07PM (#25571939)
"Re-education camps" aren't they? They can call them "happy unicorn camps" and they will be still concentration camps. They use them as slave labor and human organ farms.

How on Earth, can you even try to gaslight us saying China concentration camps are "nicer" than the Nazis?

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by Shivetya on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @10:47AM (#25570844)
Zero tolerance apparently does not extend beyond the facilities Apple needs to make its goods. As in, they seem to turn a blind eye towards the country's behavior they are in as long as they can keep their own hands clean.

Simply put, Apple should be held accountable for simply doing manufacturing in a country which allows such abuse regardless if they or their suppliers actively use such labor.

Apple isn't alone in this behavior but they are beyond most when it comes to virtue signalling.