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Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by yholio on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:25PM (#24601823)
The European Union should devote some of the untold billions they rain on farming subsidies and bailouts, and provide a EU-wide venture fund. YC model, other alumni and successful tech leaders select the most promising startups in a competitive bid for a fixed share ratio. This would do more for EU tech innovation that any other bureaucratic and academically driven initiatives had thus far.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by yholio on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:26PM (#24602272)
I think following any of those links and comparing them to the https://www.ycombinator.com/deal/ page is a good illustration of how these programs fail. The bureaucracy for applying is daunting. The Accelerator will not fund pure startup ideas, rather technologies that have reached TRL 6-8, so not just a proof of concept demo, but a functional system in real life environment. The European Innovation Council will fund prospective technologies but only in well specified areas of interest.

Most recent unicorns will simply not thrive in this environment, it's more catered to the professional grant seekers or already successful companies, that can absorb a financing round of 500k-2.5 mil €

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by znpy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:11PM (#24603420)
Well on one hand you have public money that have to be dispensed with fairness and in an accountable manner, on the other hand you have a random guy and his friends playing bets with their spare millions of dollars.

It's clear that there has to be some bureaucracy. If anything because you might want to do some auditing in the future.

PG and friends mostly spend their own money and they're free to do as they please, follow instinct or whatever.

You can't do that (thank god) with public money.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by rlonn on Sunday September 27, 2020 @02:01AM (#24604554)
Efficiency tend to be sacrificed on the altar of fairness though. Israel's Yozma initiative seems a usable compromise.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by luka-birsa on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:41AM (#24604959)
We've been funded by various research grants from EU as well asEU VC money.

Grants are bureaucracy, sure, but if you understand how you navigate it - and every entrepreneurial person shoud - then it's really free money with a bit of strings attached. But it's primarily used for seed purposes (vs. series A, B...) in new companies or as a suplement in existing companies.

EU also does investment matching (one of our VCs had half of his fund matched by the EU). Based on my experience, this is an even better model, since it derisks investmens for local VCs - the biggest problem in investing here is not the lack of funds, but insane risk aversion. It really feels like everybody is looking for stable and good performing businesses and not for investment opportunities that would be moon shots.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by raverbashing on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:42AM (#24604962)
That's an interesting discussion to have

From the 1st link there is https://ec.europa.eu/easme/en/news/deep-tech-europe-report-k... which claims that companies that received EIC funding have attracted 5Bi in private funding (the program is new so this is apparently a couple of years, maybe more)

By comparison: Total money raised by all YC companies: >$7 billion https://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-stats/

I think companies would apply for EIC later than on YC hence it might be apples to oranges but it's an interesting metric nonetheless

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by raverbashing on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:35PM (#24602352)
Well, comparing those grants to YC is a bit of apples to oranges. That being said, I don't think it's wrong for medium to large companies to apply for these grants, and the US also does offer grants.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by arka2147483647 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:08PM (#24602555)
The point is, that the grand-grand-parent proposed these programs AS a substitute for YC. Which they are not. Sure they may have other merit, but that is beside the point.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by oever on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:56PM (#24602487)
EU also does subgranting, with tiny amount of bureaucracy, ideal for single developers or small teams. e.g:

https://nlnet.nl/PET/

https://nlnet.nl/discovery

Deadline every 2 months, next one in four days. Support for improving existing FOSS projects as well as endeavoring new ones. Past recipients worked on Wireguard, Jitsi, NextCloud, LibreOffice, EteSync, Guix and many more: https://nlnet.nl/project/

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by LudwigNagasena on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:37PM (#24602365)
I don’t see anything that resembles a startup accelerator. Am I wrong? Are there examples of such companies?
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by INTPenis on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:17PM (#24602202)
This is a good list!

Besides these EU projects there are also national projects within EU member states. Like for example the NIC-SE foundation that manage the .se ccTLD tend to grant money to small startups.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by speedgoose on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:33PM (#24601881)
The EU already grants a lot of money for research and innovation.

You have the horizon 2020 and horizon Europe programs for example. It's not perfect of course but it works.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_Programmes_for_Res...

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by knuthsat on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:50PM (#24602012)
The EU is silly. Most of these grants are picked up by beurocrats that know how to get them and enrich themselves.

Best example is that big blue brain project in Switzerland that got billions even when the science was not there.

