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Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by ronyeh on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:36PM (#24938883)
I think intermittent fasting is easier to implement for the average person. It's much easier to tell someone that they can eat as much as they want, but only between 6-8pm (one meal a day). It's difficult to tell someone you can eat 3 meals but no more than 1500 calories in total. Once I start eating, I don't want to stop (until I'm full). But the point at which I'm full is way beyond my calorie limit if I am eating 3 meals a day.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by erklik on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:46PM (#24938942)
> until I'm full

and I've learnt that it's very hard to know when you're satisfied in terms of hunger, and full in terms of desire.

The level of food required to satiate my hunger seems to be quite different from when I am "full".

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by mrslave on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:35AM (#24939202)
Doing a 1-2 meal, 800 calorie/day diet for 8 weeks helped me to figure this out. The hard adjustment period was only for the first week. I then realized small and fewer meals was sufficient.

Not that the remainder was easy, but it was a different kind of struggle - and noticeably easier than the first week.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by stjohnswarts on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:29AM (#24939449)
800 is far too low for that amount of time unless you weight like 80lbs. 1200 calories at least to stop your body from using muscle for sustenance.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by patrickk on Friday October 30, 2020 @03:13AM (#24939883)
> 1200 calories at least to stop your body from using muscle for sustenance.

This is only true up to a point. A colleague put me onto a fasting method called “Buchinger’s Fasting”. I fasted for around a week and a half, muscle maintenance was not a concern. After 3 days, your body burns through the glucose reserves and you get brain fog. After that, indeed, your body tried to break down muscle mass for fuel. The trick is to do some moderate exercise to keep your muscles in good condition. After a few days, your body finally turns to your fat reserves, and rapidly starts burning away fat. After the first 3 or so days, you actually become numb to the hunger and go into a slightly “high”, hunter gatherer alert mode that enabled our ancestors to search for food when hungry. It really brings home that being hungry and not being fed constantly is a normal part of human existence, and the industrial era, shoving food down our gullets constantly is making us sick and prevents natural healing within our bodies.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by chiefgeek on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:11AM (#24942342)
I assume that is from Buchinger Clinic in Germany? I watched a documentary (can’t remember the name) about fasting that claims it is more commonplace in Europe than elsewhere. They also claimed the Soviets studied it for years with favorable results.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by patrickk on Sunday November 01, 2020 @04:11AM (#24958217)
Yeah it's from Germany. I can personally attest to its effectiveness. Another colleague who is approaching retirement does it twice per year or so, and he's in great shape and looks great for his age. It was very eye-opening to see that and then to experience it.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by sabujp on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:26AM (#24943230)
ahh here's how to do it, you don't need to go to buchinger:

https://youtu.be/_ZG6lCgpPcA?t=480

wake up, do exercise, drink warm beverage, work, wait for hunger, eat breakfast/midday, take a powernap, work, last meal at 5-6pm.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by boltzmann_brain on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:40AM (#24942694)
This aligns exactly with my experience. The body is very reluctant to turn into fat reserves, as they the best source of energy and must be conserved. As you said, exercise helps, and another trick to eat some carbs every three or so days to convince your body to start burning fat.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by TheMightyLlama on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:02PM (#24945079)
How does eating carbs convince your body to start consuming fat?
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by ensiferum on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:33PM (#24945422)
Presumably by giving the signal that "food is available" and the system can break out of the hypocaloric energy preservation state. The problem is that the fat deposits are extremely valuable (in a non overweight person) and as one enters a hypocaloric state they become more valuable. I.e your body will rather throttle down metabolism and energy levels farther than start breaking down the fat for energy. Eating some carbs can healp to break this pattern.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by mcdevilkiller on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:13PM (#24946420)
I don't think the body works like that. After you eat carbs, your insulin level goes up and the cells get the glucose in them. If there's more than they can take, it is put into the adipose tissue as fat. Eating carbs once every 3 days is in no way telling the body that there is enough food, quite the contrary actually (all this is just my opinion).
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by joemazerino on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:40PM (#24948733)
This carb refeed reset "tricks" your leptide hormones to burning through energy reserves rather than putting the body through a catatonic (muscle burning) state. This is why the "Cheat" meal or day is an important step to sustaining body fat loss through elongated periods.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by frank2 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @06:18PM (#24955657)
"catabolic", not "catatonic".
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by ab8 on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:58PM (#24938998)
The more you are used to eating in an average meal, the longer it takes to feel "full".
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by lotsofpulp on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:18AM (#24939115)
Also, it takes time for the chemical reactions in your body to tell you you are full, so if you eat a little bit, and stop for 15 min, you might very well find that you are full.

