News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by frereubu on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:45AM (#23938323)
Seems an appropriate time to post my favourite piece on news addiction by Charles Simic in the NYRB.

"I’m having trouble deciding whether I understand the world better now that I’m in my seventies than I did when I was younger, or whether I’m becoming more and more clueless every day. The truth is somewhere in between, I suspect, but that doesn’t make me rest any easier at night. Like others growing old, I had expected that after everything I had lived through and learned in my life, I would attain a state of Olympian calm and would regard the news of the day with amusement, like a clip from a bad old movie I had seen far too many times. It hasn’t happened to me yet. My late father, in the final year of his life, claimed that he finally found that long-sought serenity by no longer reading the papers and watching television. Even then, and I was thirty years younger than he, I knew what he meant. What devotees of sadomasochism do to their bodies is nothing compared to the torments that those addicted to the news and political commentary inflict on their minds almost every hour of the day."

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/12/05/goodbye-serenity/

Edit: Charles Simic is a Serbian-American poet who lived through WWII and saw some really grisly things, some described briefly in the article, hence "after everything I had lived through and learned in my life..."

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tossthere on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:43AM (#23940090)
I figured this out a few years ago and completely stopped all news watching/reading entirely. I have nothing but positive things to say about that decision, and surprisingly I seem to be better-informed and feel like I have a worldview that more accurately reflects reality than most of the people who follow news daily.

Daily news watchers now seem like such ineffective people to me, and I’m reminded of the know-nothings from my teenage years rambling about conspiracy theories. The entire time they’re talking about whatever is happening in the news, I’m just thinking: “Who decided that this was important to you, and why did you let them decide that?”

I have family members that can’t pay their rent on time or remember to feed their kids breakfast, but they’ve got the geopolitical dynamics of the US and Russia all figured out. They solved it.

Others talk endlessly about their opinions about all subjects deemed important by the news. They speak with passion as if the opinions and convictions are their own, yet every single stance they take conveniently mirrors whatever was favored in whatever media they consumed.

None of them ever express an original thought. Every single one of them just chooses a selection of things they heard and repeats it.

I’ve been doing this long enough that I think I can see how this is going to turn out for me long-term. Name anything that happened 5 years ago. If it’s significant, I remember it. If it isn’t, I never heard about it at all, and nobody else remembers it either.

I’m by farrrrrrrr the happiest person I know, to the point that I literally feel guilty about it sometimes. I just have so much time for my career that I’ve zipped past everybody, so much time for family.

It might be the single best decision I’ve ever made in my life. I’m really thankful that I figured it out this young.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by dencodev on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:05AM (#23940344)
Does being on HN not count? Feel like I see lots of news on HN. It's in the name after all.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:11AM (#23940421)
Definitely cheating and I’m not the GP, but I would argue HN is curated enough to filter out most guilty pleasure outrage news cycles. Still in the same realm though.

For example, the Twitter hack has made its rounds here but, say, Kanye having a political meltdown hasn’t necessarily (or at least I haven’t seen it) despite it being a prominent trend on Twitter.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by drenvuk on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:26PM (#23942115)
I'm going to be blunt here and say that you're wrong. There is no difference. The news may be curated and may be for a specific audience but the odds that it's just as useless to you as mainstream news is still very high. I don't say this to criticize, mind you. I'm here as well.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:46PM (#23942392)
Perfectly fine — I’m only arguing for the sake of discussion. When I have gone on no-information binges, I included HN in them. Over time, I realized HN upsets (upsets may not be the right word — maybe mentally clouds or distracts?) me a considerable amount less. The links I look at are informative and inspire creativity; the discussions push me towards explaining my thoughts carefully rather than resorting to status games, false sense of superiority, and mob rule. HN is news, and as such, it is addicting and sometimes does upset me depending on the subject matter and how many people take on views that oppose mine, but I still think it’s an order of magnitude less so than things like Twitter.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by sjg007 on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:31PM (#23942954)
HN provides the same dopamine surge.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by chrisrickard on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:08PM (#23945747)
I have read HN every morning for the last ten years, and I think for the first 5 years of my HN life I felt a huge rush when _something_ new came out. That could be a new "groundbreaking" app, JS library, Mac distro etc.

