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Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by tW4r on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:11PM (#25420965)
I would love to use trains more in Europe, but their prices cannot compete with cheap flight providers at all, 30ish EUR flights pretty much from any country to any country in Europe are hard to beat
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:19PM (#25421074)
Flying is a lot of hassle though. You need to go to the airport which is far away from the center. In most cities half an hour to an hour. And you have to arrive at least an hour before your flight takes of. And you cannot buy a ticket spontaneously.

I love trains. They often go every hour. You can spontaneously take them. Right from the center. And you arrive right in the center. And you can freely chose your seat. So you can pick a pleasant neighbor. Or just change seat if your neighbor annoys you.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by johannes1234321 on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:22PM (#25421109)
Especially night trains - if you are able to sleep in that somewhat noisy and shaky environment. You travel overnight, where you can't do anything anyways and come up in the other place in the morning and have the full day available. When flying you typically need a hotel night more and have to get to city center first.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by standardUser on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:23PM (#25421131)
Personally, I can't start a day without a proper bathroom to shower and groom myself. An overnight train doesn't even come close to a hotel replacement in my book.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by johannes1234321 on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:52PM (#25421519)
For a true hotel room comparison you can go to Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Stars_in_Kyushu

In general however it is a compromise. At least "true" sleeper cars often have a (shared, small) shower, but yes, no comparison to equally expensive hotel rooms.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by lmm on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:56PM (#25426131)
> For a true hotel room comparison you can go to Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Stars_in_Kyushu

That's a super-expensive luxury cruise train that only does irregular (and mostly circular) tours - it's the equivalent of the Venice Simplon Orient Express. There's one scheduled sleeper train left in Japan, the Sunrise Izumo/Sunrise Seto.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by m4rtink on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:33PM (#25427034)
We almost rode Sunrize Izumo last year in Japan! We even booked accommodation accordingly, leaving out the one night we ecpected to spend on bord of Sunrise Izumo going from Izumo to Tokyo.

Unfortunately even though we tried to book the train as the first thing after arrival, right on the Narita train station ticket office, it was already fully booked. :P

At least we managed to book the marvelous SL Hitoyoshi steam train from Hitoyoshi to Kumamoto over Hisatsu line. We were actually double lucky on that one, as SL Hitoyoshi is actually out of service right now as floods in July 2020 washed away key bridges on the Kuma river, cutting the rail connection between Hitoyoshi and Kumamoto, until the bridges are repaired...

Still we did go to the very inaka Izuma anyway and spend a very nice old school and almost mythical four days there.

And what we did about that missing accommodation? We booked a night in a ryokan in the splendid Kinosaki onsen town instead and it was indescribably good decision! :)

It took as like 6 hours by multiple small local diesel trains to get from Izumo to Kinosaki, possibly the only tourists to arrive from that direction in quite a while! :)

And on the very elegant Kinosaki station we even discovered a special gate reserved only for guests arriving by one of those luxury cruse trains - namely Twilight Express Mizukaze: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Express_Mizukaze

Likely inspired by the special gate only ueed by the Emperor on Tokyo station. :)

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by kennydude on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:47PM (#25421439)
Ideally you could have a lounge area at the start and end stations where passengers can shower and generally freshen themselves up. Kings Cross in London already has shower facilities, which are wonderful for long days as a tourist.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:23PM (#25421128)
I never tried a night train. Are there any good ones in Europe?
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by lmm on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @12:46AM (#25427411)
The Italian ones are nice, as are the UK ones (if a bit cramped). The Nightjets mentioned in the article (mostly taken over from DB's CityNightLine a few years ago) are variable; the Poland-Ukraine one is pleasant enough but poorly timed. I had a pretty bad time on a Hungarian Railways one. The Russian Railways ones from Paris and Nice to Moscow have a reputation for luxurious looks but bad (or at least not westerner-friendly) food.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by johannes1234321 on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:35PM (#25421275)
Austrian ÖBB, which runs in multiple countries like most lines going through Germany, is working on modernizing their trains, but they also have quite old cars. Not sure if there is a good site showing car types and train lines. https://www.nightjet.com/en/komfortkategorien/nightjetzukunf...
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:37PM (#25421297)
I was on that site a couple of times but never managed to find out which routes offer a single cabin for yourself.

