Oyakodon is one of the blandest dishes in Japanese cuisine (typically made with no sauces or spices - or just a tiny dash of shichimi), so I'm not surprised foreign travelers found it disappointing. Growing up with the context of the dish helps - and so does a sensitive tongue!

This, and the way Japanese taste sushi and sashimi is very different to most foreigners. So when locals tell you a restaurant is good, it is importune to note this is in the context of the local traditions.

Living in greater Tokyo for the past 5 years, can speak the language fluently. Added the Tamahide restaurant to visit sometime, thanks!

The biggest thing I've felt since moving here: whether or not you can speak and interact in Japanese makes a world of difference. Seriously. I have interacted with expats who have not studied any inkling of Japanese, nor have tried any kind of interactions apart from other expats, and it felt their life was so bland. For example, they'd struggle to order anything except at big chain restaurants that have English menus, so that small alleyway restaurant that serves super nice ramen? Or that washoku (Japanese food) restaurant that's famous for its signature dish in Japanese? Very hard.

And that's without all the intricacies of interacting with Japanese people (beyond asking for directions where people are very helpful). Boy, that's a rollercoaster ride. Sometimes you strike up conversations with people so easily because you can speak the language. Sometimes you get hurt because of differences in ways of thinking. Sometimes you try to put yourself in a Japanese person's shoes and try to understand what they're thinking. To me, it's been one of the most fun parts so far.

And I feel much more welcome. For example, the bento (packed lunch) shop run by a family where I buy a takeout from once a week? They know my name and can tell my voice when I call to order a bento. I ask them how's life and they do as well as we chitchat while visiting their shop. I leave the shop with both of us saying "Thanks as always!". These small things do make a difference when you're living thousands of miles away from your home country.

I'm not complaining that there should be more English stuff in general; I feel people are trying to improve the situation. Nor that I'm saying not knowing Japanese will make your life hell; it won't. But, it will be bland. Especially if you happen to end up at a local town in rural Japan. That has its own charm points but you'd miss out most of them.

TLDR: Speaking from experience, if you ever plan to stay long-term in Japan, learn Japanese. I'm sure you won't regret it.

(Sorry for the long rant.)

You're 100% right, that if I had better language skills I likely wouldn't have felt as isolated. I did try, and picked up some phrases, but intermittent trips rather than a contiguous multi-year stay made it more difficult.

That said, the difference between Japanese and Latin languages does play into the "foreign-ness" I mentioned. My very bad high school/college French is enough to feel comfortable deciphering a lot of Spanish and Italian, both written and spoken. Needless to say, that skill didn't transfer to Japan.

Again though, I love Japan because you truly feel as if you're in another culture. When I step off the plane in most countries, the first impression is sameness: same brands, same clothes, same affectations and language cadence. Flying to Japan truly feels like travel; I imagine it similar to going anywhere 100 years ago, before globalization (modulo British colonialism, of course).

It would be a heck of an adventure to commit to a few years' stay and really explore the country. I'd just want to do it with a partner to share the adventure with me.

I'm very happy you've had a great experience. I'm sure you will carry this with you regardless of where life's journey takes you.

Indeed, I seem to love Japan, haha. Thanks for the kind words!

For sure, do come over for a long term stay (with your partner!) and enjoy Japan. Like all countries, Japan has its own set of problems, but beyond that, it's a wonderful country. :)

I have had the same experience. To push down on this the Japanese feel shame in not being able to communicate to you if you do not speak Japanese. It makes them uncomfortable. Being able to manage some basic Japanese helps so much to build a warmer feeling in your interactions. It does not have to be perfect but you have to try. There is a bar I love that is known for not being friendly to non-Japanese. However that is not the case. They pride themselves on their level of service and they feel they cannot meet that level if they cannot communicate to you. If you go with someone that speaks Japanese you are fine but alone they will tell you they are booked (if you look non-Japanese). I have been there enough and my Japanese is good enough that that I can walk in no issues. Once I walked in with a group of foreigners and a new person rushed up and told me in broken English "all full". As soon as I asked for a member of staff I knew in Japanese the persons face dropped and he apologized and sat us. I spent the night translating for my party and everyone has a great time (and my Japanese is quite child like!) There is another place I frequent that has the same staff for the last 12 years! They smile when I walk in, even if it has been 1/2 a year! It's going to be almost a year now with this pandemic but I promise when I get back I will see the same faces and they will still know my favorite scotch.