About 5 years ago it just started to fade.. probably as I started to click less on the new JS libraries etc, and more on the obscure interesting learnings (but also could be due to the content that makes the front page.

Every once and a while I jump on, look at a few links, read a few articles, and feel a bit disappointed that I don't have my rush anymore... I think its healthier, less addictive, but what happened to my good ol' junkie-hit days? :)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by sjg007 on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:28PM (#23946144)
I started with slashdot, it was ok until I realized I couldn’t comment and have anyone reply. I went to Reddit when it started but I never found a community. Maybe b/c HN became that community.. kind of. I actually have an earlier account I abandoned because I had been so addicted. But HN has similar slashdot issues and other issues too. I never took to digg.. did anyone? Twitter for me is a new thing but it has similar issues... no engagement. And anywhere I am expert or have a contribution I get downvoted. That’s weird. Kinda like how people feel if they’ve been profiled in the newspaper. Some of it is right but specific details and nuance are wrong. I can see why people feel it’s fake news in some sense. But that’s the nature of the fame.

I’m actually glad the engagement is minimal. It helps me disengage. It feels like a FPS game against all the youngsters.

The moral of the story is to never read the comments. So what does that really mean? It means, be the article, not a comment.

We are just grist in the wind.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Shared404 on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:53PM (#23943738)
Yup. I kinda regret creating my account for this reason.

I've had good discussions, but I can feel the pull of the karma counter ticking up.

I don't know if it was worth the trade.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by agustif on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:47PM (#23943688)
I have found a lot of wortwhile projects on HN.

Also great insights on comments.

90% I go for the comments and skip the link. That's where te pearls are

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:13PM (#23943925)
I find myself doing that as well. To my taste, the discussion is much more valuable than the article. In fact, for most cases, I see the article as simply a prompt for discussion with very little valuable insight found in the article itself.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tlarkworthy on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:22PM (#23942845)
Some of is technical content and useful for staying relevant in a fast paced industry. Some of it is garbage.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tossthere on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:24PM (#23942869)
HN has the word “news” in its name, but I think that’s where most of the similarities end.

Looking at the front page right now, I count maybe 4 items that are attempts at journalism. The rest are interesting subjects resurrected from 6+ years ago, tech guides, user-submitted questions/content, etc. The ones that seem like news items don’t really pertain to today’s hot news, they’re press releases from NASA etc.

HN is a discussion board, and the topics are almost always relevant to my career and interests. I mostly read the comments though. HN informs discussions I have with people at work and tech-related decisions in and out of work. I think it’s worthwhile.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by arendtio on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:09PM (#23943328)
For me, HN counts too. Yes, the quality is different compared to classical news pages, but I think it serves the same desire to find something new.

From my perspective, giving in to this desire is part of the problem. When I start my day consuming content, the whole day becomes a lot less productive (concentrating becomes very hard). But if I start the day engaging my brain in a concentrated mode, the first few hours become very productive.

So my solution for avoiding to constantly visit HN in the search for something new, is that I have a new tab page in my browser, that lists, the top 3 HN news from the best list, if I haven't read them already. That way I fight the fear of missing out.

Maybe I should add that it always shows an empty list for the first 12 hours of the day ;-)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by sabas123 on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:22PM (#23942067)
I would say that an important distinction is that there are enough interesting articles posted in here which are not news related that make it worth while. But obviously I am biased here.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:05PM (#23942633)
Right. Posts like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23917131 keep me coming back. Hard to find such focused discussions elsewhere in my opinion.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by silicon2401 on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:53AM (#23940193)
I feel the exact same way. If there's something really important, it'll make its way to me. If there's something I want to know, I'll make my way to it. Otherwise it probably wasn't worth my time. Like you, I read about and hear acquaintances talk about anxiety, etc from the news so often, and just feel like I'm talking to someone complaining about sunburn and continuing to go out without sun protection
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by SamBam on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:54AM (#23940216)
> I completely stopped all news watching/reading entirely. ... I seem to be better-informed.

How do these square? How is it that you become informed?

