News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by blueyes on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:11PM (#23900911)
A lot of people misunderstand the uses of a Bloomberg Terminal. I'm a former terminal user. Bloomberg introduced one of the first, and certainly the longest-lasting, social networks when it debuted in 1981. It is a social network whose average user earns more than $400k per year. There's not as many of those as there are Facebook users, but they have very specific needs, they are likely to know and need to communicate with many of their peers, and they consider having a Bloomberg Terminal a mark of status. Bloomberg benefits from the ultimate network lockin. If you work in a financial firm and you don't merit a Bloomberg Terminal, no matter how high up you are in HR, then you're not that important to the company. All those folks are messaging each other with their Bloomberg IDs, so they know with each message who's in and who's out.

For those who dislike Bloomberg's UI, guess what, many people within Bloomberg do, too. But over the decades, their users have learned how to get to their favorite screens by navigating through a pseudo-CLI, and those users do not want to learn something new. Anyone who has ever tried to build a tooling company of any sort knows how hard it is to ask people to swap out one set of tools for another. Your ideal UI for Bloomberg runs directly counter to the deepest desires of their historical clients. Mastering the useless difficulty of that UI, too, means you are part of the in group.

Finally, Bloomberg has set peoples' expectations across work spaces, and it offers many financial firms a standard tooling. Trader X used a Bloomberg Terminal at Firm Y, well, she'll get up to speed quickly with us because we also use it.

[edited to recognize the author understands the social network side of Bloomberg terminals, in line with comment below.]

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by jedberg on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:16PM (#23900939)
> A lot of people, including the author of this piece, misunderstand the uses of a Bloomberg Terminal.

The author says: "[The terminal] is basically an exclusive club of approximately 325,000 people whose employers think they are worth at least $25,000 per year above their base salary."

So I don't think they missed the point.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by appleiigs on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:27PM (#23903823)
I think the idea that a bloomberg terminal is status symbol is not accurate. All it means is that I can save more than $25K in my trades per year by having it, which is a very small hurdle.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:50AM (#23905085)
I absolutely agree. I had a terminal for most of my career and while it's an amazing piece of software (Reuters offer doesn't come close despite them often having more extensive news and data) and it's super convenient for contacting brokers and banks, I never felt people without it were left out. Especially nowadays, it's not uncommon for brokers to only give traders Bloomberg and Analysts other software to save cost. Doesn't impede their status. Quite the opposite, we always used to say that we'd happily give away terminal access for $25k extra a year. The reason that never happened is because having Bloomberg Access is in the companies' interests, not just the employees' personal interest.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by tpmx on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:57PM (#23902773)
Either way:

All of this makes me think the real value for many of a Bloomberg terminal is level 0 access to the insider trading club.

(Yes, I'm a cynical person. No, I'm not saying everyone who has a Bloomberg terminal is doing insider trading.)

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by chadash on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:56PM (#23903701)
This isn't legal advice, but when you do something illegal, it's best not to do it in a semi-public forum that is tracked by your employer and would be an obvious place for law enforcement to look. Everyone who uses a Bloomberg terminal knows that their employer's legal department can and will look at logs of their conversations. Does insider trading happen there? Probably... people do stupid stuff all the time when it comes to insider trading, such as using their work emails. But it's definitely not the core value of a terminal for anyone.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by paulie_a on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @05:27AM (#23905490)
You never need to preface any comment with a disclaimer about it not being legal advice.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by kovek on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:43PM (#23903043)
Can you explain an example insider trading situation involving Bloomberg terminals?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by blueyes on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:59PM (#23903133)
I do not think that Bloomberg terminals are any more useful for insider trading, in the strict sense, than any other communication device, and probably less so because they are more likely to be monitored by one's employer. However, there is one exception: Bloomberg News publishes a lot of scoops about public companies. That is its raison d'être. To move markets. Those Bloomberg scoops are released to terminal subscribers 15-20 minutes before the news hits the rest of the market. So it's a kind of syndication of inside information, obtained by Bloomberg reporters from anonymous sources somehow apprised of the companies that the journalists cover. But Bloomberg doesn't trade. Its clients do. Bloomberg just reports, and there is nothing illegal about that.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by DaiPlusPlus on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:02PM (#23903453)
Isn’t insider trading is defined as trading based on non-public information not available to other shareholders. (So you don’t have to be an actual insider - you could be trading on information you got by dumpster-diving).

That would make it a grey-area if it’s information that will eventually be made public within an hour. I guess it depends on the type of trades you perform...

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dodobirdlord on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:41AM (#23904795)
No, it's trading with information that you shouldn't have had access to. Think of it as being about misappropriate of information, theft, not fairness. If I have private satellites that I use to photograph cropland, and I use that information to trade agriculture futures, this is not insider trading even if nobody else is privy to the information. Similarly, if I have investigative journalists working for me and I trade based on their unpublished investigations, that's also not insider trading unless the journalists got the information from an insider. It's not about whether the public does have the information, it's about whether the information was gotten from someone who had a legal responsibility to not share it.

The finance writer Matt Levine writes on this topic somewhat frequently, I scrounged up an example.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-13/you-ha...