However, once the taste buds are firing, it’s pretty hard to stop eating mid meal. One way is to take a little bit of food away from all the other food, eat it, and then force yourself to sit there while your blood sugar catches up to tell you if you still need more.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by OGWhales on Friday October 30, 2020 @08:21AM (#24941455)
Growing up my mom would make me wait to get a second serving to see if I was really hungry. It was effective
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by Cro_on on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:35AM (#24939201)
I find it easier to eat nothing for three days than to ration my meals. Though I'm sure this kind of response is pretty much hard wired tbh
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by varrock on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:40AM (#24939230)
> it takes time for the chemical reactions in your body to tell you you are full

This is why I suppose I don't enjoy eating when I am "starving" as we like to say when we haven't eaten in a while. I am so hungry that I can't even enjoy the meal because the hunger pangs I am feeling don't subdue until I am practically done with the meal, and sometimes, even afterwards.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by hutzlibu on Friday October 30, 2020 @05:20AM (#24940494)
One of the reasons, why it is a good idea to eat slowly.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by cvhashim on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:47AM (#24942765)
Along those lines, nutritionist suggest to eat without distractions.

Near impossible these days, I just had toast and coffee while scrolling through HN.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by jasonv on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:13PM (#24943749)
I count calories.

Eating while watching TV doesn't impact my eating choices.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by blastro on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:07AM (#24939621)
very good point
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by Barrin92 on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:03AM (#24939335)
>It's much easier to tell someone that they can eat as much as they want, but only between 6-8pm (one meal a day).

If eating is part of your social or work life as it is for most people then not really. Or you're going to sit there sipping water while your family or your colleagues eat or have drinks which is miserable

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by hombre_fatal on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:20AM (#24939407)
Though that's also a self-limiting belief. It might seem lame the first week of going out to lunch with coworkers and sticking to water, but in my experience you get over it quickly. The fun part is the conversation, not entirely that everyone is spooning food into their acid sacs at the exact same moment.

You can also adjust your fasting windows to include one meal with family (as the person your responded to suggested, but you didn't actually reply to). Or only fast every other day. If you're fasting for a reason like to lose weight, then you'll have to decide if the goal is worth it to you.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by rconti on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:16AM (#24939657)
It just depends entirely on your mentality. Some folks are much better at moderating than abstaining, others are the opposite. If you tell me to drink 10% less, I virtually cannot do it. If you tell me to never touch a drop of alcohol again in my life, I just say "bummer!" and get on with it.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by manicorganic on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:49AM (#24939796)
Plenty of recovered alcoholics can be around family that drinks (responsibly). Smokers who quit don't have to run away whenever someone lights up in front of them. I quit both (with longstanding addiction issues), and within a few weeks I was able to join family dinners where everyone else drinks and my brother smokes. NBD.

If people can endure that, then people can still be social at mealtimes and just get used to drinking some water or tea or whatever while they fast. Or coffee, mmmmm. They might feel a bit put out at first during lunch, but then again might enjoy the looks they get during dinner when they get to chow down with abandon. The big thing would be waiting until you're comfortable with the fasting so you're not making everyone around you uncomfortable with your body language (or worse, complaining or otherwise drawing attention to it).

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by foepys on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:04AM (#24939605)
Fasting is not easy. If you didn't restrict calories before and now want to lose weight quickly, you have to make some sacrifices.

If your social and/or work life heavily depends on eating together it might be part of the "problem" of why you need to lose weight in the first place.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by vladvasiliu on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:41AM (#24939748)
> If your social and/or work life heavily depends on eating together it might be part of the "problem" of why you need to lose weight in the first place.

This! My last boss used to be a "bon-vivant" guy, meaning he would particularly enjoy a nice meal with the occasional wine to go with it (please note this is pretty common in France) [0].

Two years after joining his team, I had gained quite some weight. I figured I had to eat less somehow, but I never had the impression that I was overeating. I also didn't want to skip to those meals with him. So I tried a few things:

* Pace myself with the wine. We would usually split a bottle among us. I actually enjoy wine, but don't particularly enjoy being tipsy, especially when I have to work. So win-win-win (see below)

* If there was some fruit available have that instead of cake, or skip desert altogether. Drinking the wine slowly leaves me with "something to do" while the others have desert, so they don't feel any pressure to hurry up.

* Go for more "filling" meals, meaning I looked for dishes with a bunch of vegetables. This would keep me full longer and I'd be less hungry in the evening, so also eating less. Another bonus is that I'd feel /really/ full and actually not want desert.

What I've found is that even though in the beginning the others would comment on my not having desert, they actually stopped having it themselves after a little while. The wine never actually went away, but we would occasionally only have a glass instead of a whole bottle.

The point is that I think people may feel there's a certain expectation to have a lunch a certain way. And it may be true in the sense that "it's common, so people expect it". But if you don't fully conform to it there doesn't seem to be any issue, pretty much no one seems to care [1] (except maybe if you think that you have to adhere to the expectation).

All this being said, I do appreciate that for people who enjoy nice meals it can be difficult to choose those "restrictions", especially when they're right in front of you.