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Shoreleave on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:30PM (#23942181)
Better-informed implies useful knowledge. Stop with the news for a month and you'll realize that 98% of it doesn't provide you with any information that stays with you for more than a day or so. It doesn't matter that you read it. It only has negative effects on you.

This opens up a lot more time and effort to explore the 2% that does matter.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:14AM (#23940457)
One way that I could imagine is having long-form discussions about it with friends rather than getting a journalist’s opinion and settling on it as fact.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by SketchySeaBeast on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:24AM (#23940592)
But then you just had a discussion about your friends understanding of the issue, which is going to be another step removed from the journalist. And you're either relying on the friend to have done all the work for you, or you're just two people who haven't taken the time to look at the issue discussing it.

To me, it seems that was lies strong opinions and without context.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pb7 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:32AM (#23940680)
There’s the rub. Your friend is more likely to have a similar point of view as you on a given topic so they can relay the necessary details for you, if the topic is important enough. No matter the topic, there will always be multiple spins on it so getting your friend’s spin is no better or worse than a journalist’s — or worse, the mob’s.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by rickbad68 on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:48PM (#23944835)
I would argue the friends spin is probably more reliable, depending on the friend of course, as at least they would not be motivated by ratings or money and probably are not intentionally trying to cultivate any certain biased viewpoint in you.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by peterkelly on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:09PM (#23941925)
Books
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by SamBam on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:41PM (#23942319)
Well, I'm guessing this whole conversation them hinges on what we mean by "informed."

I'm doubting that a person could be well-informed by what's going on recently with the Trump adminstration, or BLM protests, or recent Covid news, from reading books alone.

I'm guessing that people who don't read the news might respond that the latest scandal from the government isn't important, and why they stopped reading the news.

At which point, "informed" might simply mean "the things I know about, because I think they're important."

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by 13415 on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:47PM (#23941659)
The post reminds me of this: https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d...

I don't agree in your main argument, which seems to be based on the idea that whatever makes you feel better is good. I, for one, prefer to read the news and watch the occasional clip online. It makes you better informed, which is essential for many things, including business and informed voting.

Trying to be happy all the time is overrated.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by bergstromm466 on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:00PM (#23943811)
> Trying to be happy all the time is overrated.

Completely agree.

“[B]y restoring grief to soul work, we are freed from our one-dimensional obsession with emotional progress. This “psychological moralism” places enormous pressure on us to always be improving, feeling good, and rising above our problems.2 Happiness has become the new mecca, and anything short of that often leaves us feeling that we have done something wrong or failed to live up to the acknowledged standard. This forces sorrow, pain, fear, weakness, and vulnerability into the underworld, where they fester and mutate into contorted expressions of themselves, often coated in a mantle of shame. People in my practice routinely apologize for their tears or for feeling sad.

I am an advocate for a soul psychology that senses vitality in every emotion, whatever life offers to us in the moment. We will have times of being happy, which is cause for celebration. We will, however, also have times of sorrow and loneliness. Moods will come upon us and events will occur that evoke anger and outrage in us. In fact, archetypal psychologist James Hillman once noted that being outraged is a sure sign that our soul is awake. Each of these emotions and experiences has vitality in it, and that is our work: to be alive and to be a good host to whoever arrives at the door of our house. Happiness, then, becomes a reflection of our ability to hold complexity and contradiction, to stay fluid and accept whatever arises, even sorrow.”

—Francis Weller, The Wild Edge of Sorrow

I loved that the Onion article, thanks for sharing it!

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by jariel on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:29PM (#23943507)
“Who decided that this was important to you, and why did you let them decide that?”

I love this, thanks.

However, it is possible to have a view contrarian to whatever is being published. For the life of me, I cannot seem to find any news source that I feel comfortable with or even trust.

Also - it's actually important that some people pay attention. The 'real news' is in the details, and it takes attention. Right now, there's a minor scandal in the Canadian government, but really it cuts very deep, to the point where the PM and the Minister of Finance are compromised, the later possibly in point blank illegal graft. These are the kinds of things that rot democratic institutions, and the manner in which they are conceived is usually quite subtle. The government sponsored news in Canada, is somewhat compromised by the fact that their source of funding comes from the source - and very unfortunately, some of the most detailed reporting is coming from the otherwise, low-grade daily tabloids. The only way to parse through the scandal is to read it all - and the only way for the electorate to solve the problem is to put enough political pressure, or, to vote them out. This is an unfortunate paradox, it does take quite a lot of attention on the part of the plebes to make sure things work well.

