Do you have any non-travel related examples where they don't also hand out said masks?
- The cloth masks don't form a tight seal and leave two gaping holes on either side of my nose.
- The cloth masks don't have as fine a filter mesh and aren't as effective at filtering tiny particles.
That said, I don't go out that often, and my trips are limited in time, so I reuse a disposable N95/KN95 mask until I've worn it for as much as a total of 30-100 hours before I dispose of it. I also use reusable everything else wherever I can in my life, I just haven't found any actually good reusable masks that would pass e.g. NIOSH tests.
We settled on a public policy where we are only as safe as the worst mask an infected person is wearing. I would have preferred an alternative policy where people who don’t want to get sick simply wear an effective mask.
I do encourage covering the exhale valve, though, just to be extra safe and considerate.
Places I've worn the P100: an airplane, grocery store, train, Uber, medical lab for a test. I found the peace of mind alone was well worth the inconvenience in these scenarios.
The main policy issues I see are (a) unavailability of good masks, not ramping up mask production, not controlling hoarding with strict consequences (b) advocating for not wearing masks
If everyone is wearing a mask, there are at least two masks between you and an infected person.
Masks don't provide 100% protection, but nothing does. However, masks are important, because they enable people to safely perform essential activities like grocery shopping, and most jobs.
We don't need to stop _every single transmission_, all that we need to do is make sure that each infected person doesn't infect more than one person on average. If each infected person infects two people, for example, that's a chain reaction of spread where everybody eventually gets the virus. However, if each person has a 50-50 chance of infecting somebody else, than over time infections will go down, and Covid will eventually be gone.
Wearing a cloth mask is not difficult, and is a very tiny tradeoff in favor of a significant decrease in transmission chance.
https://tomaspueyo.medium.com/coronavirus-the-swiss-cheese-s...
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-sti...
One graph says, for example, that mask mandate areas in the US have slightly higher infection rates than non-mask mandate areas. But this is extremely expected - high infection rate is what prompts areas to mandate mask usage.
If I feel at risk (maybe because I observe people getting ill and dying), I comply. If I don't feel at risk, I don't care about complying.
Also, why no Asian countries on the international charts? That would be inconvenient for the point, hm?
Have you seen the news out of South Korea and Japan this week?
What news are you talking about, specifically?
They are reporting this as "lost control" even though their spread continues to be lower than any Western country has had since mid-March? That tells a lot.
Missing such important information - the specific information that goes against the page's agenda - calls the entire thing into question. What else is it intentionally not showing?
Also, do you think surgeons wear masks for fashion reasons?
The mask discussion is absurd. A totally minor inconvenience vs. decreased virus exhaling, how can this be a topic for discussion?
"the plausible effect of the mask intervention ranged all the way from a 46% decrease in infection to a 23% increase"
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/danish-study-doesnt-prove-...
So 1% protection ?
>but nothing does. However, masks are important, because they enable people to safely perform essential activities like grocery shopping, and most jobs.
fortunately that the chance of getting sick from covid from doing those activities without mask are very very low.
infection is not useful metric because only small percentage actually cause sickness.
Masks: The Science & The Myths : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4
I have COVID and I'm contagious. I don't know that, of course, so I go to the grocery store. The same grocery store you're shopping it. We cross paths in the cereal aisle.
Would you rather me be wearing a mask?
People have become so extreme in their views that every single life matters that they forget how our 2019 way of life still had significant risk that nobody batted an eye at.
That is not what I insinuating at all.
>Would you rather me be wearing a mask
If you are sick, you should rest at home, just like with any other illness. I wouldn't care whether you wear mask or not.
That's not what was asked. Covid has an up to two week asymptomatic period, there's a high chance that someone around you when you go out is infected and doesn't know. Would you rather them be wearing a mask or not?
I already answer it :
>I wouldn't care whether you wear mask or not
Its up to them, make no difference to me, I have no reason and no interest to require them to wear mask.
Yea most people don't get very sick, except for the 300k that are dead just in the US.
Here's a nice graph of deaths per month per millon for a nearly 200 year perspective: https://swprs.org/facts-about-covid-19/#foobox-1/3/sweden-mo...
'The observed temporary excess mortality likely arises because people in vulnerable groups die weeks or months earlier than they would otherwise, due to the timing and severity of the unusual external event.' https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.11.20229708v...
Eg if there was zero excess mortality, that alone doesn’t prove much either way.
If people think a mask offers them more protection than it really does, they might engage in riskier behavior.
When I see people out walking around the neighborhood with masks on, I really wonder what they're trying to accomplish. You're not going to get covid walking outdoors passing within 6 feet of someone for 5 seconds.
These days, my theory is more people get infected at home than out in public.
