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Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by JSavageOne on Saturday August 08, 2020 @10:25PM (#24096800)
> Our lawyer let us know that they had no strong grounds against us, but would drain us in a legal battle we could never afford.

This is a clear failure of our justice system.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ntauthority on Sunday August 09, 2020 @05:40AM (#24098427)
In Germany, unusually even for Europe, this is solved for civil cases by assigning a fixed fee per case that lawyers and the court itself must adhere to - they can't go below, they can't go above - depending on the claim value, usually around 5-10% of the claim itself in total for all three parties.

This is still nasty for the less advantaged individuals when faced with a claim that could lead to, say, a $10k maximum fee, but for smaller businesses any reasonable claim amount is still affordable and the "drain the other party's legal funds" tactic is practically outlawed.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by sascha_sl on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:06AM (#24099349)
Except it's not really solved. I've seen the "Streitwert" be inflated to half a million by a well known litigious video game publisher, using moon logic math. No details because the case has been settled.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by xmprt on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:41AM (#24098668)
What about cases that require much more work than $10k could buy? If a case goes on for many months/years then it would be reasonable to expect it to cost more than a quicker case.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by tpetry on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:01AM (#24098752)
The limit would be set higher for a complex case. But for a simple branding case nobody will need months/years of work.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by wwwwwwwww on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:32AM (#24099528)
Here in Germany, its only solved in theory. In practice, there are many ways around it.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by eneveu on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:13AM (#24117929)
Interesting. Could you expand on that ?
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by tutfbhuf on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:38AM (#24098662)
So in Germany you actually could have a pear logo for your company.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by esperent on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:03AM (#24099337)
Yes, probably. See, for example, the recent battle between McDonald's and a small (relatively) Irish fast food chain called Supermacs, which McDonald's lost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49254551

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ghastmaster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:04AM (#24097171)
It is definitely not a perfect system. The problem is society in general accepts this behavior. It is an absurd claim on its face. They should face social pressure for this behavior. The only thing that I think could make our various systems better is to change what we accept; outside of those systems. The media we are sold and consume should reflect what is important to us. If cases like this were blasted across the twitter verse and people actually cared, it would stop once the spending decreases following the exposure. We are seeing that in other arenas.

I remember reading about a culture in east asia or the pacific where farmers did not have written contracts and usually had very little problems. Everyone knew what was expected and fell in line. If a farmer were to break with the norm, I am sure it would have resulted in them being ostracized.

I hope one day we expect more from each other, and expect more from ourselves.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by felipelemos on Sunday August 09, 2020 @04:17AM (#24098175)
> It is definitely not a perfect system. The problem is society in general accepts this behavior.

The problem is the justice system accept this behaviour. We can not and should not depends on the public opinion in general to determine injustices to happen. That's why we have a justice system after all.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ghastmaster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:03AM (#24098764)
> The problem is the justice system accept this behaviour.

Judges already have the ability to throw out a case of it has no merit. Why are obvious cases like this possible is a question I'd like an answer to.

We already depend on public opinion in general to determine criminal Justice norms. In place of apple put a prosecutor, in place of pear company put suspect. Every single one of us commits infractions every day we exist in the USA. Protectors use prosecutorial discretion. They do not charge us for every single crime that has technically been committed, because the populace would be up in arms and the prosector would lose their job. Each plaintiff is like a prosecutor. They should be beholden to popular opinion, and that opinion should be that behavior like this should be unacceptable.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by felipelemos on Sunday August 09, 2020 @11:38AM (#24100274)
You cannot expect a fair society that relies on selective justice. Specially with so much social stratification and marginalisation.

Justice cannot behold on popular opinion at all. There is a reason for 'her' to be a blindfolded lady.

If 'every single of you are committing infractions everyday as you exist in USA' and black represents 40% of male prison population while are just 12% of the whole population and while black youth comprise 14% of the national youth population, 43% of boys and 34% of girls in juvenile facilities are Black, we could easily conclude that this system is highly unfair.

