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Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by miguendes on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:34AM (#25289181)
Interesting article.

Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected?

If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps?

One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by diarrhea on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:53AM (#25289373)
The tracking is extremly intrusive. With GPS turned off, accuracy is diminished, but locating the device is still possible via WiFi SSIDs and cell towers the phone is logged into. Maybe Bluetooth also plays a role.

In the background, the phone uses its gyro sensors so it can tell what you are doing: walking, running, getting into a car/sitting down, getting out/up, ...

The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off (saw an admittedtly obscure YouTube video on that which I can't seem to dig up again).

Like the Kindle, airplane mode also doesn't stop data from being transmitted to the overlords. It merely delays it from somewhat real-time to whenever you go online again.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by londons_explore on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:33AM (#25289788)
> The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off

There are specific bits of malware that make the phone appear to be off when it is in fact powered on. Such malware typically requires root access or an exploit, and is the realm of shady governments not advertiser's. But if you don't have that malware, you can't be tracked when the phone is off.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by rcoveson on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:05PM (#25292189)
I'm sure there's plenty of RF energy to make a passive phone case that lights up when your phone is transmitting, which would detect this case if you were looking at your phone. Maybe having it emit a tone would be better.

It would be fun to see if you could get a modern phone to shut up for even five seconds when powered on.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by hattar on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:43AM (#25289917)
> location logging continues to work with the phone off

I’m very skeptical about this. I’d be interested to know how a phone could track location info while powered off.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by vlovich123 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:33AM (#25289785)
If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. About the only remaining source would be the mag of apps implement their own harvesting of the Earth’s magnetic field. Such things are extremely technically difficult to do well (you’d need to map the mag signals across the world) and the accuracy isn’t great (somewhere between wifi and coarse cellular if I recall correctly).

If at any point this actually became a reality the OS would start treating mag access as needing location permissions.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by vorpalhex on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:40AM (#25290767)
> If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs.

Location services doesn't disable bluetooth. If you're in a dense area, your local stores may have bluetooth beacons which will report location hits against your bluetooth ID, which may be tied to you through applications you install.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluet...

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by hedora on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:27PM (#25291574)
You also need to turn off the Bluetooth, cell, and wifi modems, and keep them off.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces...

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if baseband processors eventually start logging and asynchronously sending gps data to the cell carriers behind the operating system’s back, so you should also keep it in a mylar sack.

Similarly the accelerometer can gather all sorts of information (passwords, text typed on the keyboard, are you driving, flying, walking, etc), so you’ll probably eventually need to keep the phone in a drawer to avoid leaking that information. Similarly for the microphone (some surveillance libraries already snoop sounds in various primitive ways).

To recap: keep it off the network in a stationary, electromagnetically shielded, sound proof box. That’s simple enough, and from there you can use it as normal.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by derwiki on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:54AM (#25289378)
Most likely a coincidence: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-con...

If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by Hamuko on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:55AM (#25290079)
>If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.

Yeah, there's no way for Facebook to be actively listening to conversations on millions of phones connected to private home networks without someone noticing. And that's not even addressing that someone currently or formerly working at Facebook would just blow the whistle at some point.

The problem with this conspiracy theory is that people just don't care about numbers and facts. They usually have an anecdote ("I was talking about cheese and hour later I got an ad for cheese") and that removes any need for hard evidence. Hard evidence that shouldn't be that hard to collect considering you own both the device and the network on which this supposed listening is happening on.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by TurkishPoptart on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:17PM (#25291400)
But this definitely _does_ happen, and most people, even non-tech people are aware of it. There's just some people who refuse to believe it.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by distances on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:39PM (#25291765)
If you mean the conspiracy theory, then some proof would be in order. That happening, and most people believing that to happen, are both outlandish claims.

Spoiler: it actually does not happen. As the other person commented, snooping like this in scale would leak.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by mdpopescu on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:07PM (#25293988)
I don't understand this "argument from incredulity". It has leaked - you found out about it. Do you want them to publish an article in NY Times saying "yes, we spy on you all the time"? Do you want a personalized letter? What, exactly, is the form of this "leak" you expect would happen if this were true?
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by distances on Thursday December 03, 2020 @04:10PM (#25294977)
Just in case you are serious here: a random anecdote on a forum discussion doesn't count for anything, definitely not for a "leak". That parent message had a wild claim which of course requires serious proof.