It's really surprising how vague sometimes corruption can be: if the oversight board doesn't raise a huge fuss, and neither do the mainstream press - then it's simply 'not corruption'. It's weirdly a matter of interpretation and spin, sadly. 'Friends doing business with friends' is normal, the line that gets crossed is sometimes very grey.

That said, it's 95% rubbish.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by alfiedotwtf on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:52PM (#23941721)
> “Who decided that this was important to you, and why did you let them decide that?”

Thank you for that comment... I'm now going to turn on my news blackhole hosts file, which I disabled long ago. I remember being far more content back then so I'm not sure why I reverted back.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by user00012-ab on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:22PM (#23942071)
I use the leechblock plugin and have it redirect any site like twitter/reddit/hn to my todo list instead. I also have it setup so I can only view hackernews on Fridays so I'm not constantly loading it.

I also subscribe to https://hackernewsletter.com/ which is a list of all the interesting articles from hacker news from that week. (it comes out on Friday, thus I unblock on the site on my computer on Fridays)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by alfiedotwtf on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:49PM (#23945976)
> to my todo list instead

Ha! That's awesome. That's an in-your-face "hey you, focus!"

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by treebornfrog on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#23943667)
I wholeheartedly 100% agree with this.

As soon as I entered the workforce @ 21 I cut out 2 things from my diet, sugar and news.

This habit has compounded so much, not saying its been 100% perfect because I still read reddit, twitter (very selective following and blocking all outlets that end up on my TL) and HN (this place is a total bubble of smart, high IQ people, I enjoy the comments here, I don't get to interact with such smart people on a day to day).

Any interesting developments will filter through my social circle, someone will bring it up.

I stopped watching TV altogether, I stream the occasional show though.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by shireboy on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:37PM (#23942260)
Can I ask _how_ you did this? I've done some things like block sites on various devices, etc. But I do find myself still - when I'm waiting for a build to complete or whatever - sliding over to whateveroutragesite.com almost compulsively.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by TheMblabla on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:22PM (#23944017)
Try finding something else interesting to do instead, I found it made breaking the habit much easier
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by _theory_ on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:03PM (#24014745)
This is somehow correlated with the idea of knowing 'about' a thing vs knowing a thing. News, in a large majority of cases, is something that you learn about. Its not something you experience directly. In most cases, the most useful knowledge pertains to those things that you do or likely would soon experience directly, so news is therefore a mostly useless pastime.

And if there's an upcoming election, you can always just read the candidate's stated policies and record of voting.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by mcswell on Saturday July 25, 2020 @09:58PM (#23953825)
Don't worry, we've always been at war with Eurasia, and nothing's changed.

Oh--wait--MiniTruth is saying something about Eastasia...

(All seriousness aside, you do have a point.)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by darkerside on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:25PM (#23942098)
I'm a little confused. I agree with some of your sentiment, but are developments w/r/t COVID not important?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by ericsoderstrom on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:33PM (#23942216)
> Name anything that happened 5 years ago. If it’s significant, I remember it. If it isn’t, I never heard about it at all, and nobody else remembers it either.

OP has heard of COVID. It would be impossible not to. I follow a similar approach (avoiding news as much as possible) and I still am exposed to much more information about COVID than is useful.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by darkerside on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:25PM (#23945858)
So relying on informal networks to pass on the key information? That's actually a really sensible strategy. I retract my argument.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by sjg007 on Saturday July 25, 2020 @02:50PM (#23951501)
You outsource it. Like I’m not on FB but my wife is.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by rootsudo on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:38AM (#23940773)
This is a bit unrelated to HN, but in the terms of "memeculture."

What you've discovered and described is called "NPC" by meme culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPC_(meme)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by RealityVoid on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:45AM (#23940857)
I find meme culture just as, if not worse than news in some ways.

