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Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Trias11 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:41AM (#25329637)
As a society we should vote for car insurance work this way too instead of feeding fraudulent car insurance industry.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by judge2020 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:44AM (#25329649)
Can you describe what exactly is wrong about the current car insurance industry? It sounds like this is exactly how car insurance currently works and it's a very regulated industry, perhaps only behind the financial industry and car manufacturing itself.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by jeromegv on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:41AM (#25332007)
Quebec has quite an interesting system. Everyone must pay in the same national car insurance. You are unable to sue anyone for what happened to you on the road, if you get hurt, the insurance pays you a standard amount for the injury and that's it. So it overall reduce the burden on the court system and the insurance self-finance itself, there's no need for profits. Quebec has the lowest cost car insurance in Canada (and may be North America?)
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by MereInterest on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:50AM (#25332067)
Oh, interesting. I expect this is also easier in a country with single-payer health care. In the US, the majority of the cost of car insurance is for long-term medical care that may be needed after a crash.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by andylynch on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:52AM (#25332606)
NZ does the same thing for accident insurance of all kinds. Not perfect but generally works really well. The insurer does a huge about of work in accident prevention and even covers visitors accident, even ones like ski injuries.

Makes it really easy to do sport there and great for public health as a result.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:42AM (#25342907)
> So it overall reduce the burden on the court system and the insurance self-finance itself, there's no need for profits.

Profit is seldom a significant part of costs. Slate Star Codex went into that quite a bit in the context of healthcare.

Cost explosions usually come when controls on costs are missing.

Competition can be one way to control costs, but it's not the only one. Eg tap water in most places or the Quebec insurance you mention are low cost, too.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:38AM (#25342870)
I have no idea what the comment you replied to had to complain about.

However: an industry being heavily regulated often means that it's not well run for the customers. Just the opposite.

The insurance arrangements in global shipping are likely under lighter regulation than most countries' car insurance.

Btw, in general insurance doesn't have to work on the basis of formal averaging. Averaging can just be a useful and simple shortcut in certain situations (or when the law requires it).

But in principle, each individual insurance contract is an independent bet and can be valued individually.

Goldman Sachs or someone at Lloyds will be happy to sell you insurance for arbitrary one-off risks, as long as you are happy to pay them enough.

See eg Warren Buffett's March Madness competition https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1931210-warren-buffet-wi...

In essence, if you could have predicted enough basketball results, Warren Buffett would have given you a billion dollars.

That was a special, one-off risks to Warren Buffett if every there was one. But it's rather simple to price and write an insurance contract for.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Trias11 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:53AM (#25329688)
In the true market "ship" model you'd pay 1/10 of what you're paying now. In the government enforced model you're overpaying 10x+ fold.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Retric on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:11AM (#25329766)
Car insurance is an extremely competitive market which is the opposite of a monopoly. Food is also ‘mandated’ by basic biology but still ends up being available for cheap.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:56AM (#25330191)
Food is cheap and available in America -- the cheapest in the world as a fraction of income -- because of government intervention. For example, the continuous re-authorization of the Farm Bill means that corn is sold at below the cost to produce.

Food is highly government-subsidized in America. In fact, subsidies accounted for 25% of all farm income in America in 2016 [2].

[1] https://www.ibtimes.com/us-spends-less-food-any-other-countr...

[2] https://modernfarmer.com/2019/01/congress-finally-passed-a-n...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by creato on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:01AM (#25330760)
Farms are only getting a small fraction of the price of food (https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/price-spreads-from-fa...). When you combine this factor with your stat, it doesn't seem like subsidies are a significant factor in the price of food to individuals.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Retric on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:49AM (#25332578)
Bulk rice for example costs ~500$ per metric ton so 22 cents per lb for 1696 calories, removing a 25% subsidy bumps that to 29 cents. Even buying in “bulk” adds overhead, but you’re paying a premium on S&H not so much the food.

That’s roughly how people can live on “a dollar a day” you can get a days worth of food for well under 1$.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:46AM (#25342939)
You are right that subsidies make up 25% of farm income, but that doesn't mean that food is anything like eg 25% cheaper than without subsidies.

The exact impact depends on many details. By default, you would mostly expect food subsidies to increase the price that agricultural land fetches.

