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Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by systemvoltage on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:06PM (#24805860)
I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by serf on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:12PM (#24805904)
>I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV?

I watch it because I drive/drove race cars. I love auto-racing. I love the noise, the personalities, and most importantly the cars.

I can't answer your question, really. If there isn't any draw to watch it, you probably just don't enjoy it. No shame in that.

I don't really understand why people watch football/basketball/soccer; but I understand why I don't get it -- I have no interest in the sports.

My father watches the Tour de France every year. He was an extremely in-depth established cyclist for years and years.

When I watch the Tour with him, I fall asleep. He falls asleep if I put him through auto-racing.

I think it's the same kind of thing.

If it's any consolation : your problem is a widespread one. The FIA is trying to make it more spectator-interesting next year by establishing a big wall of rule changes.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by porknubbins on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:44PM (#24806108)
I was going to say the Tour de France is the prime example of sports most people who are not road cyclists find intolerable to watch. Maybe its just hard to grasp how powerful the aerodynamic forces are without having ridden in a high speed pace line, but lots of people watch car racing without driving 200 mph either.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by ihaveajob on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:25PM (#24806370)
Even then, the interest tends to be in key moments and stages. A final sprint, a hard climb, a segment with side wind or cobblestones. Back in the 90s, during Indurain's dominance, just about everyone in Spain tuned in to watch, but other than special moments, most people dozed off the afternoon nap.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by systemvoltage on Saturday October 17, 2020 @02:01AM (#24807753)
Thanks for the take. I really enjoy Chess. I feel like I can do some calculations and see if I can guess what theyll play next. I like Rapid chess which is 15 mins per player which strikes a good balance between Blitz and classical time controls.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by userbinator on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:59PM (#24806182)
Even within motorsport, not everyone likes F1. For example, I find it rather boring compared to drag races and sprint cars. No doubt others will be the complete opposite.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by eaurouge on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:39PM (#24806068)
Pretty much every popular somewhat global sport has levels of nuance, detail, backstory that will take some investment in time and interest for you to become familiar with. If the sport doesn’t immediately draw you in, don’t feel you have to keep watching in hopes that it eventually does. This is my current thesis for global sports, especially those with an audience as large as F1’s. “There’s something they get out of it that I can’t see .. and would never see because I don’t have the time to invest in it”.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by raicem on Saturday October 17, 2020 @03:29AM (#24808134)
Fantastic explanation. Sums up my feelings.

I don't know why I watch the every single race. I got into it because I liked the engine noise. I happened to see young Kimi Raikkonen getting into the McLaren car. That was a nice story to follow. I started to pickup other stories. Newey moving to Red Bull, rule changes, Alonso moving to Ferrari, Vettel moving to Ferrari and here I am.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by juststeve on Friday October 16, 2020 @10:11PM (#24806937)
International Test Cricket is another one, a single match can be 5 days, but within that are lots of battles - especially on days 1 to 3.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by me_smith on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:45PM (#24806117)
I understand this sentiment as someone that never understood the allure of watching racing in general. However, I have recently been watching F1 with my father-in-law who is a huge F1 fan due to his own car and racing experience.

At first, it is just cars trying to be faster than the other which can be quite boring for 305km. But, when my father-in-law starts talking about the different strategies and choices being made, it puts a lot more color to what is happening. For instance, which tires to use (they have different types), when to do pit stops, how hard to push during different segments of the race, when to overtake, etc. Also, throw in some driver/team drama in the mix and you have some interesting meta game going on.

Similarly in basketball, it is just a bunch of people running up and down the court trying to get the ball in the hoop more than the other team. Kind of boring. However, the strategies, plays and player personalities/drama that get you to the end result make it more interesting. When to full court press, when should a foul be made, when to rotate players, etc.

It gets much more interesting once the rules/strategies are clear. In F1, I think it takes a little longer to get to that point because sometimes the action can be spread out over a longer period. It is interesting to see what choices are being made in different situations.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by AmericanChopper on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:40PM (#24806084)
The current rules have made the sport a bit boring. A result of the current regulations is that the better you build your aerodynamics, the more turbulence you create behind your car, which means the harder it is for another car to follow closely behind you, which means less over taking.

It also doesn’t help that one team currently has the best car by a very significant margin. They also have the best driver, and the two teams that were closest to them have fallen further behind this season (one significantly further behind).

