What I'm saying is, it's really easy for me to boil a dozen eggs, grill some chicken bits, and boil half a pack of brown rice or quinoa. A week's worth of food, the caloric density is astounding. I then only need to make salads or play with frozen veggies.

All of this is really cheap and quick to make. Almond/coconut/soy milk costs nearly three times as much as cow's milk in my country, and the substitute 'meats' are hard to find outside supermarkets. Veganism here might as well be money laundering. To my knowledge, beyond burgers and such food is still pricey in the USA as well, for instance.

I'm just pointing out what makes me consider vegetarianism or veganism is eating more food, better food, for less money, and less pretentious heat treatment. I'm not finding it right now. Hopeful for the future, though.

Dried beans, lentils, pulses and brown rice are cheap and dense in calories + protein. Throw some seasonal vegetables in when you have them. Eat some cut oats for breakfast. Nothing pretentious about that! You don't need all the processed meat substitutes, they're not especially healthy either. Also cows milk surely must be more expensive than oat milk to produce, but we all live in countries where dairy is heavily subsidized.

Cheerful meat-eater here. I think that, if you got your protein through legumes, that would be even cheaper than eggs. It would probably mean rearchitecting your food in general rather than using drop-in replacements.

One website says that the cheapest eggs on its list (Costco) are 70 grams of protein per dollar, while the cheapest beans (pinto) are 80 grams per dollar, and lentils are 116 grams per dollar. Hmm, that difference is smaller than I expected. https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/

That's awesome, however I also enjoy a varied diet. Thanks for the link.

Millions of people in India eat a very varied, inexpensive vegetarian diet. And their food tastes great.

I’d really like to see someone do the math on how many animals get killed growing plant-based meat substitutes. Mice sucked up when they harvest the corn, bugs sprayed with pesticides, etc.

Pasture-raised grass-fed beef might come out way better in comparison.

This makes it sound like plant based diets are much crueler than they make out to be - but that harm is surely still an order of magnitude reduced compared to farming animals?

One is collateral damage (mice sucked up etc.) but the other is _premised_ on death.

> but that harm is surely still an order of magnitude reduced compared to farming animals?

Probably true if you compare it to conventional cattle farming, as they're largely fed corn from fields.

I suspect pasture raised, grass fed animals have a vastly lower deaths-per-bite count than a veggie burger, though. I don't know that I subscribe to the "accidental deaths matter less" argument, either.

A wild animal that inadvertently dies is not the same as a caged animal that is killed.

But yes, even plant foods incur animal suffering. Vegans know. Much, much less though.

> Pasture-raised grass-fed beef might come out way better in comparison.

If you consider a bugs life equal to a cows life: yes. Most people dont. I kill bugs when I drive my car, if I'd kill cows at the same rate as bug when driving, I'd stop driving.

I see this kind of whataboutism almost every time people discuss the ethics of meat consumption and the surrounding industries. If growing plants commercially kills animals in the process then that's something else to examine but it doesn't change the fact that meat based industries are usually incredibly cruel.