Most subsidies would only have an impact on prices, if they encourage more growing overall.

Of course, there's also subsidies and regulations for producing less food. (The EU has a lot of these, too. It's almost impossible to grow more grapes for wine.) The US has the famous corn ethanol subsidy. And some tariffs on food imports.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by scoopertrooper on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:25AM (#25330597)
1) Food is cheap and available in other countries without such government largesse

2) The subsidies alone wouldn't keep prices down if the the evil capitalists were able to control prices as effectively as you seem to imagine.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:15AM (#25331126)
Out of genuine curiosity which country do you think isn’t involved in their country’s food supply? I can’t imagine any government staying out of something so core to a nations id. I’m asking though, I’m not sure!

I’m very much opposed to the farm bill in current form, but because I oppose the industrial agricultural practices which it supports - and the processed food such dirt cheap corn yields. I think food could stand to be more expensive for all but those least able to afford it. America wastes 30-40% of all food produced according to the FDA [1]. The waste alone is enough to feed most of the human population. But I digress.

With that said my understanding of the farm bill is that one of the pillar purposes of its creation by FDR in the new deal was to control the cost of food.

[1] https://www.usda.gov/foodwaste/faqs

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:50AM (#25342957)
> Out of genuine curiosity which country do you think isn’t involved in their country’s food supply? I can’t imagine any government staying out of something so core to a nations id. I’m asking though, I’m not sure!

I suggest looking around the world in space, but also looking through history in time.

Around the world: look at countries that don't produce much food of their own, but import a lot instead. Those countries might still have food regulation, but they won't have a local food growers lobby asking for subsidies.

Throughout history: Have a look at eg the British Corn Laws and the aftermath of their repeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws

> With that said my understanding of the farm bill is that one of the pillar purposes of its creation by FDR in the new deal was to control the cost of food.

Much of the New Deal was meant to increase the price of (agricultural) products.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by GauntletWizard on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:38PM (#25337144)
Food is cheap and available in other countries without such government largesse BECAUSE the USA keeps costs down by being the breadbasket of the world and keeping continuous overproduction going.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:38PM (#25337931)
Indeed in its most blatant form it's called dumping. [1]

[1] https://www.iatp.org/news/us-dumping-corn-in-canada-growers-...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:53AM (#25342968)
Yes, though dumping is a bit of a silly concept.

Dumping is much bedeviled by economic policy makers, but it's never actually been a problem for any recipient country to get good stuff for less.

Most complaints about dumping are just protectionism against lower cost producers. (Though not all, as the example with subsidies shows. But if foreign tax payers are happy to pay for cheap goods for us, who are we to complain?)

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by scoopertrooper on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @07:33AM (#25344351)
Yes if dumping was a continuous practice then we'd all be living off the largess of the dumpers, but it's a temporary practice used to drive out competition before jacking up the prices once dominance is restored. De Beers provide an excellent case study in the application of this tactic.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:19PM (#25354948)
That tactic never really works in big, open markets.

See eg Herbert Dow and the Bromine cartel. https://fee.org/articles/herbert-dow-and-predatory-pricing/ (or any other write-up on the story that you prefer.)

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by sushshshsh on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:16AM (#25329789)
Yeah, $50 a month for liability insurance always felt like a really fair deal to me. Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:56AM (#25330732)
> Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel

Hope that day doesn't come because, ironically, liability won't cover your losses. It may, in full or part, cover the incidental loss of others impacted, but not your own.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:11AM (#25331093)
What do you mean? In the EU every car insurance has to cover minimum 1 million euro in personal liability and 5 million in 3rd party liability. My own with Aviva covers 5 million euro for personal and 20 million for 3rd party. But car insurance typically doesn't pay healthcare bills since healthcare is nationalized, so it's very hard to imagine how payouts would be anywhere near those sums. You'd need to crash into multiple buggati veyrons to get close to the maximum liability limit. I'm paying £400/year.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by corty on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:40AM (#25332494)
I don't know about the rest of the EU, but for Germany at least, your assumption is dangerously wrong.