Universities are currently filled with bureaucrats that know how to win grants and produce no results.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by hocuspocus on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:04PM (#24603390)
The Blue Brain Project belongs to EPFL and is entirely funded internally; it's about 2% of EPFL's budget.

I'm not qualified to speak of the science behind the HBP but I know that a few labs in China and in the US (like the Allen institute) see some value in it. It's a big engineering project and maybe the end goal and result isn't what's important here. Pretty much like CERN.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:41PM (#24602385)
> Best example is that big blue brain project in Switzerland that got billions even when the science was not there.

It's the Human Brain Project, and it's 1 billion over 10 years. It is currently in year 7, and at the end, it will provide the AWS of neuroscience in Europe.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by yholio on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:18PM (#24602624)
Seems like they built a wonderful machine for answering "42":

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/ten-year...

Or will build, if they are granted the additional money they ask for past 2023: “The development of high-quality brain simulators requires a long-term commitment of resources”. We shall call it Deep Thought: the sunk-cost brain.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Sunday September 27, 2020 @04:35AM (#24605144)
the project is actually in 3 stages, the first 2 dubious, the one which just started in April is worth reconsidering, see my sibling comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24605138

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jacquesm on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:26PM (#24602668)
I think it will utterly fail. Some interesting spin-offs may still happen but the whole project is a great exercise in marketing, not so much in science.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Sunday September 27, 2020 @04:34AM (#24605138)
It's easy to write off as a failure, as doing so requires little to no engagement with the internal structure and struggle of the project, which is the largest in informatics and neuroscience that I am aware of. If you don't agree, please cite something else on the same scale.

I'm involved with HBP and other non-European and European national neuroscience projects (though I am neutral here, just a university-employed engineer), and the science in the recent phase (starting in April this year) is a complete break with preceding funding phase and on-par with other projects. The people leading the science subproject are actually leading PIs on the topics. For comparison, let's name Allen Institute, though Allen is more a monolith, whereas HBP is more like micro-services, with a high cost in coordination, but now a focus on "FAIR" aspects like open-ness and reusability.

The infrastructure side is also coming along, and will provide an AWS of neuroscience (6 national HPC sites, multi-zone OpenStack/OpenShift, 2 neuro-morphic platforms, neuro-robotics platform, federated IAM, metadata and object storage stack, dedicated clinical infrastructure, etc) , but the failure or success will depend a lot more on the larger community getting convinced to engage their workflows on the platform. If people collectively agree that it isn't worth using, then the infrastructure teams never get to justify the whole thing, and it will flop. In that sense, the marketing aspect is not a facade, but a necessary condition for HBP to become a EU RI.

Of course I have no chickens in the fight; if it flops I can keep writing my shitty works-on-my-computer codes for one off unreproducible research projects.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jacquesm on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:03AM (#24613751)
This is roughly where I stopped believing this was a serious project:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090904071908.h...

To make that claim in 2009 was complete and utter bullshit, if you've sold your project on grandiose claims like that then I don't think you are into science.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:48PM (#24620550)
The claim is clearly idiotic, and none of scientists I work with consider it requiring rebuttal. That’s also 11 years ago, same year Python 2.7 was first released. Markram isn’t in HBP since... 4 years and I think what we have in the final phase now is the people trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

Maybe my problem is that I don’t see myself as “believing” in the project or not: it’s easier to learn from failure in fact. If the whole thing fails, it will make the EU a little more cautious about the next potential flagship project. Which is presumably what all the FUD surrounding HBP is about.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jacquesm on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @03:11AM (#24624925)
It could easily cause a kind of AI winter just when there actually is progress in the field.

The EU should have insisted on believable deliverables. At the time I was highly critical about the claim, it being 11 years ago doesn't really matter to me, it was obvious that you could not extrapolate from the state of the art+a relatively limited amount of time to such a game changing deliverable (essentially: general AI).

