We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24458716 and marked it off topic.

I see you don't have kids. Even with one, even when we tried to go as eco-friendly way as possible (including using washable diapers with washable paper inserts), there are limits.

Eco wash liquids are not as effective, so you end up sometimes washing twice (what's eco about that?).

Washable diapers are much less absorbent compared to regular ones, so its not an option for us for night - baby skin would be highly irritated the next morning. Same goes for more liquid poop - it would overflow very easily. And so on.

If you are en eco fanatic, then you can go that way, but in our case it would mean actively hurting our baby.

I don't understand this, we used reusable nappies (diapers) for our children without any problems. The only exceptions were when were travelling.

Go diaper-less, it is easy and clean. I know it is hard to imagine for the western mind. But most human ever lived, have never seen a diaper.

There are lot of wrong with diapers e.g. rash etc.

Google split-pants, elimination communication!

I kind of don't like this arguments. Most human ever lived without public health and health support. Most people lived without democracy. Western mind is ok. Western mind is great. As all other cultures. Again, I wasn't able to send my kid to kindergarten as diaper-less and the reusable diaper wasn't welcome. It's not about having western mind. It's about daily practicality which in some areas are intrinsic in our society. How was the kindergarten of your kids policy regarding being diaper-less?

As a father of 2 small children, we were already brought so close to our limits by the strain of it that we had to take whatever opportunity we had to ease the burden- such as using disposable diapers.

I can tell you that the kindergarten were my kids attended in Germany, they were against reusable diapers, because it generated more job to the the educators which were already overwhelmed.

That doesn’t prevent you from using them at home though.

we did it, even if because of that we increased astronomically our water usage and humidity in our apartment trying to dry them daily. Beside a new laundry machine because the diapers. But it didn't help us when we we were on the way, traveling (train or plains) or in kindergarten. So the solution isn't binary, and people saying "just do it", either didn't though the problem through or never had kids. Fun fact, once to fly for a 30 days trip, we brought a 20 kg luggage just with reusable diapers (2 kids)

Agree. We also only do it at home (but use less energy since we’re drying them on a rack). Here it’s quite dry so the added humidity helps.

the problem was mostly to dry the diapers in the winter, mostly in the night. Heater in the living room, full of diapers.

It's a good question for proving my point.

Claiming the moral high ground should presume posession of moral basics like decency (cutting people some slack, benefit of the doubt). Even more so if the moral high ground is used to shame others pulicly or subjugate to dishonorable treatment.

If not, all the moral grandstanding is just an excuse to behave like a douche.

Thus: people who are annoyed by this leave, with the share of those who think such behavior is ok ever increases

About reusable diapers: To satisfy ethical demands in an environment without decency is never achievable. Reusable diapers? Out of what material are they made? I hope it's environmentally substainable? Were they socially responsibly sourced? Done by a company or coop? Imported from a far away overseas country or produced by your local commune? It. Never. Stops.

If you knit them yourself from cotton grew in your background, you should be safe.

Hehe, well you forgot: why diapers at all?

1) No diapers, no resources used.

2) There are cultures who just don’t use them, why so imperialistic?

3) Isn’t your disgust of the smell of old diapers just a social construct?

> The plant is a shrub native to tropical and subtropical regions around the world, including the Americas, Africa, Egypt and India.

How dare you grow non-native plants in your german backyard ! This is both a remnant of colonialism AND a danger to local biodiversity.

you need to build an underground greenhouse deep enough to be under aquifers and to be geothermically heated in winter powered by an all zero emission electrical grid

But then your agricultural run off could end up in the ocean. You don't want to kill the whales, do you?

The main threat to the planet is CO2 and human generated climate change.

How many people can find, and understand, the information about CO2 use across the total life of disposable nappies Vs cotton nappies?

EDIT: here's an example analysis. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

It's 37 pages of detailed information that looks at the total life-cycle.

> The average 2006 disposable nappy would result in a global warming impact of approximately 550kg of carbon dioxide equivalents used over the two and a half years a child is typically in nappies. The global warming impact from disposable nappies use has decreased since the previous study due to manufacturing changes and a 13.5 per cent reduction in the weight of nappies.

> The report highlights that the manufacture of disposable nappies has greater environmental impact in the UK than their waste management by landfill.

> For reusable nappies, the baseline scenario based on average washer and drier use produced a global warming impact of approximately 570kg of carbon dioxide equivalents. However, the study showed that the impacts for reusable nappies are highly dependent on the way they are laundered.