It convinces people that something that has enough truthiness and is funny enough is true.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by war1025 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:57AM (#23941016)
Can you elaborate on this?

I am unsure if you are saying not watching the news makes him an NPC, or if the people who just parrot the news are the NPCs.

I am leaning toward the latter, but based on your wording and the wording of the parent post, that's not what I initially expected.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by rootsudo on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:10PM (#23941169)
The later, the parroting of facts and the inability to go into deep detail besides being told information tidbits and repeating them is what makes the NPC so chilling in todays world. Especially when a few people get that high level of norieity and trust.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by mumbisChungo on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:09PM (#23941161)
It's kind of weird that this is attributed to 'memeculture', given that I can recall people referring to others (in a denigrating fashion) as NPCs back in the 90s, before 'meme' was part of our lexicon.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Kye on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:46PM (#23941640)
The article is Start-Class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Internet...

>> "A very basic description of the topic. Can be well-written, but may also have significant content issues."

That means someone wrote it up on a whim and no one's come to address prior art in a way that suits the standards of Wikipedia.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Dangeranger on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:15AM (#23938549)
I appreciate this. Watching the news cycle feels like being in an abusive relationship. You watch and wait for the next eruption, anticipating if it will be violent or joyful. It leaves you feeling depleted and helpless.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by snarf21 on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:24AM (#23939143)
The problem is that it isn't really the "news". It is infotainment. I'm not talking about the fact that truth is subjective and every story has a lens.

The truth of the matter is that the story (and "updates") are all crafted specifically to be addictive, to be click bait. It isn't about sharing information or exposing the truth. All that matters is ad revenue. I do get it that we need to pay journalists. It has become clear we need a new system. I guess NPR kinda has a solution via patronage. If only we could now get more different viewpoints this way. God knows we have enough multi-billionares to fund it.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by yetanta on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:06AM (#23939646)
News is not news. It is entertainment. Pick your flavor and let them tell you how to feel.

It is designed to be addictive. Either by accident or deliberate is up for debate. I have my opinion on it but it is just that. They use your own feelings to manipulate you into watching/clicking for more. Facts matter little, feelings do in this segment of our world. Mr. Bernays should be proud of the monster he set loose upon us. Even the vaunted NPR does this. I noticed it years ago after a drive across the country and realizing they try to make it look like they were investigating things and not just reading something of one of the 4 or 5 news wires.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by war1025 on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:05PM (#23941118)
> Even the vaunted NPR does this.

I recently upped my monthly donation to my local NPR station, and I feel like if anything it's made me more critical of them. Probably most of it is that I lean politically Right, and they lean Left. But it feels like sometimes they just go out of their way to try to check all the boxes of "woke" culture, whatever the hell that is.

The example that sticks out in my mind is they did a piece on immigration detention centers a few weeks back (no qualms there). The person they chose to interview was a transgender Guatamalen.

It's basically the most on-brand thing the reporter could have done. Talking about immigration? Better throw in some LGBT issues as well.

It's too much I guess to expect a news organization to just report on the news.

When I get feeling really irritated about it, I calm myself down by rationalizing that I like the music they play in the evenings.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by stevenbedrick on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:25PM (#23942100)
Without having listened to that piece, it occurs to me that one reason for specifically including the perspective of a transgender individual in the radio segment may have been that under the current administration there have been _major_ changes to our country's policies around asylum. "Fear of persecution for sexual orientation or transgender status" is one of the one of the more common reasons that people seek asylum in the US, after all. Just a thought...
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by war1025 on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:52PM (#23943194)
I found the article [1]. Looks like they crossed Coronavirus off the bingo card too.

Like I said, it's perfectly on-brand for them.

My wife and I have a running joke (which I think I've seen pop up elsewhere too) about how Terry Gross picks her interview guests based on how many items the guest ticks on the "diversity checklist"

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/871625210/you-can-either-be-a...

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by jand on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:59AM (#23939562)
You are clearly right on the topic of intentionally addictive click bait.

> that long-sought serenity

But i don't think changing your input is related to gaining that long-sought serenity - in a sense of being immune to those inputs if required.