I sincerely hope that you will be able to come up with enough results worth applying somewhere in real-life projects and products that in the end it will all be worth it. Best of luck to you.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @04:40PM (#24632695)
The winter is a good point, and it’s true there is a lot of overpromising even given the funding. We’ll see..
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by auggierose on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:06PM (#24602120)
Horizon 2020 does not work. It's all gobbled up by professional grant writers, not professional researchers.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by speedgoose on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:03AM (#24604143)
A professional researcher in Europe is a professional Horizon grant writer.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by auggierose on Sunday September 27, 2020 @10:47AM (#24607024)
A mediocre researcher in Europe is a professional Horizon grant writer. Here, fixed that for you.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by marmaduke on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:42PM (#24602395)
Not all the H2020 projects, at least.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by Lionga on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:45PM (#24601969)
Show any unicorn financed by the horizon billions the EU wastes on these programs. Never was never will be one. It just does not work
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by merightnow on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:55PM (#24602046)
The scope is not to produce "unicorns" but to drive innovation and R&D for all different kinds of projects. Those funds should not act as VC with the only purpose of growth, but it should fund sustainable innovative companies or open source foundations. Lately I've been seeing the EU founded logo on more and more extremely useful open source programs that everyone uses and which had no funding sources because of the lack of "extreme profit" in the horizon and that should be the results that this grants achieve.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jariel on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:04PM (#24602108)
"it should fund sustainable innovative companies or open source foundations."

Show material examples of this.

Also, the EU needs 'big companies' that employ a lot of people, pay high salaries, can afford to sustain complicated projects with know-how, to acquire and integrate other projects.

A nice batch of 'open source' projects that some people might use will not move the needle.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by p1necone on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:20PM (#24602234)
"the EU needs 'big companies' that employ a lot of people, pay high salaries, can afford to sustain complicated projects with know-how, to acquire and integrate other projects."

Why? Funding open source projects seems just as useful to me.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jariel on Saturday September 26, 2020 @10:05PM (#24603627)
Open Source is a small issue thing in the context of an entire economy.

It's nice to have some support for it, but it doesn't even lend well to that: it's very hard to know which projects to support until after the fact, of course we know that 99% of it is never even used. The kinds of people involved don't do it generally for money, and also have their own ambitions. What happens when you have a 'great piece of open source' that AirBus and Daimler really want to integrate, but the 'maintainer' just doesn't care to make the necessary changes? Or is against it? Or is only working 'now and then ? Or doesn't feel 'large corps should benefit' or whatever? It's a tricky space. Worth supporting, but it would take a very specialized team and frankly, not that much money.

Europe needs large industrial organizations because they are the lifeblood of the economy, in fact, the hallmark of advanced civilizations. You want to know the 'difference' between 'rich' and 'poor' Europe? In 'rich Europe' a far grater portion of the population works in corporations with >1K employees.

Only at a certain scale can a lot of activities be addressed: you can't make an airliner with all it's supply chain, IP, R&D, systems integration, training, support and the myriad of operational activities with 'open source' or even with 'small shops' or 'vc money'. A lot of know-how is embedded within these groups that given them competitive advantage, and of course, scale is necessary to be competitive at an international level especially in 'winner takes all' type markets.

EU investment in open source is nice, but it's a side-show. What EU needs is Googles & Salesforces etc..

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by thatguy0900 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:58PM (#24602506)
If you don't the big companies from other nations will take you over and flaunt your laws and regulations seems to be the answer
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by ponker on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:27PM (#24602670)
*flout
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by cblconfederate on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:04PM (#24602110)
I am participatingn in such a program now. Can confirm, it looks great on paper (and it's mostly about writing reports etc) but creating useful outputs is optional.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by speedgoose on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:04AM (#24604147)
Unicorns are perhaps not something to wish for.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by auganov on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:42PM (#24601947)
Or EU could stop ruining the market with all their current programs and deregulate. Most "startups" in the EU are nothing more than grant chasers. There's very little private VC money because of all the grants. Even legitimate projects that take these grants aren't necessarily any better for it because of all the overhead they introduce.

It's most pronounced in new EU countries that get flooded with these funds.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by mschuster91 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:10PM (#24602141)
> There's very little private VC money because of all the grants.

That's wrong. There are four real reasons:

1) our pension systems are mostly government run and on a rolling scheme (i.e. payments from current workers fund current pensioners, in exchange for future-redeemable points). That means that there is a lot less of "dumb cash" lying around in pension funds that screams to be invested for decades... historically that cash used to be put into "safe bets" such as government bonds but their returns are at below-inflation rates, and the only thing that is "profitable" is spreading out the cash over either the big tech companies or small startups.

2) networking. Just look who's in the "angel investor" rounds: people, both founders and early employees who got lots of money in the dotcom era or in the IPOs of the last years - they are all concentrated in the SV area, and enjoy the benefits of close personal contact, and then of course there is YC and a couple of less known clones which come in later. We simply do not have such networks in Europe.