I would not want to have strangers sleeping next to me.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by johannes1234321 on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:41PM (#25421341)
During Cornona this probably is different, but here's the relevant page: https://www.nightjet.com/en/komfortkategorien/ganzes-abteil-...
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:37PM (#25422136)
Well, that is a page which describes the options.

Bit have you tried the "Book ticket" button?

For me, it simply goes to the start page.

So I still don't know how to find the routes that offer these options.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by eesmith on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:06PM (#25422522)
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet.htm suggests that (nearly?) every route offers a single compartment.

That is, "Most Nightjet trains use Comfortline sleeping-cars built by Siemens in 2003-2005 for German Railways' City Night Line sleeper trains." and "Below: Comfortline sleeper layout. All compartments can be sold as a single, double or triple."

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:58PM (#25423208)
Well, have you tried it?

Every time I try to book a trip, the single compartment is grey and says that this option is not available for this trip.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by eesmith on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:51PM (#25423863)
When did you try?

I picked 14 April 2021, leaving Wien Hvf (U) at 20:13 arriving Berlin at 08:55. "Sparschiene Nachtverkehr Nightjet + Anschlussticket Nightjet." "Sleeper Bed", "Compartment with 1 bed (Single)".

€ 216,00.

Bear in mind the comment at https://www.nightjet.com/en/ : "Due to the travel restrictions caused by the corona pandemic, we are reducing the Nightjet traffic to probably 8 February 2021 ... As a precautionary measure, no bookings are currently possible for the affected trains from January 10th to March 24th, 2021", confirming johannes1234321's comment "During Cornona this probably is different".

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by lmm on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:58PM (#25426144)
Almost all of them. Certainly at least Cologne-Vienna, Basel-Vienna, and Amsterdam-Munich back when it existed. What ones did you try?
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by bryanrasmussen on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:52PM (#25421528)
Well I sort of prefer night trains also, in theory at least, but I have to say where I am in a suburb of Copenhagen, it takes me 20 minutes to get to the center station where I could conceivably board a night train.

And I couldn't really spontaneously take a train to the center station where I would then catch a night train because of course I have to make sure I get there in time for the train going to where I want to go.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by flemhans on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:30PM (#25422057)
The upcoming night trains will depart from Høje Taastrup since they arrive from Sweden, and don't want to go to the Central Station just to turn around (takes another hour or so to do).
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by bryanrasmussen on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:40PM (#25422170)
So even longer for me.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by yardie on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:56PM (#25423177)
Does that include the 15-30 euro transport to and from the airport? Only a handful of airports are in the city centre.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by brutuscat on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @04:59AM (#25428702)
You should look at how the new low-cost high speed trains is looking now in Spain. The high speed rails are now open to the market and a Madrid-Barcelona ticket would be around 10 EUR (12ish USD) and a 2:30h trip. https://www.ouigo.com/es/en/barcelona-madrid-train

I really look forward to this deregulation (it was about time for Renfe to have real rivals) and I think it will be a huge added value for the people, that Spain has the second longest high speed train network in the world. I guess we'll see how it evolves in around 5/10 years...

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by rhaps0dy on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @04:10PM (#25435305)
> a Madrid-Barcelona ticket would be around 10 EUR

This is crazy. It's such a long distance. How can it be so cheap? Is it subsidized? Do Ouigo operate their own trains?

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by throw0101a on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:46PM (#25423051)
> 30ish EUR flights pretty much from any country to any country in Europe are hard to beat

Might this change with carbon pricing?

AFAICT, most trains are electric and so (depending on the method of generation) be better with climate change?

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by IfOnlyYouKnew on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:10PM (#25424661)
Yes, this is both true and somewhat unfortunate.

For tourism, and if you're young, the Interrail tickets are probably attractive (one or two months unlimited for XXX EUR).

There are also various methods of price discrimination now being used by rail companies, essentially modelled on airlines'. I. e. buying early, limited tickets sold in specific channels such as discount supermarkets etc.