Note: while writing this comment it got my attention that in my mother language the words for justice and fairness are the same.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by markus_zhang on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @07:58PM (#24127314)
If you know there is a problem in a system and you expect someone inside to make the change, most of time you will be disappointed, TBH.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by kunai on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:41AM (#24097313)
At the core of the problem is that society is not allowed to not accept this behavior. The systems by which Apple et al abuse their positions to harm small businesses and "the little" guy are literally enshrined in our legal and administrative code. Government decisions of the last 30 years, often regardless of party, have resulted in the single largest consolidation of corporate power under six umbrellas (Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Netflix) in Silicon Valley history.

Extraordinarily lax antitrust laws (in both Republican and Democratic administrations, you'd expect the Dems to be tougher on this but follow the money trail and it's simple to see why), a general disdain for shareholder activism, and corporate culture in all of the aforementioned companies prioritizing the needs of advertisers over the needs of the end user.

> The media we are sold and consume should reflect what is important to us. If cases like this were blasted across the twitter verse and people actually cared, it would stop

I would have agreed with you fifteen, maybe ten years ago. The point of no return has been passed. Apple and Amazon alone are worth enough combined for public opinion to matter nil in terms of their actual business practices. They could suffer millions of dollars in bad press and shareholders would continue to invest and consumers would continue to buy product. Look at TSLA as a fantastic example -- Elon consistently sticks his foot in his mouth and makes a mockery of himself but TSLA short sellers continue to lose big time.

The only solution at this point in my view is a fundamental overhaul of antitrust law and safeguards to ensure competition in cutting edge industries, and collectivization of essentials like public internet and public utilities so the profit incentive doesn't get in the way of service. We're already seeing how terrible the outcome is with the Post Office, we don't need any additional privatization in the world of tech.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ghastmaster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:24AM (#24098879)
http://postalnews.com/blog/2015/05/09/postal-myths-2-the-usp...

The postal service is not private in any way shape or form.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by kunai on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:06PM (#24104061)
I am well aware, but the inefficiencies posed by regulatory capture are often used as an excuse to privatize state property, in this case the USPS and the situation with the PMG intentionally hobbling it to make that very case.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by iso947 on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @05:41AM (#24130111)
Netflix, really? Very little content of their own, and facing increasing competition from established firms. I consider them a little fish in their field compared with Disney.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by WalterBright on Sunday August 09, 2020 @03:12AM (#24097939)
One improvement is for the loser to pay the winner's legal bills up to the amount that the loser paid on his legal bills.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by TheOtherHobbes on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:40AM (#24098944)
You make the bills and awards proportional to income. Now large company has very little to gain by suing tiny company, but a lot to lose. And tiny co has a lot to gain, and very little to lose.

This makes big cos more risk averse - not a win, but likely no different in practice to the current US litigation landscape.

But it also makes them consider their relationship with Rest of World more carefully.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by BrandoElFollito on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:31PM (#24101199)
This is what I advocate for a long time.

On top of that the burden should be made equal by having the CEO participate when I am forced to, or to personally discusd with their lawyers.

In other words, a trial should be for the company a similar pain in the ass as it is for me.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ghastmaster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:32PM (#24101208)
What if there is no value per se? Sueing to cause a company like this to cease and desist would not pertain to your suggestion.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by ghastmaster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:10AM (#24098804)
This would stifle small companies even more. Think of the reverse scenario where the large company is infringing on patents/trademark. If you sue, you better win because you risk paying double attorney's fees. With judges and juries making poor decisions a very real possibility that's a scary proposition.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by frobozz on Sunday August 09, 2020 @03:18PM (#24102073)
A solution for that is for judges to award costs based on the merits of the case and ability of each party to to pay.

Tricky case where both sides have a legitimate reason to believe they are in the right - no costs awarded. Borderline barratry - full costs awarded.