Edit: since you're asking, proof could be multiple testimonials from ex-engineers working on the project or a peer-reviewed article in a serious journal. Until that this is in the same bin with healing crystals and chemtrails.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by mdpopescu on Friday December 04, 2020 @03:18AM (#25300205)
Right. Testimonials in violation of their NDAs.

Whistleblowers never prosper, at least in the US. Too many examples, take Stingray for a less controversial one. What was the result? Crickets. Exactly what would be the incentive for those engineers?

Myself, I'm a Bayesian and I grew up in a communist country, which means I start from "of course everyone is spying on me, all the time" and require strong evidence to change my mind.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by Hamuko on Friday December 04, 2020 @03:35AM (#25300280)
>Right. Testimonials in violation of their NDAs.

You're expecting 100% of the engineers at Facebook (or previously at Facebook) that know about this to comply with the NDA. And history shows that 100% of Facebook employees will not keep quiet about Facebook doing bad/illegal things.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by distances on Friday December 04, 2020 @11:27AM (#25304155)
I don't need to change your mind, so I won't try. I'll just say that it must be very tiring to believe every conspiracy theory by default. To me it seems like a sad way to live.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by Hamuko on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:09PM (#25294011)
>It has leaked - you found out about it.

Where?

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by mdpopescu on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:10PM (#25294034)
Really? In the parent message.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by Hamuko on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:20PM (#25294186)
Yeah, really. Because I ain't seeing anything.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by Hamuko on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:33PM (#25291673)
You mean that Facebook is definitely tapping your phone's microphone 24/7?
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by jerry1979 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:23AM (#25290486)
Couldn't the facebook app just listen for signal fingerprints? For example, Nielsen embeds digital fingerprints into songs so that it can tell what you listen to without listening to the full audio stream. They simply listen for a certain pattern, and make note when they detect the pattern. You could do the same with with "coffee" or "jogging" or "yoga mat". You don't listen to the conversation audio, you detect audio fingerprints.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by jtsiskin on Friday December 04, 2020 @05:37AM (#25300923)
They would still need to enable the Audio hardware. That would be noticed.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by miguendes on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:37AM (#25289841)
Nice, thanks for linking the article!
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by KingMachiavelli on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:24PM (#25292474)
As far as I know the largest offenders are still the cellular companies since they can and are selling location data that works without any software on the phone. It's technically less precise than GPS/wifi location data but since it's always active it's pretty easy to use weeks of data to improve the resolution.

Besides that just don't install any apps you don't need. Stick to open source software, install a custom ROM on your phone, don't use Google location services, etc.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by robin_reala on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:37AM (#25289209)
On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by 1f60c on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:20AM (#25289644)
And, in iOS 14, you can also grant an app access to “imprecise” location data, which reduces its accuracy from about 20 feet to 2 miles.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by lagadu on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:49AM (#25289341)
It's the same since at least Android 10, also you can allow one-off permissions as well.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by curiousgal on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:47AM (#25289316)
Same on Android 11. There's also an "Only this time" option.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by quenix on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:30AM (#25290618)
That’s different. That would just ask you to confirm again if the app prompts.

The iOS counterpart blocks location requests quietly when the app is in the background and allows them when the app is in the foreground.

Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by mmgu on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:37PM (#25292661)
Turning off ad id in the OS and checking which apps have access to location would do wonders. Would also recommend checking which apps have access to the contact list.
Re:My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveill... by ph2082 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:05PM (#25291193)
Same I noticed.

One particular day I remember specifically because had a long call with friend who lives in some other city. We talked about meeting sometime in future, dating, job situation and travelling to Canada/Europe.

With in hours I received promotional email about "travelling to the city my friend lives in". Dating site AD. Looking for Job and article about how to travel move to Canada/Europe.

Fun day.

People only think about Facebook, but there are other AdTech companies as well which do not get scrutinised as much.