The midfield battles are actually still quite exciting though. Those cars are a lot closer together in terms of performance, and if anything happens to one of the top 3 drivers, you can see somebody fighting for a potentially career first podium. Which is why the TV coverage will barely cover the front of the pack in most races, because the front 3 cars typically spend the whole race driving at the end of each other dirty air without fighting each other at all.

This post is very highly subjective though. This year you have LeClerc making the Ferrari (which is widely regarded as a very bad car at the moment) actually look good, and his team mate (4 time world champion Sebastian Vettel) is making it look terrible. It’s been the same story at Red Bull with Verstappen and all of his recent team mates. You’ve also got the best and worst team running the same engine.

As a side note, Kimi is currently driving one of the worst cars on the grid, so you probably wouldn’t expect much excitement from him.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by ldd on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:26PM (#24805994)
This may be a meta answer, but I think it's not really about the race most of the time.

It's either about childhood memories of seeing it, remembering your friends that are far away, or having deep technical knowledge about the cars or something like that.

I used to think I didn't really like sports until I started going to bars to see Starcraft II matches. I still have good memories about it and my friends back then.

And sure, some sports have more action than others, but at the end of the day, people have feelings and sports can deeply affect people. That's not a very logical answer, but I hope others can vouch that it sorta makes sense.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by Icathian on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:25PM (#24806376)
This really resonates with me. I never understood why my mom would spend whole sundays with football on, but have probably watched 20 hours of worlds for league of legends in the last two weeks. I play with my friends and have for 10 years, it's part of who I am. It seems silly, I imagine, but it seems like it must be the same thing for me as it always was for her.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by shwoopdiwoop on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:06PM (#24806230)
Have a look at F1 - Drive to survive on Netflix. I never considered myself to be “into” F1, and this series really opened my eyes to the sport and everything that goes into a race.

It provides a view that normal TV doesn’t give you, but will have you watch the regular TV broadcast of races with very different eyes.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by peferron on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:14PM (#24806284)
Same here! Among many other things, it was amazing to see the amount of fighting in the midfield. It's really not just about who takes first place.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by TedShiller on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:22PM (#24805956)
Same with NFL. I understand the sport is interesting, exciting, and has complex strategies. However, why do people care about which team wins? The players are traded freely among teams, and all teams are owned by the same business. So for example the San Francisco 49ers have very little to do with San Francisco, except for the name. If the San Francisco 49ers win, it has very little to do with San Francisco.

The Economist had an excellent article about the NFL's structure, and how it operates like a cartel, pressuring cities with varies financial threats and incentives.

https://www.economist.com/business/2006/04/27/in-a-league-of...

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by abdullahkhalids on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:26PM (#24805993)
The ape part of the human brain cares intensely about joining a tribe, any tribe that it can identify with and be part of, and then blindly being loyal to it, while cheering the downfall of all other tribes.

If you let yourself go into the fiction of sports teams, and don't think about it too much, you can have very strong (and hopefully positive) emotional experiences.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by Thlom on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:58PM (#24806177)
Born to love a mediocre soccer team. They were always playing in the second or third tier when I was growing up, but just as I turned 18 they took the step up to the top tier. There were some years going up and down before they kind of stabilized in the top tiers seven won two cup finals (best days of my life), but it’s been downhill since then. I would say 10% positive emotions, 30% neutral and 60% negative emotions all in all. But what can you do? It’s not like you can change teams.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by pacamara619 on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:30PM (#24806017)
This is why football is so popular in Europe, every club has at least some players from the area in the most popular clubs. Every other club nearly only has players from the area. If you are from a town/city you very well might know a player's family, giving you the "connection" to cheer for that team.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by bronxbomber92 on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:42PM (#24806098)
> The players are traded freely among teams Yes, this happens more often than in the past, but there are still many players and staff that stay with an organization for an extended period of time (e.g. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick).

> all teams are owned by the same business What do you mean? Each team has a different owner.

> So for example the San Francisco 49ers have very little to do with San Francisco, except for the name' In many geographical regions, you grow up watching the team that is closest in proximity. e.g. I grew up in rural western New York State and I grew up watching the Buffalo Bills because they were the closest franchise despite being 100 miles away.

