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Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:49AM (#23998830)
But we're a library so it's okay if we make unlimited copies and destroy a business model in the process.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by thechao on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:54AM (#23998880)
In the US, there's no right to a business model. That's ridiculous. What's happened is certain bad actors have deliberately taken advantage of a weakness in the social contract to enrich themselves & lock down the ownership of our own culture. At best, we're dealing with moral turpitude, at worst with genuine sociopaths.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by slightwinder on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:44AM (#23999488)
> What's happened is certain bad actors have deliberately taken advantage of a weakness in the social contract to enrich themselves & lock down the ownership of our own culture.

That's ridiculous. Copyright exists becauce in the past bad actors misused the liberty of culture to exploit poor creators by selling their work without paying them anything at all. In the grand picture copyright is good, because it enables cretors to live from their work, and let's them invest into bigger pieces of culture of higher quality.

What we need is to ensure a balance between the commercial interessts and societies interesst.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by account42 on Friday July 31, 2020 @03:18AM (#24006456)
If you are saying that copyright is entirely obsolete now that authors can cheaply distribute their own contents via the internat without having to rely on publishers who might not pay them, then I agree.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by slightwinder on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:36AM (#24007093)
No, I do not, and you are wrong. Internet does not solve the problem of Publishers ripping of creators. Instead modern technology intensifys the problem even more. This is happeng already today in the grey areas of copyright. Without copyright world would likely go full back down to the lowest levels of culture.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by mixedCase on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:09PM (#23999796)
Partly playing devil's advocate here, there's no right to a business model but there's a copyright and the IA violated it when they broke their digital lending agreement. Calling other people's work "our own culture" is a misleading appeal to emotion.

Should we have a copyright system as it is today? Now that's a completely different question. And I don't think what they did helps at all in changing it for the better, at best they're just helping in testing and defining the limits of the current system.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:25AM (#23999247)
But a consumer cannot just unilaterally demand that a business should use a different business model more to the liking of the consumer.

Lets say I hire a plumber to fix my sink. Afterwards I refuse to pay because I have decided plumbing work should be free and plumbers should instead make their income by selling branded merchandise. This would just be breach of contract.

The plumber is not a psychopath by insisting on getting paid according the originally agreed contract. Maybe the plumber don't want to make income by selling branded merchandise but just want to get paid for plumbing. That is not for me to decide. I am free to look for a different plumber who will work for free.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by pessimizer on Thursday July 30, 2020 @01:20PM (#24000687)
> But a consumer cannot just unilaterally demand that a business should use a different business model more to the liking of the consumer.

Yes, they can. It's weird that you think that people can't demand that any aspect of any business change (or end) because they don't like it. That's basically an argument against law and democracy.

Your example is about someone entering a contract, accepting the fruits of that contract, then refusing to hold up their end of that contract. Completely unrelated.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @03:34PM (#24002042)
But isn't it exactly what IA did? They refused to hold up their end of the contract.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by scatters on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:36PM (#24003117)
Retroactive copyright extension makes a mockery of any argument based on contract rights.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by 6gvONxR4sf7o on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:18AM (#23999167)
Your rights to a business model are encoded in laws and contracts you sign with others. Unless the law changes, then yeah there are certain rights around business models. It’s not a right to avoid innovation, but it’s a right to avoid lawbreaking and contract breaking.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:25AM (#23999253)
Excellent! I have no contracts with any publishing house, and I doubt that IA does.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by ISL on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:43AM (#23999475)
If IA agreed to a controlled-lending contract, it absolutely does.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by TheCoelacanth on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:23PM (#24003900)
They didn't. They were relying on the first sale doctrine.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by MattGaiser on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:05PM (#23999737)
You are ignoring the laws part of his comment.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:08PM (#23999777)
I don't think that was there when I commented
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday July 30, 2020 @02:46PM (#24001594)
But there are rights to control copying. Something which libraries were never intended to perform.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by paulcole on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:31PM (#24003555)
This is like saying a bank doesn’t have a right to exist if enough people come in and rob it.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by _underfl0w_ on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:37PM (#24003595)
You seem to be inferring a "because" where it isn't intended. In the U.S., you don't have a right to a business model. Also, there were some "bad actors" that exploited a business model. No cause/effect there.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by xhkkffbf on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:17AM (#23999149)
There may not be a right to a business model, but by the same token no one has a right to someone else's work for free. I submit that copyright has served society quite well. The pandemic hasn't been that onerous. Amazon has been shipping books. Powell's has stayed open. No one was denied access to materials.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by inetknght on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:20AM (#23999201)
> There may not be a right to a business model, but by the same token no one has a right to someone else's work for free

For entertainment, I agree. But only insomuch as entertainers need to eat too.

