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Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by deeblering4 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:05PM (#25103737)
I’m curious, why do people jump onto a new OS release as soon as it becomes available? Especially on machines they are using professionally.

Between bugs in the OS itself, bugs in apps, and developers who lag behind on OS support (looking at you DAW and audio plug-in devs) it will probably be a year before I try this upgrade myself.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by throwaway201103 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:11PM (#25103806)
Maybe because your computer immediately starts nagging you to do it, and the messaging from the popular tech media is "stay up to date because hackerz"
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by Nextgrid on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:07PM (#25105384)
Since Catalina the "softwareupdate --ignore" command no longer works unless you have an enterprise MDM profile installed, so you can't even work around that anymore.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by astronautjones on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:53PM (#25107790)
it's such nonsense, especially if you are even remotely computer literate. I'm working on an article about it, but I used snow leopard for 12 years with no ill effects (until this year!) and only finally left it because of the tyranny of HDCP
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by breakfastduck on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:25PM (#25104482)
I've not been nagged to upgrade once
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by rubicon33 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:56PM (#25104208)
Often because the OS won't stop alerting you all the time that you have an update.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:12PM (#25104358)
Mac OS is not Windows, it doesn’t install automatically and the prompts are much more reasonable.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by biktor_gj on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:49PM (#25104683)
That is not true since Mojave. It will always tell you you have a pending update, it will dump a notification to update to Big Sur (already happened to me this morning), and it'll do it's best to confuse you to update.

Case in point: if you have catalina and you go to system preferences, system updates, you will have the big sur update in big, then some text on the bottom of the window saying something like "there are some other updates..." and then you'll see the security updates for your current OS

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Sunday November 15, 2020 @04:34PM (#25105103)
Compared to Windows where the upgrade happens automatically.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by calciphus on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:21PM (#25105496)
Saying "windows is worse" doesn't really mean Apple is fine here. This isn't a post about how a forced Windows update is bricking Microsoft-built hardware with no guaranteed rollback or recovery path.

This is a post about how a major software update from a vendor is breaking their own hardware, and from a company that prides itself on not needing to be a computer expert to use their products.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Monday November 16, 2020 @03:51AM (#25109557)
> Saying "windows is worse" doesn't really mean Apple is fine here.

That’s why I didn’t say that.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by cute_boi on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:19PM (#25105473)
windows also doesn't upgrade windows 8 to windows 10 like this . windows 10 to windows 10 isn't that breaking change so its fair and osx is not better than this since mojave.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Monday November 16, 2020 @08:51AM (#25111576)
Except it does, which is why people made tools like this:

https://appuals.com/stop-windows-7-from-upgrading-to-windows...

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by neogodless on Monday November 16, 2020 @02:08PM (#25115668)
I guess because I've always used Professional, I have never been surprised or forced by an update.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by happymellon on Monday November 16, 2020 @02:39AM (#25109131)
Yes it does. I get notifications that there is an update for MacOS and it will be applied tonight unless I hit the notification and tell it not to or apply immediately.

I have come to my MacBook Pro and found it on the Enter Password boot screen after it decided to reboot overnight, and then helpfully tells me about the security update it did.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Monday November 16, 2020 @03:52AM (#25109576)
You can turn automatic updates on or off. If they are turned on, they are automatic.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by happymellon on Monday November 16, 2020 @04:04AM (#25109645)
The point is the gpp

> Mac OS is not Windows, it doesn’t install automatically and the prompts are much more reasonable.

It does by default.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by tinus_hn on Monday November 16, 2020 @05:50AM (#25110281)
A significant difference is that on one OS you can change the setting from the default, while on the other you can’t.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by Rebelgecko on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:40PM (#25105660)
I have a prompt to update on my Catalina machine that can't be permanently dismissed, only slept until the next morning
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by discreditable on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:32PM (#25105598)
I use Windows but I jump on every new release. I like new stuff and I have backups. If it goes bad I just reformat and restore. I have only been burned once.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by dimeatree on Sunday November 15, 2020 @04:06PM (#25104838)
When developing for iOS sometimes you are forced to update because you can't run the latest simulator for e.g.

