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Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by thesausageking on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:38AM (#24199971)
Filecoin is a great example of raising a lot of money slowing a project down. They did a $200m ICO in 2017 and they still haven't shipped a 1.0, while smaller, much less well funded projects (Sia, Arweave, ...) have made a lot more progress.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by john_moscow on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:01PM (#24200304)
It is unsurprising given that the raison d'etre for Filecoin was never the demand for decentralized storage, or backup, or anything else. It was started with the sole purpose of raising money, because of the overwhelming demand for hype-driven investment opportunities that tick the typical checkboxes. And that was delivered perfectly.

Releasing an actual product is more of a side product. If you don't develop or release anything, and just buy yourself Porsches, it's textbook embezzlement. But if you spend the money in a plausible way, you're mostly safe, even if the product turns out a major flop.

Unless you get greedy and start doing too shady stuff, like issuing yourself tokens under the table, that the founders apparently did.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by chrisco255 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:21PM (#24201428)
This isn't true of Protocol Labs. They have already shipped IPFS, which is already in substantial use. Filecoin's testnet is live now, they have not shipped mainnet yet, but it's pretty imminent at this point. There are certainly some ICO scams out there, but I do not believe Filecoin was one of them. I still think $200m was too much, too soon. However, they didn't issue the tokens to themselves under the table. They issued a SAFT agreement for tokens to accredited investors in the United States, abiding by SEC regulations. They allocated 10 percent to investors, 15 percent to themselves, 5 percent to the Filecoin foundation, and 70 percent for Filecoin miners. That was all part of the upfront ICO.

It could turn out to be a flop, but the only people that would lose would be accredited investors who, according to regulations, should know better. I would say Filecoin has at least as good of a chance of succeeding as any ordinary VC investment.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by john_moscow on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:46PM (#24202586)
What is the actual IPFS user base besides curiosity traffic and crypto speculators?
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by chrisco255 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:43PM (#24203405)
IPFS is an independent protocol from Filecoin. It is not a cryptocoin in and of itself. It is an alternative addressing system for content on the web. The idea is that files are organized by their contents (using a cryptographic hash of those contents) rather than by IP address. You can pin content with your own independently run IPFS node using any tech stack of your choosing. You can spin up a website powered by IPFS today and many people are already doing that.

https://ipfs.io/images/ipfs-applications-diagram.png for some examples of applications using IPFS. Visit https://ipfs.io/ for more info.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by toomuchtodo on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:23PM (#24205897)
Cloudflare also provides a gateway to IPFS [1].

[1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/distributed-web-gateway/

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by john_moscow on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @11:43AM (#24211602)
Yeah, they probably did a partnership for extra visibility (Protocol labs could even have paid them to build it, as it increases the perceived value of IPFS and hence Filecoin). It still doesn't tell anything about demand.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by bonedaddy on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:02PM (#24206450)
Cloudflare's gateway also does down like 50% of the time. It is hardly reliable. But this isn't so much indicative as a problem with Cloudflare, more than IPFS is completely unreliable
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by brian_cloutier on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @09:21PM (#24206233)
Given IPFS is a protocol (think BitTorrent) and doesn't have any kind of token, your accusation that only "crypto speculators" use it outs you as not being particularly charitable here. I think if you look into it you'll find it's pretty useful.

I've personally used it for storing large binaries outside of git. My build process requires using some binaries and fetching them by hash is much better than fetching them from some url.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by solarkraft on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @06:56PM (#24205323)
File sharing/distributed hosting enthusiasts. You can spend plenty of time with IPFS without ever hearing of Filecoin.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by john_moscow on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:40PM (#24205994)
That's curiosity traffic. People who experiment with new exciting tech as it comes out. When new tech is announced, they move on.

This is a good indicator of a technology's novelty, but it has zero correlation with the product/market fit.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by chrisco255 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:39PM (#24206915)
I don't know if you knew this or not, but at one time in the not too distant past, the internet as a whole was a curiosity only used by geeks. And before that, only total nerds in their mom's basement used personal computers.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by zaarn on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @11:03AM (#24211076)
Yes but from that it does not follow that filecoin will experience the same kind of growth.

  Internet = Once curiosity, small, for geeks

  Internet = Success

  Filecoin = Is curiosity, small, for geeks
It is untrue that automatically follows

  Filecoin = Success
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by solarkraft on Thursday August 20, 2020 @04:33AM (#24221173)
This shouldn't be down voted, it's an important thing to point out.

IPFS doesn't really have a killer app people actually care about as long as we're not actually interplanetary - the internet connection from any point to another on the planet is generally good enough.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by thatcat on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:34PM (#24206602)
It’s been used to prevent denial of service, such as in the Catalina succession vote.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by Nuzzerino on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:25PM (#24206852)
This Peer to Peer database is one example https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db

Here is a subforum dedicated to discussing use cases of IPFS. https://discuss.ipfs.io/c/ecosystem/applications-of-ipfs/16

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by ajhurliman on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @06:42PM (#24205204)
I host my blog using IPFS.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by TimJRobinson on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @08:46PM (#24206032)
How do you do this? I'm interested in mirroring my own sites to IPFS.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by ajhurliman on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @01:15PM (#24212923)
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by ahnick on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:23PM (#24201444)
It is unsurprising given that the raison d'etre for Filecoin was never the demand for decentralized storage, or backup, or anything else. It was started with the sole purpose of raising money, because of the overwhelming demand for hype-driven investment opportunities that tick the typical checkboxes. And that was delivered perfectly.