3) risk aversity. Europeans do not like risk, the most obvious example being us Germans who are notorious for being risk averse, so risk averse that our car companies, 12 years after Tesla hit the market, still believe they can make "clean ICE" cars (by investing in synth-fuel tech). A side effect of that is the infamous Wirecard scandal - they were hyped so hard by everyone including our Chancellor who went lobbying in China simply because they were the only company other than dinosaur SAP who were German, were in digital business, and had (on the paper...) good business numbers.

4) "rags to riches" mentality: us Europeans have generally decent social security networks, stable government funded education - basically, you don't have that mentality, starting with young people, to "always hustle" to survive. We live mostly generally comfortable lives, but we're not driven to exploit whatever and wherever we can, simply because we don't need to.

The end result: we don't have venture capital simply because there has been no need for it for decades, it's only a recent trend here.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by ry454 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:38PM (#24602728)
I think all those investors and the tech activity in the SV area is a side effect of one big DoD's initiative: to build a world-class surveillance network with all the infra around it. They expressed this desire to spend trillions on this and a few companies who made it happen are now valued at 1-2 trillions. Attempts to replicate SV by "investing into startups" is like crafting a wooden airplane to summon goods.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by throwaway250 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:42PM (#24602396)
Some of your points make sense but some don’t. Pension funds in the US don’t invest in startups. Also founders of most American tech companies had a pretty comfortable upbringing. Most founders like Mark Zuckerberg or Travis Kalanick come from well-to-do families. So comfortable life doesn’t explain the risk aversion of Europeans.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by refurb on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:18PM (#24603450)
CALPERS the pension fund for CA govt workers certainly invests in venture capital, which invests in start ups.

https://www.calpers.ca.gov/page/investments/asset-classes/pr...

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by stingraycharles on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:10PM (#24602150)
I think you’re correct when you say that most “innovation” grants are going to companies that are anything but, but to say that most startups are nothing but grant chasers is absolutely not true.

I don’t know where you’re located, but at least here in The Netherlands we seem to have a fairly healthy startup ecosystem, where grants seem to be more of an afterthought because there’s a fair amount of VC money or bootstrapped startups.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by auganov on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:32PM (#24602974)
I don't know what the experience is like for people in the Netherlands. But a little bit of googling in English shows quite a bit of stories about Dutch funds getting major govt funding and a bunch of govt programs offering startups money.

So I'd wonder how many funds are truly private. And for those that aren't I'd like to see if any bureaucracy gets pushed onto to the startups they fund.

Say EU-funded VCs, due to the special obligations they're under will often make startups comply with many of the same stuff. So even though a startup might not be a grant recipient themselves they will ultimately have to submit to that regime too.

https://www.4impact.vc/rvo

https://venturebeat.com/2014/02/11/gameon-teams-with-dutch-g...

https://business.gov.nl/financing-your-business/funding-and-....

https://business.gov.nl/starting-your-business/launching-an-...

https://impactcity.nl/startup/financing/seed-funding/

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by stingraycharles on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:29AM (#24604432)
That’s a fair comment, and I had not considered that. I do know a VC, HollandVentures, that’s one of the VCs that works with EU funding, but I also know many other VCs that, as far as I can tell, work solely with private money.

https://nlfunding.co/ provides a list of all VCs active in The Netherlands, and while a few obvious ones are working with EU grants, I have no reason to believe most of them do.

Regardless, my response was mostly to the “EU startups are grant chasers” comment, which I still believe is an unfair depiction.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by lowdose on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:16PM (#24602200)
Which Dutch unicorns came out of that ecosystem you are talking about?
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by stingraycharles on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:28PM (#24602289)
I don’t know whether they’re Unicorns, but at least we have companies like Booking.com, Adyen, you could argue Gitlab has Dutch roots, and smaller ones such as MessageBird, WeTransfer, Usabilla, etc. These are more well known names, but there are plenty and plenty of smaller ones, where “small” can still be around a hundred employees.

Again, I’m not claiming that our startup climate is anything like what your see in SV, but it’s definitely a fairly healthy scene, and it would be an insult to characterize these as grant chasers.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by barry-cotter on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:05AM (#24604823)
Booking is a wholly owned subsidiary of Priceline, a US company and has been for the majority of its existence. It was bought for its considerable IT assets after going bankrupt, IIRC.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by stingraycharles on Sunday September 27, 2020 @08:53AM (#24606266)
Yes, but I was using it as an example of a healthy Dutch startup ecosystem, and I still believe it is a good argument. I wouldn’t consider Booking.com a startup anymore anyway, just like TomTom etc, but that’s missing the point: they had their roots here, and are good examples of a counter argument that they are merely “grant chasers”.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by lowdose on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:41PM (#24602384)
Gitlab is a remote company because of the poor health of the ecosystem.