I my opinion it boils down to being human and being to some degree a puppet of your brain chemistry, meaning we can search for said serenity but are propably doomed to never find it.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by GreeniFi on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:38AM (#23938734)
On a non-subjective basis, there are many bad things going on in the world, with implications for both ourselves and our families.

A genuine question: is it access to news or content of the news that messes with our sense of wellbeing? Does “the media” upset me, or knowledge, for example that climate models appear to be more conservative than reality, upset me?

In not reading the news, are we simply happy in the way ostriches are happy when they place their heads in the sand?

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by frereubu on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:22AM (#23939124)
For me personally, it's the volume. If you concentrate on your local area, particularly if you live somewhere smaller than a city, there are crimes and tragedies, but even if some of them are horrible they're relatively few and far between, and can be processed mentally. If you take the entire world of 7+ billion people you could spend your entire waking hours reading about brutality, tragedy and horror from around the world and not run out. Many of us - particuiarly new addicts - have psychologies that are tuned to stories which provoke emotion, so we're drawn to those them. Until relatively recently, you wouldn't be able to get many of those stories outside of occsaional TV programmes and "World's Grisliest Murders" books. But now there's a firehose of horror that you can tap into and it's both fascinating and debilitating. I've found the only way is to do what Charles Simic's dad did, and not read it. I hope that there's some kind of a resurgence in online local journalism that's not driven by advertising, because that feels like the only thing I should read on a day-to-day basis, unless there's something of national importance going on (which, unfortunately, in these days does actually seem to be every day).
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by yetanta on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:09AM (#23939689)
I live thousands of miles away from New York city. A few months ago I was reading about someone getting into an argument in central park. Why am I being show that? It was to provoke an emotional response out of me. They are using our emotions to manipulate us.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by lotsofpulp on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:09AM (#23940396)
Or maybe the advent of easy to use and accessible recording devices is shining a light on the prejudice and abuse that people with certain characteristics have been suffering from for decades.

Those with political power in the US could conveniently turn a blind eye to the problem with plausible deniability with a he said she said excuse, but now they have to face the problem.

I think that’s an important development in the progress of my country.

You should be having an emotional response to the huge undercurrent of racism and classism pervading society.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by yetanta on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:34AM (#23940727)
Why? They were being quite racist towards each other. Should I get involved somehow? Other than 'be angry' what are my choices? I literally can not change what those two do to each other. I sure did not feel sympathy towards either of the two people. I see neither party doing much to help at all. I see one party who has promised to fix that exact issue and made it much worse with poor economic choices and making people think they are getting a good deal. The people of those cities have consistently voted for that. So it is what they wanted. Now they seem shocked that they have made it worse. They literally voted for it.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by bluntfang on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:26PM (#23942125)
are you talking about the time when a white woman tried to weaponize the police on a black man?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by monoideism on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:54AM (#23938846)
> climate models appear to be more conservative than reality

I've read this sentence multiple times and still not sure what it means. Would you please expound?

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by mmierz on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:00AM (#23938894)
“Conservative” here is being used to mean “marked by moderation or caution”, rather than the set of political positions called conservatism.

The poster is saying that global climate change is probably even worse than people think. Often, the reporting around climate change focuses on the best case, the average case, or what could be achieved with an immediate strong response. But the actual paths we are on seems to track some of the worse, more pessimistic cases.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by dencodev on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:16AM (#23940479)
It's not clear to me how anyone can make a judgement about whether models are more conservative than reality. We have no ability to independently measure climate change within our tiny data point of existence. Even a decade of observing it being hotter than it was in your younger years is not any sort of indicator of climate change.

Unless you're reading the entirety of academic research yourself and able to critically judge the validity of that research (by being a climate scientist yourself) it seems like you're always depending on someone else's biased interpretation.