[0] There never was any pressure to go along, especially since he was the kind to actively avoid talking shop at lunch. But, as the team would go out with him, I would have missed out on getting to know them. I should note that I'm not particularly outgoing and rather focused on my job, so random chats during the day wasn't exactly something I'd spontaneously do.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by anigbrowl on Friday October 30, 2020 @01:39AM (#24939492)
Most Muslims seem to manage it annually.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by hyperbovine on Friday October 30, 2020 @03:31AM (#24939943)
Because everyone they know is doing it as well, that is exactly OPs point. Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have a much harder time with Ramadan, I know this from personal experience.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by redis_mlc on Friday October 30, 2020 @05:43AM (#24940613)
Not really. They gorge themselves at night, so unlimited calories basically.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by cvhashim on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:50AM (#24942805)
That’s true, and it sort of misses the point of Ramadan.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by noja on Friday October 30, 2020 @02:28AM (#24939698)
Exactly, but let's be realistic here: all that other eating between and all those meals that are not social meals - they can go.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by egman_ekki on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:12AM (#24940151)
> 14 subjects with metabolic syndrome who fasted (no eating or drinking) from dawn to sunset for more than 14 h daily for four consecutive weeks

it says no drinking as well, so not sure about the water, but I was surprised to read it, maybe they just meant drinks other than water.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by matwood on Friday October 30, 2020 @08:00AM (#24941300)
Most IF practitioners say drinks to mean any caloric drinks. Plain coffee is ok to some and not others. Most think diet drinks are not ok because they can cause similar responses on the body as ingesting calories.

I IF from post-dinner to lunch every day, and only drink water and plain coffee.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by skinnymuch on Friday October 30, 2020 @07:36AM (#24941174)
I dislike eating. That’s a known thing about me. No one would bat an eye if I did exactly that - water should other eat.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by tootie on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:56AM (#24942874)
Just anecdotal, but I did 12-8 fasting for a few months and it was not at all effective. I was starving half the day and didn't lose any weight at all. Mornings were tough and I was achy and cranky by 11am. 3 months in and my body never adjusted. I switched back to a normal meal schedule and felt better and didn't change weight up or down.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by pbrb on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:44AM (#24943406)
I've come to think this really depends on the person. I realized that I naturally intermittent fast, because it seems to work the best for me. Normally I eat my last meal of the day ~ 8pm, and nothing but coffee, tea, or water until 11am or 12pm the next day. The only time I eat something in the mornings is if I'm doing a workout or something active early in the day. Occasionally I'll feel hungry and eat something, but otherwise, I normally feel sluggish and slow if I eat breakfast. For my other meals, I actually eat a ton of food, around 2,500 calories on average.

On the flip side, I know multiple people who have tried the same and have your exact experience. Oddly enough, three of them had tried keto and had great results where I personally didn't. I know there's no real correlation there, just thought it was interesting. Try keto maybe?

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by gvhst on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:00PM (#24943592)
If you start to restrict carbohydrate intake this helps with the low energy and irritability in my opinion. Been doing a 18-6 fasting since May (with some cheat days) and feel incredible.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by kaesar14 on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:23AM (#24943201)
Do you have to get up quite early in the morning? Only reason I ask is because half the day being the time until 12 is surprising -- after your midday meal, if you've constructed your meal properly, you should ideally not be hungry until dinner. I think IF needs to be paired with a mindfulness about what you're eating -- having toast with butter for lunch will not work.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by tootie on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:46PM (#24946731)
Usually like 7:30. Had to get kids to school. I always eat pretty wholesome food with lots of whole grain and vegetable. When I was doing IF, I needed a big lunch to regain my senses and frequently didn't make it to 6PM without needing another dose of food. I suspect I was fitting my normal calorie intake in that window. If the goal was to somehow trick my metabolism into wanting fewer calories, I don't think it worked at all.
Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by tripzilch on Sunday November 01, 2020 @07:28AM (#24958998)
> Once I start eating, I don't want to stop (until I'm full).

Did you ever try, waiting 10 minutes?

You eat a little, food gets in your stomach, after 10 minutes the message "I'm full" is sent.

The point is, you won't feel full until those 10 minutes pass. But you don't need continue eating during those 10 minutes.

I'm just asking because if you always do, you might be under the impression that it requires 10 minutes of sustained eating, to stop feeling full.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by johanneskanybal on Friday October 30, 2020 @07:55AM (#24941270)
Well that depends on what you eat ofcourse! If you’re concious about what you put in yourself designing meals that you won’t be able to finish is easy! (think bodybuilders fish and broccoli as an example or a bit of meat and tonns of cabbage etc).

Fasting is ”easier” because you can get away with caring less about that stuff though.

Re:Intermittent fasting from dawn to sunset induces anticanc... by ptd on Friday October 30, 2020 @08:10AM (#24941366)
You also get to eat good food, even if it’s only for one meal a day.