Perhaps it's a bit reductive, but your story reads like "I went to a restaurant I like and they nearly refused service due to my ethnicity".

A similar thing has happened to me and it doesn't make me want to go back.

I understand it could be looked at that way. The point was that it was not because they do not like foreigners, but because they feel they cannot uphold their service standards if they cannot communicate. Maintaining the expected quality service and reputation for that excellence is the only thing that matters and not doing so would bring shame. It is a very uniquely Japanese view on things and I do not in this case see it as racist. The reality is that the Japanese think very differently then most western (EU/US) and it can be very hard for outsiders to understand or even relate.

(This is replying to both your comment and its parent comment.)

I sometimes run into that kind of behavior, especially when my first impression is my looks rather than my voice. But then I think of it like this: they probably have to deal with many foreign customers, "most" of whom cannot speak Japanese. Or they might not have been exposed to many foreigners that they know there are foreigners who can speak Japanese.

At the same time, Japanese society puts consideration for others at one of the higher priorities when interacting with people, and is seen everywhere and highly evaluated by many.

So it feels natural for the person to assume that I, as another one of those foreign people, most likely cannot speak Japanese. Also, they could try speaking to me in Japanese, but it'd be inconsiderate of them if I didn't know Japanese. So many a time the default, and very likely considerate route out is broken English to the best of their abilities.

I know this makes people like us who do know the language a bit bad, but then again, we're still a minority so I wouldn't read too much into it. :)

Of course, if the person in question knows you know Japanese, yet keeps talking to you in English, then it might be better to assume something is not right. :)

As a counterpoint to the sibling replies, I speak fluent Japanese and was still refused entry to a local izakaya in Hakodate. It wasn't about the language, I made plenty clear that I could speak it well. They just didn't like foreigners. Racism and discrimination is definitely a thing here, and I certainly wouldn't go back to that restaurant.

However it's only happened once in a year of living here and never in Tokyo, only a ruralish city, so I don't take it as an indictment on Japanese people. I'm sure there are plenty of bars in rural America or Australia (where I'm from) that would have been equally unfriendly to someone of Asian ethnicity. At the end of the day you just have to decide not to let it ruin your day that there are some bad eggs in the bunch, no matter which country it is.

*Caveat though that I've heard it is much worse here for people from China than it is for white foreigners such as myself. If it made up a significant portion of my experience it would be hard to live here comfortably.

> The biggest thing I've felt since moving here: whether or not you can speak and interact in Japanese makes a world of difference. Seriously.

Literally right for almost every country: France without knowing French, US without English, Taiwan with Chinese or Taiwanese, Egypt without Arabic... Japan is not special in that regard, save for the fact that most people here have quite a low level of English (which is also not very specific to Japan).

So I wholly agree that making the effort to learn the local language repays by itself for any medium or long stay.

Indeed you are right, it's true for almost any country in the world. Knowing the local language is a huge plus everywhere!

You really don't need to speak much of the local language to get food in a restaurant. I have no experience of Japan but I've spent close to a year in China spread over a dozen trips. I ate in a number of different places, bought silk for my wife, etc., all without being able to speak the local language. My experience is that throwing yourself on the mercy of the the waiter works quite well with some sign language and perhaps a simple phrasebook not just in China but also in Spain. After all the restaurant wants you to come back and to tell your friends how good it is.

Rants are by definition long right :)? It was a good one and I enjoyed it! Thanks.

Thank you!

Actually, I realized this after writing out the whole thing but that sorry for the long rant is kind of like a good manners thing in Japanese internets. If you look up "長文失礼しました。", which literally means "Excuse me for the long writeup", it's usually appended to say a comment in a blog, or sometimes at the end of a Tweet when the speaker felt what they said is a bit on the longer side.

