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Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Retric on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:11AM (#25329766)
Car insurance is an extremely competitive market which is the opposite of a monopoly. Food is also ‘mandated’ by basic biology but still ends up being available for cheap.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:56AM (#25330191)
Food is cheap and available in America -- the cheapest in the world as a fraction of income -- because of government intervention. For example, the continuous re-authorization of the Farm Bill means that corn is sold at below the cost to produce.

Food is highly government-subsidized in America. In fact, subsidies accounted for 25% of all farm income in America in 2016 [2].

[1] https://www.ibtimes.com/us-spends-less-food-any-other-countr...

[2] https://modernfarmer.com/2019/01/congress-finally-passed-a-n...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by creato on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:01AM (#25330760)
Farms are only getting a small fraction of the price of food (https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/price-spreads-from-fa...). When you combine this factor with your stat, it doesn't seem like subsidies are a significant factor in the price of food to individuals.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by Retric on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:49AM (#25332578)
Bulk rice for example costs ~500$ per metric ton so 22 cents per lb for 1696 calories, removing a 25% subsidy bumps that to 29 cents. Even buying in “bulk” adds overhead, but you’re paying a premium on S&H not so much the food.

That’s roughly how people can live on “a dollar a day” you can get a days worth of food for well under 1$.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:46AM (#25342939)
You are right that subsidies make up 25% of farm income, but that doesn't mean that food is anything like eg 25% cheaper than without subsidies.

The exact impact depends on many details. By default, you would mostly expect food subsidies to increase the price that agricultural land fetches.

Most subsidies would only have an impact on prices, if they encourage more growing overall.

Of course, there's also subsidies and regulations for producing less food. (The EU has a lot of these, too. It's almost impossible to grow more grapes for wine.) The US has the famous corn ethanol subsidy. And some tariffs on food imports.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by scoopertrooper on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:25AM (#25330597)
1) Food is cheap and available in other countries without such government largesse

2) The subsidies alone wouldn't keep prices down if the the evil capitalists were able to control prices as effectively as you seem to imagine.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:15AM (#25331126)
Out of genuine curiosity which country do you think isn’t involved in their country’s food supply? I can’t imagine any government staying out of something so core to a nations id. I’m asking though, I’m not sure!

I’m very much opposed to the farm bill in current form, but because I oppose the industrial agricultural practices which it supports - and the processed food such dirt cheap corn yields. I think food could stand to be more expensive for all but those least able to afford it. America wastes 30-40% of all food produced according to the FDA [1]. The waste alone is enough to feed most of the human population. But I digress.

With that said my understanding of the farm bill is that one of the pillar purposes of its creation by FDR in the new deal was to control the cost of food.

[1] https://www.usda.gov/foodwaste/faqs

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:50AM (#25342957)
> Out of genuine curiosity which country do you think isn’t involved in their country’s food supply? I can’t imagine any government staying out of something so core to a nations id. I’m asking though, I’m not sure!

I suggest looking around the world in space, but also looking through history in time.

Around the world: look at countries that don't produce much food of their own, but import a lot instead. Those countries might still have food regulation, but they won't have a local food growers lobby asking for subsidies.

Throughout history: Have a look at eg the British Corn Laws and the aftermath of their repeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws

> With that said my understanding of the farm bill is that one of the pillar purposes of its creation by FDR in the new deal was to control the cost of food.

Much of the New Deal was meant to increase the price of (agricultural) products.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by GauntletWizard on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:38PM (#25337144)
Food is cheap and available in other countries without such government largesse BECAUSE the USA keeps costs down by being the breadbasket of the world and keeping continuous overproduction going.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by arcticbull on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:38PM (#25337931)
Indeed in its most blatant form it's called dumping. [1]

[1] https://www.iatp.org/news/us-dumping-corn-in-canada-growers-...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:53AM (#25342968)
Yes, though dumping is a bit of a silly concept.

Dumping is much bedeviled by economic policy makers, but it's never actually been a problem for any recipient country to get good stuff for less.

Most complaints about dumping are just protectionism against lower cost producers. (Though not all, as the example with subsidies shows. But if foreign tax payers are happy to pay for cheap goods for us, who are we to complain?)

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by scoopertrooper on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @07:33AM (#25344351)
Yes if dumping was a continuous practice then we'd all be living off the largess of the dumpers, but it's a temporary practice used to drive out competition before jacking up the prices once dominance is restored. De Beers provide an excellent case study in the application of this tactic.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by eru on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:19PM (#25354948)
That tactic never really works in big, open markets.

See eg Herbert Dow and the Bromine cartel. https://fee.org/articles/herbert-dow-and-predatory-pricing/ (or any other write-up on the story that you prefer.)

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by sushshshsh on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:16AM (#25329789)
Yeah, $50 a month for liability insurance always felt like a really fair deal to me. Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:56AM (#25330732)
> Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel

Hope that day doesn't come because, ironically, liability won't cover your losses. It may, in full or part, cover the incidental loss of others impacted, but not your own.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:11AM (#25331093)
What do you mean? In the EU every car insurance has to cover minimum 1 million euro in personal liability and 5 million in 3rd party liability. My own with Aviva covers 5 million euro for personal and 20 million for 3rd party. But car insurance typically doesn't pay healthcare bills since healthcare is nationalized, so it's very hard to imagine how payouts would be anywhere near those sums. You'd need to crash into multiple buggati veyrons to get close to the maximum liability limit. I'm paying £400/year.
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by corty on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:40AM (#25332494)
I don't know about the rest of the EU, but for Germany at least, your assumption is dangerously wrong.