Of course this negates one of the advantages of rail travel: that you can just hop on any train and buy your ticket after departure (for a small fee), or ten minutes before departure, using using your phone.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by awiesenhofer on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:44PM (#25421391)
If you travel longer routes sure, but to neighbouring cities and countries? Here in Vienna I can get to all larger nearby cities and capitals for 30-50€ in a cheap seat that easily beats anything economy class on a plane has to offer. The journey takes longer of course (sometimes), which may not be for everyone but I take a longer ride vs all the airport hassle any day. Plus on a train first class is something you can actually afford if you want more space and quiet (another 30 to 50€ extra here).
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by EdwinLarkin on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:44PM (#25422222)
The point of travel is to get from point A to point B as fast as possible. It's never about the journey and it's always about the destination.

The only hassle at the airport is all in your head. As a frequent traveler (I used to fly every 2 weeks) all the screening and getting to the airport was a chore, not something to be angsty about.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by danw1979 on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:50PM (#25423851)
I'll bet you've never been through airport security carrying a bored toddler, pushing a buggy (in which you have balanced a child car seat), two extra bags full of baby stuff over your shoulder, all whilst your trousers are falling down because they made you take your belt off ?

It's absolutely the worst way to start and end a holiday.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by pkulak on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:29PM (#25421197)
Probably better if you subtract the hotel stay you'd otherwise have to make.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by TooCreative on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:34PM (#25421256)
Does it really spare you a hotel stay?

With a plane, I leave at 10:00 in the morning, arrive at say 14:00 in the other city and check into a hotel at 15:00.

With a train, I leave at 22:00 in the evening before, arrive at say 10:00 in the other city and check into a hotel at 15:00.

Same amount of hotel stays. A few more hours in the other city. But since I have to carry around my luggage and don't have a shower and toilet, I am not sure if those hours are a plus or a minus.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by morsch on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:33PM (#25424287)
Leave at 10 pm, arrive at 8 am in Austria, connecting train to a village in the middle of the Alps, get some last minute supplies, start hiking at 10 am, arrive at the mountain hut at 5 pm. Not really feasible with air travel without spending a night in the valley where you don't actually want to be as 2 or 3 pm is too late to start the hike. Admittedly that is a very specific example.

For city travel, I've had good experiences with hotels that let me check in early (before noon). I've never had a hotel that wouldn't let me stash my luggage before check-in.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by lastofthemojito on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:41PM (#25421344)
Obviously depends on the user. When I was younger I tried the night train thing on a trip that hopped a few European cities. So, stay in Munich for 2 nights, then on the 3rd night, get on the train to Vienna. Stay in Vienna for 2 nights and get on another train ...

Basically spending 2 out of 3 nights in hotels due to the night train (compared to if we'd done the same itinerary but with daytime trains).

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by notJim on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:42PM (#25421362)
You're missing a night somewhere. Day 1 10:00 - Day 1 14:00 means you need a hotel room Day 1. Day 1 22:00 - Day 2 10:00 (more like 6:00 IME tho) means no hotel room for Day 1.

Train stations in Germany at least generally have luggage lockers, so you can just leave your stuff there. It's not hassle free, of course, but pretty convenient. Not sure if that's common in other countries.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by bergie on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:08PM (#25423337)
Quite a few of the night trains I've taken have had showers. Sometimes shared per car, but in the more modern ones usually in the cabin.

Night trains really are the closest to teleportation that humans have come up with yet.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by pkulak on Monday December 14, 2020 @02:24PM (#25421945)
Back in the old days when I traveled for work, I had to be in the other office at 9am, which meant I would travel the previous afternoon and grab an extra night at the hotel.

Even with your example, you're getting an extra day in your destination without an extra hotel stay.

Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by cinntaile on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:32PM (#25423639)
The point would be to skip that hotel stay alltogether by arriving the next day. If you have things to do during the afternoon the day before resulting in an extra night then it will not save anything.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by vladgur on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:45PM (#25421405)
you can a)leave your luggage at the hotel early b) use a locker at the train station to store your luggage c) avoid bringing a lot of luggage for this trip
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by kgwgk on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:47PM (#25421444)
You assume you were at home before taking the plane or the train. Sometimes you'are travelling from one hotel to another.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by progfix on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @07:20AM (#25429594)
If you don't give a shit about your environment then yes.
Re:Europe's night trains are on track for a resurgence by Al-Khwarizmi on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:36PM (#25421280)
Because they are heavily subsidized. Plane fuel doesn't even pay taxes in Europe.