I somehow ended up picking up that habit somewhere down the line it seems. :)

This was really cool to read, thanks for sharing.

I had a similar experience in Greece, where some locals recommended an out of town Gyro shop ("Gyro" is a popular Greek dish, simply put, it's your choice of meat, wrapped or stuffed in a pita, along with ingredients such as tomato, onion, and tzatziki sauce).

At a measly 2 euros, it was vastly cheaper than the Gyro shops dotted around the popular hot-spots of the island.

And yet it had been open for a very long time indeed.

> Tokyo is an amazing city, though it can be very lonely for an expat.

Could you expand upon this? I've been thinking of moving there for a year or two to focus on my language skills and work on my startup.

I spent a lot of time in Obihiro, Hokkaido in my late teens and had a blast hanging out at the university. Everyone was super friendly.

When I traveled to even more remote towns like Hobetsu / Mukawa, Makubetsu, Ashoro, and Honbetsu, the children would run up to meet me and want to take photos. (They don't see foreigners often.)

I never spent much time in Tokyo, but I did spend a lot of time in Shanghai, Changsha, and other big Chinese cities and almost want to consider that a proxy.

Why is Tokyo lonely? Is it this city in particular? Is it a certain age range?

Post-college and into adulthood does it become lonelier?

Also, what's the startup scene like in Tokyo? I'm considering something a few steps beyond VTuber streaming and think Japan would be a great environment to pull talent from.

Been living in Tokyo for near a decade, and I can add that despite it being a bustling metropolis, it does have this silent loneliness just in the background. It's hard to describe, unless you spend any significant time here, and the locals of Tokyo will tell you the same -- it's a cold city. With that being said, I love the place. However, if not for my cabal of really close friends, I don't think I would stay here -- and these are friends from my university days back in America.

I can contrast it with another city I have lived in (on and off for 2-3 years), and that's Seoul. In my first year in Seoul, I probably met more close friends than in a decade of living in Tokyo. I'm an introvert through and through, so unless people open up to me first, there is going to be silence. Tokyo has a way of making you comfortable with the mundane.

Seoul is just this bustling amazing city with an energy of "anything is possible" in the air. Tokyo seems as though it has already had its heyday and is on a slow, silent, but peaceful decline. I love my little neighborhood, and have made a life for myself in Tokyo, but I can't honestly recommend it as a place to move to, unless you have some deep interest in Japan or family connections.

If you are interested in the startup scene, it's here but nothing on the scale that you would see in the US. I'd say Seoul is the place to be for startups now -- the Korean government is pretty much throwing money at people with ideas.

I'll always call Japan home, but I definitely see myself leaving Tokyo in the near future, if not for another city, then back to Korea.

To give some context, I'm a male 30 something PoC.

Very lucid and reasonable view. As much as I do love some Japanese cities (Tokyo is not in the list - but to each it's own) and always will see Japan as my only home - I do share the sentiment.

A lot (if not majority) of foreigners fall for the image Japan has when it's observed from abroad. That's a very unfortunate illusion

> To give some context, I'm a male 30 something PoC.

Proof of Concept?

Person of color. Used as a distinction due the perceived user base here being mostly white males. It’s a common term.

And now that you know the meaning you’ll be seeing it every where... Baader Meinhof phenomenon and all that.

Oh, thanks.

Maybe. (I certainly do experience that in general!) In the UK though I very rarely hear people describe themselves or others as 'a person/people of colour' though, even in full I mean; it's American to my ear.

I'll admit to only having been to Tokyo about a half dozen times, for up to two weeks at a time. It remains one of my favorite cities, but at the end of two weeks I was ready to go home. I don't usually feel that way when traveling.

I found it lonely for the same reason I loved the city: it was so familiar, and yet so different at the same time. I felt like gears that were slightly out of mesh, not enough to snap, but enough to wear away the edges and cause subtle damage over time.

Making friends as an adult is always hard, but being a transplant into such a new culture is even harder. Everyone was friendly, but finding true connection is difficult: language barriers, cultural differences, biases (on both sides), and perhaps the transitory nature of my stay meant there was always a constant difference.