A huge pet peeve.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by jlgaddis on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:19PM (#25105477)
A pet peeve of mine is incorrect usage of e.g. (and i.e.).

https://www.aje.com/arc/editing-tip-using-eg-and-ie/

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by bigmattystyles on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:14PM (#25103839)
Isn’t security the biggest reason for most? Also I work for a medium sized company and at least on a windows domain with GPO, they can lock down which windows updates are applied. Does anything like that exist for MacOS shops? Can IT control what is allowed to be applied and what is not?
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by jlgaddis on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:42PM (#25104086)
> Isn’t security the biggest reason for most?

I don't think that's the biggest reason to upgrade to a new major (or even minor) version, especially when the previous release(s) are still supported for quite some time.

Catalina, macOS 10.15, for example, didn't stop being supported when Bug Sur, 11.0, was released. In fact, it will still be supported for quite some time. Mojave, 10.14, is supported until late next year and, High Sierra, 10.13, is still supported even today!

Unless there's some new feature that you absolutely just must have, there just really isn't any compelling enough reason for most folks to immediately upgrade to a new .0 release.

In the Windows world, the conventional wisdom -- for probably a decade and a half! -- has been to wait until after SP1 to move to a new major version.

Maybe the younger generation just hasn't been burned (bad) enough (yet) for them to learn not to touch the stove?

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by happymellon on Monday November 16, 2020 @02:43AM (#25109153)
But in every other world you can always boot from a recovery USB and fix it, nothing is usually "bricked". Not so with newer Mac's so the risk has intensified.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by alwillis on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:42PM (#25104626)
Can IT control what is allowed to be applied and what is not?

Sure can. But that's true only if these machines are part of IT's infrastructure, which is usually the case at large companies.

A lot of places are BYOD and don't have employee Macs on Active Directory.

For $20 bucks, any office or group with a spare Mac can use macOS Server to control this stuff: https://www.apple.com/macos/server/features/

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by throwaway201103 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:33PM (#25104010)
Typically they will use Caspar, now called Jamf Pro.

https://www.jamf.com/products/jamf-pro/

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by userbinator on Sunday November 15, 2020 @06:01PM (#25105815)
Isn’t security the biggest reason for most?

Given some of the horrible security bugs found very shortly after the last few versions of MacOS were released... I strongly disagree.

The saying about known unknowns and unknown unknowns is quite relevant.

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by mobilemidget on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:11PM (#25103810)
Curiosity mainly I guess.

The update did take longer than indicated. At some points I wondered if both my iMac and mbp were not locked up, but as I was doing other things I just let them take their time. I wonder if those people rebooted mid update or some

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by wizzard on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:57PM (#25104219)
When I updated my old MBP to Catalina it was pretty ugly as well. There were a couple of points where I thought it was stalled, or it would reboot multiple times back into the same exact screen and it seemed to be failing, but it did eventually succeed. I had to keep myself from messing with it.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by fortran77 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:52PM (#25104166)
Blame the victim?
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by spacemanmatt on Monday November 16, 2020 @07:30AM (#25110847)
Adoption starts somewhere
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by Lt_Riza_Hawkeye on Sunday November 15, 2020 @04:06PM (#25104836)
Average time between when a security bug is introduced in the linux kernel and when it detected is 5 years. [0] But because people don't update their shit, 99.9% of exploits in the wild involve bugs that were patched over a year ago. [0]

If apple fixed a security bug in big sur, I'd like to update sooner rather than find out in a CVE next month that I should have actually upgraded ASAP.

That said, waiting at least a few days to see if any problems shake out is probably a good idea.

[0]: https://paragonie.com/blog/2016/10/guide-automatic-security-...

Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by eznzt on Sunday November 15, 2020 @04:19PM (#25104975)
Bug fixes are backported to older releases. You don't have to update to Big Sur to have bugs fixes.
Re:macOS Big Sur Update Bricking Some Older MacBook Pro Models by viraptor on Sunday November 15, 2020 @04:42PM (#25105173)
Yup, still receiving them on Mojave and not planning to move past that.