As the party at fault in an accident, you are on the hook for the total amount of damages, no caps or limits, in cases of negligence, intent or "inherent danger" (if you drive a car, hit a pedestrian, and no fault can be found with anyone, the car's driver is on the hook because of the "inherent danger" of the car). The car insurance only covers up to the pre-agreed limits in cases of inherent danger and negligence. For intent, they have to make the victim whole and then get the money back from you.

Healthcare cost will be initially covered by the healthcare provider of the victim in all cases, but if you are found to be legally at fault, the healthcare provider will collect the bill from you or your liability insurance as the party at fault. To the full amount they can extract, no limits. They won't do that for just a few scratches, because usually they don't know what that bill was for until their client tells them about it. But for larger bills, they will inquire and then come to collect. If the collection exceeds the limits of your liability insurance, a court determines intent or you did something else the liability insurance doesn't cover (e.g. non-named driver in limited contracts, knowingly driving a dangerous vehicle, using a vehicle insured as private use in a commercial (Uber) setting) you will pay...

Oh, and in Germany, only liability insurance covering the 3rd party's damages is necessary, the rest is voluntary. Your limits sound about right.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @10:12AM (#25332840)
Like I said in my other comment, my wording wasn't correct.

And as for the insurance not paying out if you were negligent or actually acted in an intentional way - that's literally every insurance ever. Your home insurance won't pay out if you leave an open fire inside the house and then go for a walk either - that's negligence. Or if your burning house causes damage to someone else, they will pay them to make them whole, and then try to recover money from you. That's just standard procedure.

I'm just saying that while in the US having to decide your liability limit is a worry of most motorists, I don't know or even heard of anyone ever worrying about this in any EU country I've ever lived in - the minimum limits set by law are very very high already, and most insurers offer even higher ones as standard.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by dmurray on Monday December 07, 2020 @06:44AM (#25331258)
> In the EU every car insurance has to cover minimum 1 million euro in personal liability and 5 million in 3rd party liability.

Source on this? I've always understood you only needed third party insurance, and the EU website [0] seems to back this up.

> it's very hard to imagine how payouts would be anywhere near those sums.

If you kill someone or permanently incapacitate them, you could be on the hook for their lifetime loss of earnings. Here's [1] a family being awarded €650,000 following the death of their mother. Agreed, it's still hard to rack up €20 million and I don't know what the precedent is if you run over a billionaire, but in theory I believe the payout here is uncapped.

[0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/insurance/val...

[1] https://www.personalinjuryireland.ie/news/fatal-car-crash-in...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by gambiting on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:09AM (#25331382)
>>Source on this? I've always understood you only needed third party insurance, and the EU website [0] seems to back this up.

Sorry, I suppose I worded it incorrectly. The minimums mandated by the EU are 1 million euro for damages to property, and 5 million euro for damages to persons, and actually, having found the document, even that is not entirely correct - it's 1.2 million euro for damages to property, and 1.2 million for damages to persons per victim up to 6.2 million euro per claim

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM:2016...

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:50AM (#25331629)
I'm not familiar with how EU/UK differentiates "personal liability" from "3rd party liability" and what all that entails. The parent said:

> $50 a month for liability

...so I presumed a resident of the US.

US car insurance policies vary from state to state, so I'll just say how I understand it in layman IANAL terms.

In my state, personal injury protection (PIP) and property damage liability (PDL or commonly just "liability") coverage are the minimum requirements to legally drive a vehicle. There's also bodily injury liability (BIL), but since my state is what's called a "no-fault state", it's not a hard requirement unless you're a taxi (although my coverage bakes it in; I understand this to be applicable towards passengers).

The parent also said:

> Pleasantly tolerable fee for a day where my car hits black ice and physics takes the wheel

In this case, liability coverage as I understand it won't cover damage to the insured's vehicle while driving, which falls under "collision" and is entirely optional for a vehicle that is outright owned (i.e. no lien on the title) in any US state, as far as I'm aware.

So PIP would cover your injuries, PDL would cover damages to the property of others, "collision" covers your property while driving, and this other thing called "comprehensive" covers your property when not driving...and if that doesn't cover all the medical/property bills, then involved parties are free to sue each other.

Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by sushshshsh on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:07AM (#25331377)
Why would I care about the damage done to my car if I'm knowingly paying for liability only on a sub $2000 car? When physics takes the wheel, I can't control who else I hit and how fast
Re:A container ship lost a record 1,800 containers by metaphor on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:20AM (#25331857)
I apparently didn't catch the part of your previous remark where you alluded to the value of your car, but to be fair, the car insurance industry isn't both heavily regulated and immensely profitable because most people truly understand what they're buying, as a mandatory legal requirement more often than not.