For science, I disagree. Science benefits society most when everyone, even the poor, have access to it.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:27PM (#24000044)
> Science benefits society most when everyone, even the poor, have access to it.

Sure, but should scientists work for free?

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by inetknght on Thursday July 30, 2020 @01:23PM (#24000723)
> Sure, but should scientists work for free?

I think the premise of the question is flawed.

I think science should be free and scientists should be paid a liveable wage as any other person should be.

People can write stories all day long, even stories that will be read by nobody. Scientists can do science all day long even science that benefits nobody.

But writing stories all day long practices the art without worry about a paycheck. Scientists doing science practices the art without worry about a paycheck.

Both can be done with personal computers these days. Personal computers are extremely cheap to have and to maintain. There's nothing stopping it other than politics.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by mcguire on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:20PM (#24002950)
Can you name at least one scientist whose work is supported significantly by publishing royalties, from the publication of that actual work?
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:33PM (#24003090)
As far as I know publishing royalties is not a source of income for most scientist.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by mcguire on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:50PM (#24003235)
I might go so far as to say essentially none. Quite a few have published popular books, like Thinking Fast and Slow, but I seriously doubt the money from that funded further work (and it would be a crappy way to run a scientific career).
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by njharman on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:32AM (#23999320)
In USA the comment you wrote is your work, copyright granted to you.

I just read it for free!!!

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by baneonplane on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:31PM (#24000092)
That's because a license was granted to Hacker News to display their comment, per Hacker News' TOS. If you read a publication that person did not have publicly available or that they charged for, that'd be illegal. You have the ability to view the above comment, as HN permits people to view the comments that they have license to. Still, HN could decide to ban you from viewing their content, they have that right.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:32AM (#24007336)
> no one has a right to someone else's work for free.

Sure they do, that's what libraries are for.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by dageshi on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:13AM (#23999105)
Without some kind of business model, no writer would be insane enough to write or publish a book because their audience would just read it for free.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:28AM (#23999283)
This is mistaken. Writers write. It's their calling. Plenty of writers have been "insane enough" to write and publish without a business model for as long as written language has existed.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by dageshi on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:42AM (#23999453)
No, what's mistaken is not noticing that the world has changed. Websites exist, youtube exists, there are a myriad of ways a writer might "write" or create which does not involve book form. Books remain viable because there's a business model to support them, but take that away and people capable of writing could and would go to modern competing products that didn't exist in the past.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:54AM (#23999610)
> Books remain viable because there's a business model to support them

If you mean "viable" business-wise, that's a tautology. If you mean "viable" as in "writers feel compelled to write books", that's simply false. Writers write. Many writers like writing books, and would do so even if it didn't put a single cent in their pockets.

Writing books can be turned into a business, but it's not inherently a business.

Also, a book is not its physical form. An electronic book is no less of a book than a paper book.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:13PM (#23999855)
> Many writers like writing books, and would do so even if it didn't put a single cent in their pockets.

Unless you are independently rich, you need an income to survive.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:16PM (#23999894)
That's not the only option. Some writers get by without being rich. Others have other jobs, and write because it's their passion.

The falsehood here is "no writer will be insane enough to write without a business model".

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by dageshi on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:36PM (#24000152)
The business model has existed for centuries at this point. People write books, books are sold. Even those who are simply writing for the sake of writing KNOW that there is the potential to have their book picked up by a publisher and sold, take that away, take the hope of actually being able to support yourself by writing and no... even the most obsessive of obsessive writers will likely give up, from starvation if nothing else.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by klibertp on Thursday July 30, 2020 @03:54PM (#24002235)
> take the hope of actually being able to support yourself by writing and no... even the most obsessive of obsessive writers will likely give up, from starvation if nothing else.