One FAANG sues another - full costs awarded to the winner. Owner of a small corner shop wins against a FAANG - full costs. Other way round, no costs.

Also to set appropriate levels on what costs can be awarded (kinda like the German model). You want to spend 10M on suing a street market stallholder? Knock yourself out, costs awarded = 10k.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by cutemonster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:04PM (#24100509)
> If you sue, you better win because ...

I think it'd encourage companies to only sue, if the expected value from winning, was large in comparison to one's litigation costs times two.

Which seems ok to me

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by cutemonster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:00AM (#24098492)
That's the most bright approach to rules about paying the other part's fees that I've heard about
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by efnx on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:43AM (#24097320)
Ain’t nobody got time for that.

So I have to work 9 hour days, come home and cook dinner, do family time, put kids to bed and then go shame random corporations for not following the spirit of the law?

I think that’s unreasonable. Ain’t nobody got time for that, and we have a lot of people who can get paid to do that if we just change the laws.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by dogecoinbase on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:48AM (#24097529)
This is the point though -- society itself is a sick system (in the https://kottke.org/10/06/creating-a-sick-system sense) -- being kept in a perpetual state of crisis makes us unable to fight against the injustices being constantly perpetuated around us. And unlike a job or relationship, even if we fully realize what's happening, we're powerless to leave.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by brokenkebab on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:15AM (#24098829)
It's could be good enough to take your opinion into account while spending your money, or giving an advise on spending simeone else's money. You also highly probably have some time to occasionally express yourself publicly as you just did :)
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by manigandham on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:25AM (#24097462)
How are you going to change the laws? It's the same problem.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by wiz21c on Sunday August 09, 2020 @03:01AM (#24097888)
> They should face social pressure for this behavior.

Dead simple : don't buy Apple at all and every time you can, explain why you don't and don't spend time explaining "how good Apple is a t anything". That single action wipes anything good they could do.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by cutemonster on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:01AM (#24098502)
And don't use Twitter? And ...

And whenever someone sends you a link to a tweet , tell them... ?

Dead simple?

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by brokenkebab on Sunday August 09, 2020 @07:08AM (#24098800)
You don't need to be registered on Twitter to look at a tweet. Not having Twitter account is much easier then most people think. It also saves a lot of time.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by dennis_jeeves on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:31AM (#24099163)
>This is a clear failure of our justice system.

It is also ultimately the profound failure of society.

Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by nikanj on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:13AM (#24099396)
I really encourage everyone to read the Theranos book (Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup). The legal system is de facto used to bully everyone around the startup, and people cower in fear when a white-shoe law firm comes knocking.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by tyxodiwktis on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:06PM (#24100529)
The bigger problem from a societal perspective is that the “people cowering in fear” often includes the Dept of Justice. Prosecutors are assessed based on win rates, and they know how hard it is to go after a large company with the best lawyers. In some cases, the prosecutors personally know the people at those law firms, and remember them as the best students in their law school class. Would you go after a large firm protected by someone you know is smarter (and better at law) than you? Much easier to focus on the obvious scams and easy wins. This was part of how Goldman got away scot free with extremely questionable behavior like betting against their clients during the Great Recession, or UBS got away with just a fine for laundering cartel money (they sized their teller windows to fit the shoeboxes full of cash that the cartels were bringing in!).
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by elliottkember on Sunday August 09, 2020 @12:41AM (#24097312)
Who is “our” in this case?
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by wwwwwwwww on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:29AM (#24099503)
Or it is precisely the way the justice system is designed to work, by those who, de facto, pay the legislative (election campaigns, etc).
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by balladeer on Saturday August 08, 2020 @11:12PM (#24096972)
You mean "legal" system.
Re:Apple takes legal action against small company with pear ... by linuxftw on Saturday August 08, 2020 @11:53PM (#24097125)
Clearly the large corporations disagree.