As the party at fault in an accident, you are on the hook for the total amount of damages, no caps or limits, in cases of negligence, intent or "inherent danger" (if you drive a car, hit a pedestrian, and no fault can be found with anyone, the car's driver is on the hook because of the "inherent danger" of the car). The car insurance only covers up to the pre-agreed limits in cases of inherent danger and negligence. For intent, they have to make the victim whole and then get the money back from you.

Healthcare cost will be initially covered by the healthcare provider of the victim in all cases, but if you are found to be legally at fault, the healthcare provider will collect the bill from you or your liability insurance as the party at fault. To the full amount they can extract, no limits. They won't do that for just a few scratches, because usually they don't know what that bill was for until their client tells them about it. But for larger bills, they will inquire and then come to collect. If the collection exceeds the limits of your liability insurance, a court determines intent or you did something else the liability insurance doesn't cover (e.g. non-named driver in limited contracts, knowingly driving a dangerous vehicle, using a vehicle insured as private use in a commercial (Uber) setting) you will pay...

Oh, and in Germany, only liability insurance covering the 3rd party's damages is necessary, the rest is voluntary. Your limits sound about right.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @10:12AM (#25332840)
Like I said in my other comment, my wording wasn't correct.

And as for the insurance not paying out if you were negligent or actually acted in an intentional way - that's literally every insurance ever. Your home insurance won't pay out if you leave an open fire inside the house and then go for a walk either - that's negligence. Or if your burning house causes damage to someone else, they will pay them to make them whole, and then try to recover money from you. That's just standard procedure.

I'm just saying that while in the US having to decide your liability limit is a worry of most motorists, I don't know or even heard of anyone ever worrying about this in any EU country I've ever lived in - the minimum limits set by law are very very high already, and most insurers offer even higher ones as standard.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by dmurray on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:44AM (#25331258)
> In the EU every car insurance has to cover minimum 1 million euro in personal liability and 5 million in 3rd party liability.

Source on this? I've always understood you only needed third party insurance, and the EU website [0] seems to back this up.

> it's very hard to imagine how payouts would be anywhere near those sums.

If you kill someone or permanently incapacitate them, you could be on the hook for their lifetime loss of earnings. Here's [1] a family being awarded €650,000 following the death of their mother. Agreed, it's still hard to rack up €20 million and I don't know what the precedent is if you run over a billionaire, but in theory I believe the payout here is uncapped.

[0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/insurance/val...

[1] https://www.personalinjuryireland.ie/news/fatal-car-crash-in...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:09AM (#25331382)
>>Source on this? I've always understood you only needed third party insurance, and the EU website [0] seems to back this up.

Sorry, I suppose I worded it incorrectly. The minimums mandated by the EU are 1 million euro for damages to property, and 5 million euro for damages to persons, and actually, having found the document, even that is not entirely correct - it's 1.2 million euro for damages to property, and 1.2 million for damages to persons per victim up to 6.2 million euro per claim

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM:2016...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:50AM (#25331629)
I'm not familiar with how EU/UK differentiates "personal liability" from "3rd party liability" and what all that entails. The parent said:

> $50 a month for liability

...so I presumed a resident of the US.

US car insurance policies vary from state to state, so I'll just say how I understand it in layman IANAL terms.

In my state, personal injury protection (PIP) and property damage liability (PDL or commonly just "liability") coverage are the minimum requirements to legally drive a vehicle. There's also bodily injury liability (BIL), but since my state is what's called a "no-fault state", it's not a hard requirement unless you're a taxi (although my coverage bakes it in; I understand this to be applicable towards passengers).

The parent also said:

> Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel

In this case, liability coverage as I understand it won't cover damage to the insured's vehicle while driving, which falls under "collision" and is entirely optional for a vehicle that is outright owned (i.e. no lien on the title) in any US state, as far as I'm aware.