Millions of fanfiction writers would like to have a word with you... Not to mention all the authors of comments on this very site, some of which are, at least, good enough to be paid articles somewhere, or in cooperation with other commenters could be turned (as whole threads) into short books in their own right.

Put another way: the music industry could entirely vanish overnight, and people would still sing in the shower and when drinking with their buddies.

Some people tend to express themselves in some way, and they would do it regardless of literally anything. We've achieved high literacy rates, which gave a tool of expression that is writing to a correspondingly high number of people. It's not exactly surprising that we now have a flourishing environment of Web novels and all kinds of written content outside of the "market" and publishing industry as a whole.

But it's not something specific to our times. Plenty of writers in history did starve do death. One of "the three greatest" poets of my country did precisely that: he wasn't published, he wasn't even read much, and when he was, he was ridiculed for it. Yet he had been writing anyway; then, he died in extreme poverty, leaving just a lot of paper behind. It took some 40 years IIRC for someone to "rediscover" the stash of hand-written poems, and now his works are being taught in highschools.

In yet other words: no, not everything has to be related to money. Many things are, yes, but not all. Writing as a profession that published (and paid) authors do is all fine and good, but it's just one side of writing, not its definition.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:59PM (#24003316)
Thanks for writing this! Now I'm really curious about who this poet was.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by klibertp on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:16AM (#24007559)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprian_Norwid

> Norwid led a tragic and often poverty-stricken life (once he had to live in a cemetery crypt). He experienced increasing health problems, unrequited love, harsh critical reviews, and increasing social isolation.

...and yet his works are easily (IMO) the best among the three of them (the two others would be Mickiewicz and Słowacki).

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by Noos on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:07PM (#24003389)
cool, let's stop paying programmers then. You can write and maintain software for free. Because you'd do it without pay right? I mean, why are authors the ones who don't have to get paid?
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:35PM (#24003584)
I think you're arguing against a strawman. Nobody argued that writers (or programmers) shouldn't get paid; just that writing (and programming) also exist outside the realm of monetary compensation. People write (books and code) for many reasons: because they are passionate about it, for the recognition by their peers, because they want to enter a contest, because of vanity, and yes, because of money.

Getting paid is fine and dandy. What's false is that "without a business model", nobody would be "insane enough" to write books (or programs).

The conflation between doing a thing and getting paid for doing a thing -- or even worse, claiming that without monetary compensation said thing wouldn't exist -- is annoying and misleading.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:37AM (#24007357)
Let's! Arguably the software world would be much better. Nobody would write shit to spy on us or push ads everywhere if they weren't paid.

The best software is usually already the one written by volunteers.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:57AM (#24007447)
> The best software is usually already the one written by volunteers.

You mean written by people who are not professional software developers? I highly doubt that. Can you provide some examples?

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:08AM (#24007509)
That's not what I meant. Obviously someone who really likes developing software is likely to make it their job if it's possible, hence the current non-professional developers are not representative of those in a world where there were no software development jobs.

I meant the best software is written without expectation of remuneration.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:39AM (#24007704)
The Mac was developed by salaried employees, so was Unix and C and all the Xerox PARC stuff. The internet and the web was developed by people getting paid for it. Knuth is a professor, he didn't have to do his work after hours for free.

My impression was that most successful open source projects (Linux, Mozilla etc) are driven by paid contributors.

I'm sure you can find some examples, but depending on your opinion on what the "best software" is, I doubt most of it is developed by people working for free.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by account42 on Friday July 31, 2020 @03:33AM (#24006537)
I write and maintain a lot of open source software for free.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by boomlinde on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:39AM (#24007364)
I do, too. I also write software for money, as a way to finance my living expenses. When I write software for free and distribute it freely for others to use, I do it on my own volition. The day someone else decides for me that the development work I do for a living should also be free, I will have a serious problem.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by klibertp on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:57AM (#24007797)
Neither the_af nor I are saying that all the writing should be done without the authors being paid for it. We asserted, twice!, that professional authors and publishing industry are OK. What we say is that the published authors who earn a living by writing are not the only source of writing. If all the publishers, the whole industry, would go bankrupt tomorrow, the Web novels would still get new chapters, new fanfics would still get written, new essays would still be put on blogs, new comment threads would still appear, and so on.