The name is just a semantic. Would you be happier if the 49ers were called the "Northern California 49ers"?

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by JacobDotVI on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:13PM (#24806277)
There is an American baseball team that started their life as Florida Marlins. The thinking was that they would establish this tribe mentality for all of Florida. After years of not great results in that regard they changed their name to the Miami Marlins for the same reason - to better establish a tribe. They haven’t moved locations, they are just re-targeting their brand
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by aleksandrm on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:35PM (#24806045)
And yet the fans would still burn the city down if they won, regardless of the actual relation.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by currymj on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:26PM (#24805998)
It used to be more exciting.

Overtaking is particularly exciting but there is less of it now, because being behind another car means turbulence and modern cars are too aerodynamically sensitive. Also, nowadays a few big teams dominate and there is no hope for the underdog.

Even now, though, playing a racing game will make it clear how difficult it is to drive these cars and that makes the boring parts of the race more compelling to watch.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by girvo on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:10PM (#24805891)
I watch the first few laps intently: there’s lots of overtaking, tactics and contact. I then tune out and leave it on in the background until the last few laps.

Sort of like how I watch Cricket actually

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by abraae on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:17PM (#24805923)
Watching cricket is an art in itself.

I once spent 5 days watching a test match at the basin reserve in Wellington, fueled with plenty of beer.

From day 4 it was obvious the match was heading for a draw and so it did.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by systemvoltage on Saturday October 17, 2020 @02:02AM (#24807761)
TIL Cricket lasts 5 days wtf.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by rasz on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:43PM (#24806501)
F1 stopped being fun to watch 20 years ago, after all the stupid rules. Overtaking, DRS, tires that make you slower, qualifying changing every year.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by eVoLInTHRo on Saturday October 17, 2020 @01:09AM (#24807591)
Here's my guess:

- It's televised Sunday mornings (at least here in America), and it's way more interesting than anything else on at that time.

- It's a soap opera/drama, but socially acceptable for men to watch. You've got all the classic story tropes there (intra-/inter-team rivalries, underdog/favorite, hotshot newcomer/grizzled veteran, rich vs poor, etc.)

- People are inherently intrigued by man + machine collaborations, kids too. I didn't appreciate this until I hung around my friends' kids, and saw their amazement at any moving vehicle. Then I remembered, yes, I was once one of those kids.

With that said, I think F1 as a motorsport is pretty boring.

- If you're in it for the racing, I'd rather watch Indycar, which has the same or better racing with open-wheeled cars at 1/10th the price.

- If you're in it to see car technology translate to your road car, probably should watch a GT series instead.

- If you're in it for the technological innovation, none of those things get shared to viewers. As a data person, I would love to see how the sausage gets made, like how they translate learnings from the simulator to the real track, or the the trial & error in tweaking their aero or engine configs, CFD, etc. But for obvious sporting reasons, they can't. Like you can notice that Mclaren's nose is different, you just don't know why. Knowing why is the more interesting part IMO.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by grecy on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:30PM (#24806016)
Some number of years ago they figured out that in an entire season there was a single-digit number of overtakes for the lead.

Many of that changes to the F1 rules in the last 10-15 have been an attempt to create more overtaking and "drama", but unfortunately as you said it hasn't really worked out that way.

More often than not races are won with good strategy and pit stops, not overtaking or interesting battles on the track.

Dad and I used to watch it a lot back around the late 90s/early 00s. These days I watch zero.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by mhh__ on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:34PM (#24806039)
Presumably you saw Gasly win a race, yes? If you haven't go and watch it, if that doesn't excite you don't bother
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by moron4hire on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:10PM (#24805889)
I think Twain explains it best: http://mrbazilewich.weebly.com/uploads/6/2/0/4/6204690/twain...

You see things differently when you know how they work.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by dogman1050 on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:18PM (#24806316)
It's easier to understand if you've attended a live race. The visual, aural and olfactory impressions of the cars are breathtaking. That, and the fact that the drivers are largely trying to cover ground as fast as they can without sliding off the track is what fascinates me. I have done some club-level open wheel racing realize that the drivers are constantly on the edge of crashing. If they could go faster, they would.

The cars largely determine the success of the endeavor. It's often that following qualifying, the grid is composed of team cars side-by-side for at least the first few rows. There are exceptional drivers who break the pattern and all but carry the car around on their back like Verstappen and Leclerc.