To clarify: not disputing climate change. Only the ability for someone to make judgement calls on whether the reporting is accurate.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by netsharc on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:07AM (#23938966)
I wouldn't blame the reporting... the scientists are also very conservative, because they're afraid of being labeled doom-sayers by deniers.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by abnry on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:12AM (#23939724)
If they are worried about being labeled doom-sayers by deniers then they aren't very good scientists.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by lotsofpulp on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:15AM (#23940470)
Or they’re worried about losing their source of income with which they feed and house themselves and their families. Because the leaders of the US have explicitly threatened them.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by GreeniFi on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:07AM (#23938967)
Of course, and I apologize that it was not more clearly stated. (1) climate models project changes in climate, (2) a body of evidence is emerging that climate volatility is greater in reality than predicted by those models, eg we are on track to hit 1.5 degrees of warming in 5 years time instead of 50, (3) therefore the models were too cautious or conservative in their projection of the rate of change.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by monoideism on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:36PM (#23946184)
Thank you. After reading a few explanations, I think the phrase was fine. I was just parsing it in a political context, as opposed to the original meaning of the word "conservative".

Where can you find up-to-date temperature readings (as up-to-date as possible)? Are there public datasets available?

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by gbrown on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:02AM (#23938916)
There are a range of projections among climate models, and as we learn more it seems that on average the consensus models have been too optimistic.

I.e., things are even worse than we thought.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by joflicu on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:51AM (#23939465)
I agree with your description. The devil on my other shoulder tries to argue with me about being knowledgeable about the world so that I can do something about it. Support my causes by protesting, donating etc Instead I get into snark warfare on twitter :-(
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by kampsduac on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:18AM (#23938575)
> no longer reading the papers and watching television

This is what I do, in addition to no social media except for certain personal alerts.

I ask my partner to relay any significant news/events to me.

I do support my local media group The Colorado Sun with a membership and sometimes read through their articles, which don't have advertisements so they are not incentivised to produce click-bait headlines and sponsored/addictive/entertainment content.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by oarsinsync on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:21AM (#23938602)
> This is what I do, in addition to no social media except for certain personal alerts. I ask my partner to relay any significant news/events to me.

It sounds like you've partly outsourced the problem to your partner then. What does your partner do?

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tgb on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:07AM (#23938979)
You don't consider HN to be social media?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Fiveplus on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:31AM (#23939235)
I consider internet boards like HN a pre-cursor to all dark-pattern-laden "social" "media" today. So yes in a sense, we're all communicating and this is social media. Now, we wait while someone comes to dispute my personal interpretation of the words, but yeah my $0.02 have been deposited.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tgb on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:17AM (#23939791)
Don't you believe it has largely the same negatives as other social media like Twitter or Facebook? (At least in terms of the present topic that "news is addictive".) Why drop one but not the other?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Fiveplus on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:46AM (#23940132)
Fair point, why not drop all and become an internet hermit relying solely on RSS feeds? But then again, aren't these feeds addictive? Don't they leave you asking for more? At what point in the discussion of internet content can we truly(as a userbase) call it non-addictive then? I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the matter so for me, a website that opens once a week at 17:00 EST for a duration of 2 hours might even do the job. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind. This is a very tricky and subjective issue. What do you think?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by tgb on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:25AM (#23940602)
I think HN is awfully addictive, though slightly less so than certain other sites due to a slightly bounded amount of content. Though I think it has helped my life in some ways, it's probably a net negative. My real problem is what should I replace it with? Trying to limit HN (and similar) time tends to make me increase my time on even-less-worthwhile activities like other sites. It's not that HN is good, it's just among the least-bad of the activities that tap this certain urge.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by peruvian on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:33PM (#23942209)
HN may not have teams dedicated to getting you addicted like Twitter or IG does, but it's still addictive.

Many people refresh HN multiple times per day and spend hours arguing about the same things over and over (seriously, I've seen the same arguments for 5+ years). I'm sure all of us have caught ourselves closing HN and then opening it again a few mins later.