Being paid for writing is great. It's just that the paid writing is not all writing - some people write simply to be read, without needing or wanting to be paid for it.

Writing code is different, because it's a means of self-expression only in small part.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:42PM (#24003630)
> Plenty of writers in history did starve to death.

And you are using this as an argument why authors don't need income? Surely they didn't write anything after they starved, so it seem lack of income did affect the output.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:47PM (#24000293)
I disagree. Plenty of people take up writing because it's in their blood. They write because writing is their passion and because they have something to tell. Maybe it's artistic, maybe it's political, maybe it's religious -- or a combination.

Getting paid by publishers for writing books is a powerful motivator, but not the only one. In a world without a way to sell books, writers would still write.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @03:31PM (#24002016)
> Plenty of people take up writing because it's in their blood. They write because writing is their passion and because they have something to tell.

I can agree with that. We have stuff like fan fiction which people write and share for free. I guess 50 Shades of Grey is the preeminent example of writing as a passion and as a calling rather than a professional skill.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @04:25PM (#24002484)
"Fanfiction" comes with a certain baggage and implications of quality. I don't agree that unless you're getting paid, your literary work is fanfiction or unprofessional.

There are authors whose main body of work was only published after their deaths and who are considered literary masters nonetheless, and not fanfiction writers.

All in all, I agree with a sibling comment: we must divorce the business of writing with the art of writing. They are related, of course, but the latter doesn't require the former. Once one understands this, one is less inclined to claim things such as "if writers don't get paid, books won't get written".

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:46PM (#24003662)
> I don't agree that unless you're getting paid, your literary work is fanfiction or unprofessional.

That is kind of the definition of professional though.

Writing, like any other skill, takes time and practice to master. If you can't dedicate yourself full time you will not reach your highest potential. And it requires some form of income to be able to dedicate yourself full time. Just like a professional pianist will be better than an amateur.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by klibertp on Friday July 31, 2020 @09:55AM (#24008591)
> Writing, like any other skill, takes time and practice to master. If you can't dedicate yourself full time you will not reach your highest potential.

The second sentence here doesn't really follow from the first. I mean, assuming that only time and practice are needed for mastery, then practicing less-than-full-time only makes it correspondingly longer to reach mastery - it doesn't make it impossible, like you claim.

In reality, time and practice are not the only factors, though. You have to account for talent, which not only sets the upper bound on the quality of your writing, but also influences the rate of improvement with practice. It's not exactly unheard of for a debutant's work to be "way better than the latest work of established master X", isn't it? Talent is hard to capture and define, but it's a real thing, especially in the arts, although it also plays a part in trades and crafts (that's where the "10x programmers" and similar concepts come from...)

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Saturday August 01, 2020 @06:18AM (#24019290)
Talent may be a multiplier but it is not a substitute for practice and learning and dedicated time. Mozart had an amazing talent which combined with intensive training from a young age and dedicated work made him create his masterpieces. If he had the same amount to talent but had to work full time as a cobbler to make ends meet, he would never have been able to produce the same oeuvre.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:33PM (#24000113)
Sure some cushy jobs makes it possible to write on the side. It is no accident that historically a lot of authors and scientists were clergymen.

But you need an income to be able to write.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:44PM (#24000259)
"Cushy jobs" is overstating it. People find the means to write with poor jobs too.

Yes, you need to be able to have a means of living in order to write. Selling your books is one such way, but not the only one. Lots of writers would still write without a business model.

That was my only point, really. It's false that one would have to be "insane" in order to write. We can argue about ifs and buts all day long, but that bit which I was replying to was hyperbolic and false.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @04:00PM (#24002274)
Can you mention some examples of novels by working-class authors from before the introduction of copyright and commercial publishing?
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @04:35PM (#24002569)
I can do one better: I can mention a hugely popular and commercially successful writer -- whom you know of, at least by name-- who used to live from paycheck to paycheck, really struggling when he started (before succeeding enormously, of course) and who wrote in the introduction to one of his books:

"Painting. Sculpture. Composing. Singing. Acting. The playing of a musical instrument. Writing. Enough books have been written on these seven subjects alone to sink a fleet of luxury liners. And the only thing we seem to be able to agree upon about them is this: that those who practise these arts honestly would continue to practise them even if they were not paid for their efforts; even if their efforts were criticized or even reviled; even on pain of imprisonment or death."