I don't understand the basis for this accusation. I thought the reason for Filecoin was essentially to provide an incentive layer to run IPFS nodes. The problem with IPFS was that it largely drew from volunteer efforts and therefore if you want to actually want IPFS to be a high-performing and low cost service you need to provide a market incentive structure to run a node.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by solarkraft on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @06:59PM (#24205347)
But there are already pinning services, conventionally paid by the person wanting to have something pinned.

Of course you can build something super distributed and fractional on top of that. Maybe d.tube and lbry are such things, but the more venture capital is involved the less I tend to trust such efforts.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by brian_cloutier on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @09:29PM (#24206276)
Paying some pinning service is, architecturally, not much different than paying S3 to store your files.

Filecoin turns file storage into a marketplace, which is a significant improvement. Currently S3 charges a large premium because you wouldn't trust many other people to reliably hold on to your data. I expect this will cause the cost of file storage to plummet.

Your venture capital heuristic is a good one, but I think the rest of what we know about Filecoin overwhelms it.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by wmf on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:17PM (#24202172)
Historically, blockchain services have suffered from the situation that their price is pumped up to levels that cannot be justified by any level of adoption. So the resulting incentives are just for speculation and further pump-and-dump cycles instead of actual usage.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by PragmaticPulp on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:58AM (#24200267)
> Filecoin is a great example of raising a lot of money slowing a project down.

I wouldn't assume the money was the cause of the slowdown.

More likely, raising huge amounts of money was the goal in the first place.

From the article:

> But multiple sources say that a large percentage of those tokens had been unilaterally distributed by CEO Juan Batiz-Benet to himself and early employees for less than a penny each, and that he has continued to make such distributions in the years since.

> Sources also say that no tokens were distributed to shareholders and that it often was difficult to get questions answered.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by shakezula on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:22PM (#24201435)
There's a good argument to be made that the money made it slower. They hired a TON of engineers at once and after looking at their code, you can tell it's a too-many-cooks situation.

Raising huge amounts of money certainly was the goal but that doesn't mean it couldn't have detrimental effects past their bank accounts.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by neckardt on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:46AM (#24200084)
Are any of these projects ready for personal backup use, or still experimental?
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by koeng on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:04PM (#24200346)
I’ve found Sia to be quite good. Their “skynet” system is really cool.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by really3452 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:15PM (#24200524)
ScPrime has been looking really good too!
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by koeng on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @07:15PM (#24205457)
Any reason the fork is better than the main project?
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by fishbed4 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:44PM (#24200921)
i'll look into SCP. thanks. love all the storage coins. always looking for another to add to the portfolio.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by shakezula on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:24PM (#24201457)
Storj, Sia, and a few others minor players are in production. Each have their tradeoffs.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by RL_Quine on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:48AM (#24200104)
The chance of "filecoin" or whatever else existing 12 months into the future is astonishingly low. The "completion" rate on ICOs is close to zero.

> "Obviously it could fail and become worthless. But if it works it could be huge, like Google-scale huge, which is why this became so contentious," a different investor explains.

That anybody put money into such a bleak concept is still beyond me.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by cjbprime on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:56AM (#24200227)
I can generally agree about random ICOs, but for what it's worth the Filecoin team is world-class distributed systems talent. I wouldn't say this about any other ICO.

(I don't own Filecoin tokens and have nothing to gain by the project being successful, I'm just a fan of that team.)

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by kevingadd on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:46PM (#24200947)
If you're investing in a business venture, the distributed systems talent doesn't matter nearly as much as their ability to build and maintain a successful business without it falling over. If they've got millions USD worth of cash in the bank, they can hire talented engineers, but if they don't have any idea how to run a business no algorithm is going to fix that.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by cjbprime on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:21PM (#24201431)
I'm responding to:

> The chance of "filecoin" or whatever else existing 12 months into the future is astonishingly low.

I actually think the chance of Filecoin existing in a year is close to 1. It's not due to a prediction of a wildly successful corporate structure. It's mainly about the tech.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @12:22AM (#24207120)
Seems roughly in like with most startups
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by companyhen on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @07:21PM (#24205492)
Arweave has a pay once, store forever model where after the initial payment to upload (~$0.005/MB) the file is stored forever on the permaweb. You can get started with some free tokens to play with arweave here:

http://tokens.arweave.org/

I also suggest you check out the latest Arweave x Gitcoin Open Web Incubator Demo Day from last week to see the latest stuff being built. Looking forward to ArDrive, Verto, WeaveID and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slzyw1w5Ric&feature=youtu.be

One further advantage of decentralized UI hosting on Arweave is simply resilience to website outages: https://twitter.com/rleshner/status/1278444807011139585

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by wmf on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @09:55PM (#24206422)
Interesting that this is 1,000 times the price of B2 per month, so if you're willing to pre-pay for 1,000 months (83 years) of service you get the "rest" for free.
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by lazzlazzlazz on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @10:08PM (#24206477)
You're not paying for storage. You're paying for permanent, guaranteed immutable, community-programmable storage immune to seizures, platform changes, manipulation, and censorship.

For the right use cases, that's a bargain.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by theamk on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @01:33AM (#24207447)
It is only immutable and immune to manipulation while there are enough miners, and there are no hard forks.

While it may look good now, there is a non-zero chance it will disappear within 5 years for some reason or other.

So if your data is really important, better make a backup copy of it somewhere safe, like in B2.

Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by yupyup54133 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:08PM (#24200423)
Sia (and its Skynet product) have been working great for me for the last 6 months!
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by vagab0nd on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:48PM (#24202608)
It would be interesting to know what life is like for a developer on such a team. Is it like a full time job? A demanding one? Less?
Re:Investor revolt and legal dispute delay Filecoin plans by rasz on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @12:09AM (#24207067)
? raising a lot of money WAS the project