Mollie & Adyen have had success because of the walled garden iDeal payment system of the Dutch banks. Eindhoven was a very innovative region until Philips decided to move HQ.

Even Sweden produced more unicorns with a population size a 1/3 of the Netherlands.

Maybe you have had more luck with raising money but I experienced a lot of stupidity from private investors.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by dmitriid on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:23PM (#24602250)
> Most "startups" in the EU are nothing more than grant chasers. There's very little private VC money because of all the grants.

Potato potato. Most "startups" in the US are nothing but VC money chasers and often lose billions of infinite investor money (looking at you, Uber) for indefinite periods of time. How is this different from grants other than it's "free" government money in one case and "free" VC money in the other?

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by auganov on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:44PM (#24602408)
Very different. In that sense the VC money is actually "free" money.

When you get a grant you're subject to many rules. You usually have to submit a budget and money will only get disbursed in accordance with that plan. And there may be many limitations as to what the budget can contain in the first place. Say only X percent can go towards Y class of spending.

Your startup is doing poorly and you want to downsize? Well you can't because you budgeted for X people. Want to cut or increase salaries? You can't. I mean you could fire these people but you'd be forfeiting the funds. So people don't.

Then there's pressure. [Private] VC is an honor system. There are very few legal obligations but you're expected to perform. Your continued access to funds will mostly depend on how you're perceived by the VCs.

With grants you only need to follow legal requirements. No pressure to perform. The agencies only care about you following the rules. When applying for more money, again, you need to fulfill a bunch of requirements. There's not much of a reputation system. If you get denied but meet all the formal requirements you can often sue and win.

And since there's no dilution there's no limit to how many different grants you can take.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by yholio on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:07PM (#24602552)
I think both of you make interesting points. Clearly, the US market-driven model is more successful at producing companies that can internationalize. But there is little doubt the explosion in venture funds is tied to the financial climate pursued by the US government.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by Ericson2314 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:01PM (#24602520)
And if that VC money comes from QE....wait...
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by odiroot on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:08PM (#24602135)
This is sort of already happening. As fa as I remember, all the startups I've ever worked for received grants from EU.

It's really a common thing.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jacquesm on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:25PM (#24602661)
Lack of money is not the problem. The problem is that anything remotely successful gets acquired by a US entity or that people don't even bother to try to get off the ground in the EU but that they start in SV through YC or some other US based accelerator.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by 0xfaded on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:56AM (#24604528)
As another poster pointed out, there are plenty of billions being sloshed about. But in my experience all this does is subsidize private investment. If an investor knows that the money they are putting in will unlock 3:1 in public money, then there's a pretty good argument for the investor to only give you a quarter of what you actually need. What's less thought about is how much time is wasted chasing tiny check sizes from these government programs. And then the reporting requirements are insane, hour by hour break downs of work plus reports and presentations at the end. They also don't like to give out large amounts and would rather fund lots of small partial projects, wasting even more time.

As far as innovation in the EU goes, the governments (yes, plural, another problem) need to get out of the way. I'm usually positive when it comes to the functioning of European governments, but this is one of the major exceptions.

I argue for European federalism, but also realize that's unrealistic. One possible step in the right direction would be to have an EU wide company structure with a single set of rules that makes investment between different European countries less complicated for companies and investors. I've also thought that a high profile EU investor could force some change by making it a requrement for their portfolio companies to immediately invert ownership to a Delaware Corp. That would open them up to US capital while simultaneously pissing of a lot of the innovation people in the government.

Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by CerealFounder on Saturday September 26, 2020 @08:43PM (#24603314)
Its just doesn't seem like the culture.
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by georgeburdell on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:08PM (#24602129)
Money will not solve the EU's pervasive problem with corruption and grift. I'm thinking of huge investments like the 1bn euro flagship fund for graphene that have done nothing except prop up existing institutions of well-connected academics
Re:Daniel Ek commits to investing €1B in European ”moonshots” by jnurmine on Saturday September 26, 2020 @08:03PM (#24603138)
Except there are already products on the market as a result of the Graphene Flagship... https://graphene-flagship.eu/products

Also many new innovations on the way. Like "green graphene" composite, made from biomass, by Brightday Graphene in Sweden.