I always felt like an outsider, even when welcomed warmly. Maybe this was me, but I always knew I was being accommodated: "he's a gaijin, he doesn't know better." This was absolutely kind, but I also knew that I didn't know better, and didn't know what I didn't know, and that created a subtle tentativeness and friction in social interactions.

The classic scenes of Tokyo streets with tall buildings filled with small shops and laced with vertical signage is an apt metaphor for living in Tokyo. There is so much hidden behind the facades that it takes a lifetime to know what's really there, unless you have a guide with infinite patience.

Maybe other cities, or towns, would be different. Maybe it would be much easier if I was fluent, or planned to stay for years. Maybe someone without tendencies towards introversion, or who went with a partner to lean on, would have a very different experience.

But like I said, many small factors just wore on me, and I was happy to return to the warm embrace of home.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about the startup scene to do more than speculate. I was there representing an enterprise software company, which has very different dynamics - especially in Japan.

Years back, I use to cover Europe and had taken Latin at University. Was use to stumbling through a language as there were enough common roots that I could parse enough words to sort of make sense of things. Got a work project in Tokyo and jumped at the chance. I picked up a cheap translation book and attempted to order some sort of rice bowl with meat and a beer evening after evening on my first few trips out there. Every time, I got ... something. Never what I was actually thinking it was. It was very odd to not understand any written or spoken word. Folks were very kind but it was so very odd to not understand more than a few common phrases.

This was also a point in time where our shop started insisting on receipts for travel expenses. I always got something that had a number on it, but lord knows what it actually said. Was rather a snarky moment when I handed over the stack of receipts all in Japanese.

I really miss the travel...

The receipt story made me laugh. Trying to decipher receipts for expense reports was not the most fun part of business travel to Tokyo!

(Though Japan on an expense report is really the best way to go, unless you're fabulously wealthy. I can't say I'm complaining!)

I only lived in Tokyo for a few months, but I felt like there was a lingering loneliness paradoxically exacerbated by the high population density. Growing up around Southern hospitality set a high bar, but even compared to less friendly parts of the States, it was hard to strike up random conversations that were deeper than anything superficial. It's a hard culture to break into if you're obviously a foreigner because of the high language barrier, and you start seeing the same faces in the expat circles after a while. Still a great city where I made a lot of deep connections, and I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to park myself there for a few years.

Tokyo has a reputation for being cold even to Japanese people from other prefectures. Osaka was more fun and friendly.

Definitely, even my Tokyo-native friends dislike the mind-your-own-business and fake-nice mentalities.

Chinese culture and Japanese culture are very different related to this article and in the way we/they treat outsiders - the big Chinese cities are not good proxies.

In the last 20 years, a lot of Chinese tradition and respect has been thrown out and attitudes towards business and family flipped on its head with the rise of Chinese capitalism - a lot of hustle and winner takes all at the expense of everyone else attitude.

The elite and/or hustling Chinese embrace western things and incorporate them in their life -- even flexing their English knowledge is a way to signal social/economic class in China. I'm not an expert in Japan, but I don't see a lot of English flexing in Japanese culture.

In terms of being an expat, plenty of expat + curiosity in Chinese cities to never really be lonely.

I’ve lived in Tokyo a few times and didn’t feel it was especially lonely for a big city. Or rather it has the potential to be as cold and lonely as any other big city if you just work and go home and don’t meet people. In some ways its easier to meet other expats because you have outsider status in common, though as some of them inevitably move I suppose it could get lonelier.

This is very true. Connecting with other expats is easy and fun, and I spent plenty a night in the "gaijin ghetto." I'm not sure that that would scale for a multi-year stay though; like you say, it's a pretty transient crowd.

Just curious, how do you like Changsha? Most people on hacker-news are from the tech industry, Changsha was more famous for its TV/media entertainment industry.

Not OP, but I've visited several cities in China including Changsha and it's definitely one of my top 3 cities. The food and club scene there stood out to me in particular.

Great video about Oyako Don at Tamahide: https://youtu.be/Q2QCvORjBYk