He struck gold, of course, but note the sentiment he expressed. By his own admission, had he never been paid for it, he would have kept writing anyway, because that's what he does. And when he was starting he had other jobs -- and a family to support -- and really struggled with money, but kept going anyway.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:08PM (#24003803)
All the greatest writers, painters, composers, sculptors etc. dedicated themselves full time to their art. You just can't reach a comparable level of mastery by dabbling in your spare time.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:27PM (#24004378)
First, this is a secondary discussion. Mastery? That wasn't the argument. The argument was about whether writing books can exist separate from monetary compensation.

Second, as has been mentioned to you in another comment, mastery is not directly related to having been paid for your art. There are acknowledged poets whose work was published posthumously. They didn't live off it.

(The quote was by Stephen King, by the way. Regardless of what you think about his literary skill, the man sure can speak about writing).

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:38AM (#24007104)
If you don't care about quality then I guess you are right.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Friday July 31, 2020 @08:54AM (#24008122)
I never said I didn't care about quality, just that the discussion you entered was about whether books would exist without payment and whether only the "insane" would still write. You seem to want to take the argument on a tangent, but please read again the post which sparked this thread. What the original comment asserted was patently false.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:44AM (#24007388)
"'But you're Philip Glass! What are you doing here?' It was obvious that I was installing his dishwasher and I told him I would soon be finished."

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/nov/24/arts.highe...

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:25AM (#24007618)
Whats your point? Are you suggesting society would be better off is Philip Glass never had become a professional composer?
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Friday July 31, 2020 @12:06PM (#24010096)
I mostly wanted to share that fun anecdote.

I don't think anyone suggested that. Society may be better off despite Glass never becoming a professional composer, though.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Monday August 03, 2020 @04:27AM (#24035316)
Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying, but Glass did become a (quite successful) professional composer and performer.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by icebraining on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:35AM (#24036101)
Sorry, occasionally my grasp of English is lacking.

I meant that, while Glass not becoming a professional composer would have been bad by itself, it may be a reasonable loss compared to the advantages.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by goto11 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:03PM (#23999707)
Writers are free to make their work public domain if they want. The question is for all the author who have not decided to do that, but prefer to get paid for their work.

> Plenty of writers have been "insane enough" to write and publish without a business model for as long as written language has existed.

Only in the case of independently wealthy authors, which historically typically means nobility. Most non-wealthy authors have been depending on patronage, which means some other wealthy person decide what you write.

Copyright was revolutionary because it meant an author could exist without catering to rich or powerful patrons.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by pessimizer on Thursday July 30, 2020 @01:31PM (#24000825)
> Only in the case of independently wealthy authors, which historically typically means nobility. Most non-wealthy authors have been depending on patronage, which means some other wealthy person decide what you write.

You're mistaking publishing for writing. You need money to publish, because publishing is selling decorated paper. Or rather, you did need money to publish. Now you don't, but instead we throw up artificial barriers in order to preserve the status quo.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by the_af on Thursday July 30, 2020 @12:13PM (#23999848)
> Only in the case of independently wealthy authors, which historically typically means nobility.

Not only that. Plenty of struggling people write because they like writing. Writing is a calling which some people happen to be able to turn into a business.

But do note the post I was replying to. I wasn't arguing about copyright. I was arguing about the hyperbole of "no writer would be insane enough [...]" which is simply untrue. And it's untrue by a lot, not by a little.

Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by inetknght on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:54AM (#23998885)
Actually, yes. I don't see a problem with this.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by zucker42 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:56AM (#23998915)
Facebook destroyed Myspace's business model overnight.
Re:Internet Archive responds to publishers’ lawsuit by pessimizer on Thursday July 30, 2020 @01:26PM (#24000756)
There's no difference between this argument and an argument against libraries in general. The argument that libraries are a special case and that qualifying as a library should mean that you abide by a limitation that physical libraries have (owning a physical copy of a book and not loaning it to two different people at the same time) is better.