> Washing the nappies in fuller loads or line-drying them outdoors all the time (ignoring UK climatic conditions for the purposes of illustration) was found to reduce this figure by 16 per cent. Combining three of the beneficial scenarios (washing nappies in a fuller load, outdoor line drying all of the time, and reusing nappies on a second child) would lower the global warming impact by 40 per cent from the baseline scenario, or some 200kg of carbon dioxide equivalents over the two and a half years, equal to driving a car approximately 1,000 km.

> In contrast, the study indicated that if a consumer tumble-dried all their reusable nappies, it would produce a global warming impact 43 per cent higher than the baseline scenario. Similarly, washing nappies at 90°C instead of at 60°C would increase global warming impact by 31 per cent over the baseline. Combining these two energy intensive scenarios would increase the global warming impact by 75 per cent over the baseline scenario, or some 420kg of carbon dioxide equivalent over the two and a half years.

> The environmental impacts of using shaped reusable nappies can be higher or lower than using disposables, depending on how they are laundered. The report shows that, in contrast to the use of disposable nappies, it is consumers’ behaviour after purchase that determines most of the impacts from reusable nappies.

> Cloth nappy users can reduce their environmental impacts by:

  •    Line drying outside whenever possible. 
  •    Tumble drying as little as possible. 
  •    When replacing appliances, choosing more energy efficient appliances (A+ rated machines are preferred).
  •    Not washing above 60°C. 
  •    Washing fuller loads. 
  •    Reusing nappies on other children.  

It's not a simple calculation.

That last suggestion would be a nightmare to parents imo.

Very simple answer: reusable diapers that I have access to do not provide the user experience I would expect for such a purpose.

Even the Amish use real nappies rather than messing around with reusables.

Real nappies are better for baby and toddler bums, easier for already stressed parents and more hygienic.

Reusables result in massive energy and water waste, they are a health hazard if not washed properly (many manufacturers washing instructions are very inadequate. They must be washed at a minimum of 60°C whatever your manufacturer said), release loads of microplastics and are a lot more work.

> Reusables [...] release loads of microplastics

Do people use synthetic reusable diapers? Why would you do that?

Absorption. Even with the fanciest microfiber reusable your babies bum is red raw after a few nights. Cotton would be appalling.

I'm not speaking in the abstract. We tried reusables.

Are you Procter and Gamble??

The argument for and against reusable is pretty much undecided. There also services which do the washing for you. And they are probably way more efficient than people washing at home in terms of energy used.

Anyhow, real eco-parents go diaper-less as most parents in the world. Google split-pants, elimination communication! Compared to this letting children sitting in their own feces in reusable or not-reusable nappies is pretty unhygienic.

Downvotes? I know it is a big leap for the western mind, that most human ever lived have never seen a nappy. There is a lot of problems with diapers e.g. rash etc.

Have you actually tried that, while living in a urban environment and not in the bush?

Because shit on the floor is also not really hygienic.

Lol, your baby tells you that it must go and you hold it over toilet. And yes I raised two child like that.

And pee?

... and I know the technic and I know it requires more time. And the people I know applying it .. were only partly succesfull. With the result of shit around. And pee.

Obviously for pee it is the same. Does not mean you have to do it everywhere. I would not get in an airplane without a diaper. And obviously western nursery does not work without it either.

About accidents: And then what is more unhygienic?

Feces, urine on the floor or feces, urine all around your bottom? For the first you can use almost any cleaning liquid you want, for the second even to much soap is not good.

Well, with poo it is quite easy. If you pay attention to your baby, you know, when he wants to, I can imagine it, doing without (we simply lacked the time).

But peeing he just do without warning. I would have to pay attention to him 100% the whole time - and this is not what I want or can afford.

What the fuck

There is a lot of problems with split-pants e.g. children now dribble.

It’s not all that big a leap either, there are plenty of gifs of Chinese parents utilizing split-pants to great effect.

Yes children dribble. Elimination communication helps you to not let that happen inside.

So why is this not a problem to the Chinese but you make sound like one?

And what happens outside in the urban areas other people also happen to live in?

It evidently is a problem though considering the entire Chinese middle class seem to have switched en masse to disposables, turning China into the largest diaper market in the world over the past decade or so.

Hang on are you actually accusing me of astroturfing????

How is this post allowed to stand? How do I flag it?

What do the Amish have to do with diapers?

They do a serious assessment of every new technology to decide if it adds value to their society. Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use.

> Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use.

As they don't huddle in caves without tools, the Amish use lots of technology.

They actually use fair amounts of modern technology, it's just that the things they reject are pretty central to modern mainstream lifestyle.

The Amish didn't start evaluating new technologies in the stone age. If you look at technologies invented after the hammer, of course you'll have a hammer. But you won't necessarily have a smart phone or an Echo.