So PIP would cover your injuries, PDL would cover damages to the property of others, "collision" covers your property while driving, and this other thing called "comprehensive" covers your property when not driving...and if that doesn't cover all the medical/property bills, then involved parties are free to sue each other.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by sushshshsh on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:07AM (#25331377)
Why would I care about the damage done to my car if I'm knowingly paying for liability only on a sub $2000 car? When physics takes the wheel, I can't control who else I hit and how fast
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:20AM (#25331857)
I apparently didn't catch the part of your previous remark where you alluded to the value of your car, but to be fair, the car insurance industry isn't both heavily regulated and immensely profitable because most people truly understand what they're buying, as a mandatory legal requirement more often than not.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by speedgoose on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:05AM (#25329745)
I don't understand. My car insurance is run by a mutual organization and they don't collect 10 times more money for no reasons. If you reduce the income of the insurance, who is paying ?
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Scoundreller on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:55AM (#25329951)
Maybe OP is suggesting there’s a lot of fraudulent claims in auto insurance, or poor driving/maintenance practices that lead to more claims.

When your insurance company has a lot of customers, you don’t care about your big claim’s contribution to rate increases because it will be pennies/month. (Yes, I understand your rates can go up if you’re at fault, but you can also stop driving, drive without insurance (in some places) or reduce your policy).

While this ship has thousands of containers, they probably run through a handful of shipping agents that won’t be in business for long if they make fraudulent claims.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by imtringued on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:09AM (#25330243)
I don't know how insurances work outside of Germany but processing insurance claims is the only thing where insurances can lose money so they will reward you for good driving/maintenance practices with lower fees. If you run a insurance company your goal is basically to become redundant. The best case scenario is to collect a monthly fee but never pay out any insurance claims. Fraudulent claims are pure losses so there is already a strong business incentive to avoid those.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by HPsquared on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:45AM (#25330683)
The bigger the risk that needs to be insured, the bigger the market for the insurers, and profits scale with the size of the market. Insurers are incentivised to minimise claims on their own policies, yes, but as a group they are perfectly happy with rules which increase the overall size and amount of claims, provided it affects everyone equally.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Scoundreller on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:38AM (#25330659)
I guess your tow truck drivers are more respectable than ours that cloned police’s pricey “encrypted” radios to get to accidents faster, charged insurecos hundreds for the tow, would add damage to cars and bring them to sketchy repair shops:

https://nationalpost.com/news/toronto-cop-part-of-organized-...

For some reason, health care expenses related to motor vehicle accidents are paid by the at-fault’s insurer instead of the public health system, so there’s lots of fraud there too. And more product for insurers to sell.

Since the at-fault insurer pays, there’s a lot of incentive for fraud for the “victim”. Some call it the auto-lotto.

Because we created lots of arbitrary fault-determination rules so insurers can’t fight eachother to assign fault, it’s not difficult to stage an accident where someone else is at-fault.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by iso1631 on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:47AM (#25332557)
> I guess your tow truck drivers are more respectable than ours that cloned police’s pricey “encrypted” radios to get to accidents faster, charged insurecos hundreds for the tow, would add damage to cars and bring them to sketchy repair shops:

In my country the insurance company has a list of approved garages and sets the price. Nobody is going to pay a tow truck for preemtively moving a car, they might arrest them for taking without consent.

If a car really needs a tow for safety purposes, the police will organise that based on their pre-existing contracts and paid for a known price (by the insurance company, or the car owner)

If the car is abandoned the council will eventually shift it and claim the cost back as littering

If the car is safe though it's upto the owner to contact their insurance company and arrange for them to come out and shift it.

Multiple companies racing to the scene sounds like something from the 1800s with fire brigades sabotaging each other.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @03:50AM (#25343226)
> While this ship has thousands of containers, they probably run through a handful of shipping agents that won’t be in business for long if they make fraudulent claims.

I don't think they can even make fraudulent claims.

Whether a container gets thrown over board or not is a binary outcome.

How much value to declare upfront is self-policing:

If you declare a high value and someone else's containers gets thrown overboard, your share of the averaged losses is bigger.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by billylindeman on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:07AM (#25329753)
There's significant counterparty risk in that model. What happens when there is an incident and people don't have the money to pay up?
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @03:52AM (#25343236)
You seize their cargo.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by billylindeman on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @09:03PM (#25354479)
You seize the lost 1800 containers?
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:17PM (#25354933)
The people who lost containers get paid compensation. If they don't want it, the shipping company doesn't care.