The car technology is genuinely fascinating to me, but I'm a gearhead anyway.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by actuator on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:47PM (#24806527)
I am not sure if this was something recent, if it was I can understand why someone new might find no point in it. F1 right now is going through one of the most dominating periods by a single team. While in initial days of Mercedes dominance after V6 switch, I could admire their engineering, now it just feels boring as they are so good that no team is able to compete on engineering.

But it is not like you can't appreciate other drivers. See the magnitude of difference in result that Verstappen is able to add. I think he is probably the best driver right now in F1.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by briefcomment on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:19PM (#24806321)
Sports are a lot more enjoyable the more you empathize with the athletes, and the more you experience what's happening viscerally. I've never watched F1 before, and I could feel the excitement, concentration, and anxiety when I watched a video on YouTube.

You can increase your ability to empathize with the athletes by playing the sport. I couldn't have cared less about the NBA until I started playing pick up.

I still don't watch sports though. There are usually better things to do.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by jacobwilliamroy on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:36PM (#24806048)
You're supposed to get super drunk and eat snacks and shout at the TV and talk about life and stuff with your friends. Gambling can also help to alleviate boredom.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by throwdbaaway on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:55PM (#24806578)
Er, because of Martin Brundle? I watch a lot of F1 on TV and went to several live races, and for me F1 is more of a TV sports. The commentary makes a big difference, and also you get to see all the actions on TV (if the director is competent enough).
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by wolfspider on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:04PM (#24807151)
For me between 2000-2005 F1 was fun to watch though after 2005 there were too many regulations and all the cars were too similar. If you want to see some overtaking and drama those were some great races.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by beastieboyce on Saturday October 17, 2020 @11:59AM (#24810913)
F1 is more a soap opera for petrol enthusiasts. There's much better racing out there but F1 has the drama, or at least the reporting and coverage of every who said what about whom etc.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by scotu on Friday October 16, 2020 @08:08PM (#24806237)
It's obviously totally valid not to like it. I once went in person for a qualification and being on one spot on the track was not particularly great, I'm glad I experienced (for the real experience) but I prefer watching on tv where a director chooses where to go to show the best of the race every given moment.

Some reasons are more personal than others but here's my take (although I haven't been watching in the past 3 years):

1. Nostalgia, I used to watch F1 every race as a kid with my dad (we never had sports pay tv, and F1 was broadcasted free as opposed to soccer [I'm european]); we used to watch Moto GP too for that same reason and this are the only 2 motorsport I actually would still watch, I don't really have interest in any other, so this might be the most important factor.

2. races used to be more exciting, objectively: a combo of less technical/financial differences between teams, less safety rules, old school tracks (that seem to be better suited for overtakes for some reason) made it so that more drivers were able to compete for each specific position. Financial standing of a certain team is nowadays the number 1 predictor of success. Give today's mercedes to most drivers that can be called F1 drivers with a straight face and after getting to know the car they are going to do well, even compete with Hamilton. Same thing was probably true with Schumacher once he got to Ferrari (that was my nostalgia time, so it hurts to say): yes he was exceptional but 80% was the car (and arguably his ability to communicate what he/it needed to the engineers), 10% his instinct on setup/aerodynamic, 10% him being truly unique (at the time) on wet conditions.

3. pit stops, used to be more exciting (and dangerous with fuel refill) I suppose but I think it still brings a sparkle to the race, strategy and actual timing of the stops are a big moment that can make or break a driver race

4. one race is not a good measure for determining the overall excitement for the season: first of all there are better races and worse races; then overall there is some excitement from how much risk taking and calculation are involved in a race depending of current championship standings. Also, if you are so inclined there is drama in between races (usually not into that personally)

5. last, you said you followed Raikonnen: if you literally just watched 1 driver (not sure if it's possible, but I think so) by setting the camera only on his car, I'm sure you were doomed to boredom, the "race as a whole" is at least a bit fun on every race, but the race of a single driver? probably booooring: 2 hours and unless the driver somehow is fighting all the times (good car but classified last somehow?) there's going to be a lot of nothing going on.

Also races with mixed weather are very unpredictable and add a huge variable, making for usually awesome races in my opinion. Unfortunately they don't happen very often.