People getting infected at home may be a large vector, but the virus got in the home some how in the first place. It’s just easier to spread from that point onwards once it’s in.
Also known as pods and bubbles.
https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/swiss-cheese-pandemic.jp...
Masks: The Science & The Myths : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaBLKKXJt4
It is particles that are around 0.3 microns in size that filters have the most difficulty blocking. N95 particles block 95% of particles of 0.3 microns in size. N99 Masks block 99% of particles at 0.3 microns.
As I understand it smaller particles get ‘stuck’ in the maze of fibres and are statistically unlikely to find there way through the mask. The best analogy I can think of is a spec of dust finding its way into a centre of a huge labarynth that is vibrating randomly in all directions (and coated in honey). Some respirator masks also contain anti viral coatings and are electrostaticaly charged.
Actual correct mask usage means changing masks numerous times a day.
There are two major factors that, as I understand it, drive the use of disposable masks in clinical settings. First is that healthcare workers see many sick people a day and they are worried about surface transmission. This is the main reason why they need to change their masks so often. The rest of us, who are moving through the world without looking directly into the mouths of sick people, have fewer foreign moisture on our masks. The second is that masks do become less effective over time, but the relative import of mask effectiveness should be judged proportionally to risk of the situation. Again, clinical workers are in a higher risk situation, so they change masks more often. The utility for the general public is lower.
Cloth masks were called into question early in the pandemic due to a 2015 study indicating they spread disease[1]. This was in a medical setting and, as I understand it (I am a layman) it was because of poor mask sanitation (i.e. using masks for many days without cleaning). My understanding is that using a cloth mask for a day is better than no mask. Of course it would be better to change it more often, but the relative risk is low.
Since then we have done a number of studies on cloth masks in the population and those studies have shown that cloth masks are effective[2]. It is true that "better" masks protect better, but that protection is almost always trumped by compliance. The mask you will wear is 100% better than the mask you won't wear. So health experts have focused on that.
The medical community has done a shit job of communicating this, but that's no reason to say things that don't seem to be true.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
[2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou...
"In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks".
"Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."
"Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission."
Has the CDC analysis been refuted?
That's probably quite important if you are trying to control pandemic influenza, but SARS-COV-2 isn't influenza. Different pathogens have different characteristics, and thus different responses to protective measures. AFAIK, most influenzas are much more prone to airborne transmission than SARS-COV-2, where the main concern is droplet transmission (though some airborne transmission seems to occur), against which masks that are ineffective against airborne transmission can be quite effective.
You wouldn't judge the value of condoms in preventing the spread of AIDS by studies of how effective they were in preventing the spread of the flu, either.
The first thing I think of is that the meta-study you linked is for influenza. Obviously covid and influenza are similar but I think there are important differences (we did not, for instance, have as many cases of influenza in any of the last fifty years as we have of covid this year). In particular, I know that the asymptomatic transmission of covid is unusual and is not something that happens in influenza[0].
The studies that support mask wearing in my link are on mask mandates (though there are also case studies that suggest masks have been effective). I believe that mandating masks reduces transmission of the virus and I don't think it's necessary to reconcile that fact with the fact that masks don't reduce the spread of influenza.
The version of the study you linked is formatted oddly and the tables are on another page. A pdf of their article is easier to read, I think [3]. From Table 2 (and the discussion around it) I take that they are hoping to catalog open questions and are not seeking to make a recommendation about proper procedure. Therefore I think it's perfectly in keeping with Jingyi Xiao, et. al. to recommend wearing masks based on the covid-specific studies while recognizing we have no evidence that masks prevent influenza.
[0] While you can transmit influenza when you're not showing symptoms, my understanding is that covid is different enough that we shouldn't compare them. That could be wrong and if you have anything to contribute I'd be interested to see it.
[1] https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
[2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Associati...
But for simplicity sake I'll just say this.
I wouldn't want my surgeon walking in to give me surgery, with a mask he just used from another operation.
Corona virus doesn't become any less deadly or contagious outside of a medical institution.
Also falsely accusing someone of spreading false information Should be like falsely accusing someone of rape. The accuser should go to jail or get banned if they're wrong.
PPE worn outside of clinical settings already exist in a lower risk situation and so it's reasonable to accept lower standards for it.
You mean standards like applying a device directly onto your respiratory system that's been potentially exposed for long periods of time to a virus that stays on surfaces for days?
These aren't lower standards these are freaking negative standards.
The virus doesn't become less deadly or less contagious outside of medical institutions.
Sure they're adequate for that.
There's a reason medical professionals change their PPE.
Corona virus doesn't magically become less deadly or less contagious outside of medical institutions.
I have had reusable masks since April. I assumed everyone was doing the same, but everytime I go outside I prove myself wrong. I don't get it.