The people who didn't lose containers are the ones who have to pay up their share of the losses. If they don't pay, you seize their cargo.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by cardiffspaceman on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:50AM (#25332064)
What about insurance fraud? A container isn't going to jump off the ship so that it can collect from the others.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by bartvk on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:02AM (#25330219)
I'm part of an organization called CommonEasy that does this with sickness insurance. The group is a couple of hundred people that basically self-insure for up to two years of income loss. Ten bucks a month is for the organization, the rest is put in a savings fund. Should you leave, you take your savings with you.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by webmaven on Monday December 07, 2020 @10:10AM (#25332816)
> I'm part of an organization called CommonEasy that does this with sickness insurance. The group is a couple of hundred people that basically self-insure for up to two years of income loss. Ten bucks a month is for the organization, the rest is put in a savings fund. Should you leave, you take your savings with you.

Huh, that's an interesting combination. Should you need to make a claim, does it come out of your own savings first before the group coverage starts?

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by wukerplank on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:12AM (#25329769)
But with cars it's different as the individuals are responsible for their action. Not some shipping company. Why should I pay for reckless/drunk drivers?
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:02AM (#25330220)
> But with cars it's different as the individuals are responsible for their action. Not some shipping company. Why should I pay for reckless/drunk drivers?

As with all real insurance plans, you are insured against the actions of others as much as you are against your own actions. This is obviously true in the 12 states + Puerto Rico with no-fault policies.

You may well be distracted at some point and crash into someone else, which is why both of you have insurance. It's crazy to think you can't possibly ever make a single mistake - ever. You can and you will, which is why you're legally required to carry insurance.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by tshaddox on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:26AM (#25329835)
Car insurance plans often cover a lot more than just the driver’s own actions and mistakes. Common line items are insurance for personal injury and property damage caused by other uninsured drivers (because good luck getting your medical bills paid by garnishing the other person’s wages), and damage from weather, natural disasters, falling objects, animals, and vandalism.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Scoundreller on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:04AM (#25329988)
When I ran my quotes, about 3/4 of the premium was for liability. The rest (fire; theft, fixing my car if it was my own fault, hail, etc) made up the balance.

My car is worth $4k tops, so I cancelled the rest. The odds of a total loss are low, so a $500 or $1k deductible combined with the likely scenario of a $2k-$3k repair bill made it very meh to bother paying another $400/yr for.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by mindslight on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:32PM (#25336112)
> The odds of a total loss are low, so a $500 or $1k deductible combined with the likely scenario of a $2k-$3k repair bill made it very meh

It's even worse than that. If you have significant damage, there's a good chance they'll "total" your car. This means they'll write you a check for the appraised value (minus your deductible), and scrap the car. And it's awfully hard to find a worthwhile replacement for the book value of your old one, so even with insurance you're not avoiding the bill.

Another thing that irks me about insurance is that when you raise your coverage limits the premiums go up significantly. I can't imagine the long tail of extreme damages form a significant part of their actuarial tables, so it feels more like price discrimination based on your own assets that you don't want to lose. But really the entire point of insurance is to protect against the vanishingly small long tail - the idea of liability coverage limits should be done away with (if someone causes a million dollars in damage and can't pay, their insurance company shouldn't be able to walk away!), and the main cost-saving lever should be your deductible.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Scoundreller on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:27PM (#25336976)
Yeah, a “total loss” to me is a fire where the car is worth $100 to a scrapper. To insurance, if every fender and bumper gets dented, it’s a total loss, but I’m happy to continue driving it, and it still has $2k+ in parts.

A family member made money on a not-at-fault accident where they would pay $2700 to a repair place, but they took a cheque for $1900 and got it fixed for $950 (parts and labour).

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by imtringued on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:12AM (#25330256)
You still need insurance for liability.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Scoundreller on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:20AM (#25330582)
Depends on the jurisdiction and its enforcement.

And even where it is, most states have minimum requirements that haven’t been updated in decades.

https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/liability-laws/

That person that runs you over may legally only have $25k in insurance to cover your death. Your estate will have to go after their non-estate of debts>assets to get any more.

But in mine, it’s much better to have have insurance than not, and the minimum coverage is $200k at least.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by golergka on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:17AM (#25332278)
You sign a contract with a shipping company, and you can choose not to sign it. Can you choose not to use a country's road system?
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by rand49an on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:59AM (#25331019)
That's just self insurance, legal in most places with a few requirements. Most large car hire companies practice it.