This goes for all forums ever, so it's more of a personal change than anything 'wrong' with HN or others.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by pbourke on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:38PM (#23943026)
The big difference I see between HN, Reddit, and traditional message boards on one hand and Facebook/Twitter/Instagram style social media on the other is the relative prominence of personalities vs topics. HN/Reddit/boards are topic focused, whereas the other social media sites are personality focused, with the specific accounts that you follow determining your overall experience of the site and the topics that you are shown. In order to have an experience on those latter sites you must connect yourself into the graph.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by somishere on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:00AM (#23938459)
Thanks, this hits close to the bone. There's definitely a connectedness in the tragedy of it all.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by frereubu on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:12AM (#23938527)
The only thing that works for me is what worked for his dad - don't read it. Make sure you read around at times when it's relevant - before you vote for example - but don't torture yourself with news that (a) isn't actionable and (b) isn't relevant to you. I've steadily weaned myself off social networks, and am now doing the same for news sites. I've started reading more books (I prefer physical books because I find even having an electronic device in my hand like an old Kindle triggers a desire to check email etc.), I'm calmer, and more focused on what's around me like nature and my family. It's not been easy, particularly given that I sit in front of a computer all day for work, but it's worth finding ways to resist the triggers, which can be as simple as taking a deep breath, closing a tab, then repeat until you have no tabs left...
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by jacknews on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:03AM (#23938936)
A problem with factual books is the format. Sometimes a concept only needs 50 pages to explain, support, and explore implications, yet grows to 300 pages to fill the format.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by frereubu on Friday July 24, 2020 @09:23AM (#23939133)
This is true, but I regularly get recommended good non-fiction books by friends which don't suffer from that, so they are out there.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by Balgair on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:00AM (#23939580)
Great quote I feel that way too.

2 ways that I've found some refuge in the chaos that is the hyper-modern world:

1) More news. Flood your brain. Find all the news sources you can in your chosen language. Most big-time newspapers have an English-language resource. Look at those. Once, I put the online English version of the top 100 newspapers in the world (by circulation and if they had an English version) in my morning readings. I'd have to open them all at once and then go through each of the 100 tabs and skim them and close each one. You get really good skimming the world's news that way and really seeing what is important internationally: US politics, cyclones/hurricanes/weather, sports, etc.

2) Read a book. Books tend to draw you in much better than the news. At least the better-ish books. Though it's not as easy as chewing the candy that is Twitter, the 'classics' are a great jumping in point. Struggling to read and grok a few pages of Dante's Inferno does become preferable after a time. Lists of classic literature abound and nearly any of them are top-notch.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by war1025 on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:28AM (#23940628)
> Read a book.

Non-fiction books have driven my world opinions more than any other source (besides I suppose lived experience).

One sad thing about the past few months is I no longer find time to read. My wife does ebooks, but I just can't get into them.

On the plus side, I'm getting a lot of projects done around that house.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by mistersquid on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:23PM (#23941342)
Good as it is, the first paragraph of Simic's short essay which you quote is preliminary.

Later, these two paragraphs capture Simic's mood more completely and that mood cuts into the "bliss" of being unencumbered by news:

> I mustn’t forget, either, that I was surrounded by political exiles in my youth, many of whom, after having lived either under Stalin or Hitler, or in some cases both, never lost their vigilance. Even after twenty or thirty years in the United States, they gave the impression of keeping a suitcase packed under their beds, ready to flee at a moment’s notice should hippies or some variety of American fascists come power.

> Lucky for them, they are all long dead, so they can’t read some opinion piece or hear a congressman or a senator today clamor for the very same police state measures they barely escaped from. Watching the government of the country they grew to love curtailing liberties, spying on its citizens, militarizing its police forces, imprisoning both foreigners and Americans indefinitely without having to prove their guilt, and coming to admire the mindset of authoritarian regimes it used to despise, would have been both terrifying and depressing. They could not help but note that some of their fellow Americans who cheer for the death penalty and for torture, and call the people demonstrating against Wall Street lice-infested misfits and degenerates, are no better than the ones they knew back home and are as eager to persecute, imprison, and even commit murder should they be called upon (I think people who clap for death, love war without end, and adore guns are perfectly capable of it). My mother, who never recalled anything but trouble, and was sure the worst was yet to come, would be saying, I told you so, all day long.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by kkylin on Friday July 24, 2020 @11:44AM (#23940834)
That was beautifully said. Thank you for sharing. Alas, gems like this is also why I'm addicted to HN.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me? why is “news” so addictive? by haecceity on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:01PM (#23943261)
Why allow yourself be tormented by something you have no control over?