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by vmception on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:17PM (#23903505)
or 325,000 users counts as broadly disseminated

Insider trading is complicated in the US because it is a creature of the executive branch and the courts. Congress largely quiet on exactly what constitutes it, and the regulator learning to leverage broad fraud statutes and a few wins in the court, alongside many losses.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by kortilla on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @04:38PM (#23910733)
No, insider trading does not mean “non-public information not available to other shareholders”, at least not in the US. It has to be information generated internally that was meant to be kept confidential.

There are many funds that base their entire existence on doing private research about companies and making trading decisions on this non-public research.

Visceral example: you spot a CEO get fatally run over by a car. You can immediately bet against the company via short selling, options, etc. even though the knowledge of his/her death is definitely non-public at that time.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by thoughtstheseus on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:41PM (#23903624)
It also needs to be material information.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Permit on Monday July 20, 2020 @08:18PM (#23903220)
I have only followed the story in passing but I believe LIBOR rates were fixed in a Bloomberg terminal chatroom called "The Cartel":

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/matthewzeitlin/why-bank...

It's hard for me to Google this because Bloomberg.com's own articles leave this out and simply refer to it as "a chatroom" not "a Bloomberg terminal chatroom".

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by brownbat on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:27PM (#23903825)
That's what I thought of.

Some chat snippets here:

https://www.businessinsider.com/read-the-bloomberg-chats-tha...

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by gottareply2020 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @12:33AM (#23904339)
It’s accessing the chat data. If a bad actor could access incoming chats from a major broker’s PT/Swaps desk, a great deal of money could be made.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:53AM (#23905104)
That's for any piece of trading software used at brokers, banks and asset managers. Bloomberg IB is a central piece of trading architecture but not more so than many others.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bitexploder on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:35PM (#23901116)
It probably means they think it is worth 25,000*Factor -- In sales that factor can be quite high, 4, 6 or even 8 as a mark of a good sales person. In other industries it could be lower, but you expect that terminal to produce significantly more than it costs if you are willing to pay for it.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bsdz on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:29PM (#23901058)
I think Bloomberg chat is much less important as a social network these days. It's heavily monitored by compliance departments and any communication that diverges from direct market trading is generally frowned upon.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by DanBC on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:32PM (#23901080)
Did that happen after the LIBOR scandal?

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2012/12/why-was-libor-rate-ri...

> What the complaint makes clear is that it should not have taken five years to bring these charges. The traders effectively handed the Justice Department a slam dunk case by documenting each maneuver to rig the international interest rate benchmark known as Libor via instant messages recorded on a Bloomberg computer terminal.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bsdz on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:41PM (#23901165)
That was one contributing factor. There have been a lot of high profile scandals and this has led regulators to be far stricter. Eg we're not allowed to have personal phones in the office and must go to special areas in the building to use them. Some organisations confiscate phones (and I hear shoes) on entry; although I think this is more a concern about proprietary information.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by disconcision on Monday July 20, 2020 @08:24PM (#23903250)
> I hear shoes

Do people slide around in their socks or is there some kind of bowling shoes esque system?

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by userbinator on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:27PM (#23903566)
Sandals are common.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by andrepd on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:23PM (#23902928)
They can just "establish" the network using Bloomberg and actually discuss illegal things off-channel e.g. Signal.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by refurb on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:28PM (#23904100)
Meh... if you look at SEC cases of insider trading, they usually get wind of it from the trades - out of the money calls purchased a week before earnings release and expire a week later. Then they just start talking to the people involved. Most people fold pretty quickly.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by apaprocki on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @12:00AM (#23904232)
> Did that happen after the LIBOR scandal?

IB has been fully monitored by compliance since its inception, so nothing changed there. Whether or not firms have working compliance departments is probably the question you should be asking :)

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by fargo on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:15PM (#23902433)
I don't think there is any other social network or IM app that allows you to ping CEOs all over the world
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dogfoods on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:34PM (#23902993)
You can @ the President of the United States on Twitter
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by exikyut on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:34PM (#23904130)
And immediately light yourself up for attention from a hivemind and the utterly unpredictable torrent of entropy that may follow.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:55AM (#23905110)
Honestly, writing an email probably also gets you there. If sent from the right domain (big bank, asset manager or even pension fund), you'll get attention quickly. It's not about the channel, it's about signaling who's on the other end of the line.

If you IB a CEO with a Bloomberg account from some university or so, you'll probably have little success getting a reply either.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by manquer on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:03PM (#23901887)
It still helps with discovery of potential contact . the actual transaction/communication of interest to both parties may happen outside using other more private means
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by tpmx on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:07PM (#23902822)
Source?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Uehreka on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:27PM (#23901042)
What if Bloomberg made a "new UI", which you could easily toggle to/from, for the benefit of the people who don't like the current UI? Over time the number of people who use the current UI would become a smaller and smaller share of their customer base, and in like, 30 years, they could turn the old UI off.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by skizm on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:04PM (#23901894)
There was an experiment where they introduced "B2" which was a redesigned terminal and it looked and felt much more like a web browser. People hated it. They moved it to an opt-in feature. No one (except internal BB engineers) used it for years so they eventually stopped adding features. Then after another few years they stopped supporting it. Then semi-recently (within 2 years) they shut it off completely. No one was willing to switch. Now they just rollout small changes incrementally (much better approach anyway).
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by andechs on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:49PM (#23901221)
Why would they though? If their customer retention is already super high, the only reason to make an onboarding curve more shallow would be to acquire new users.

Given there's already a social appeal to getting a Bloomberg Terminal, why would they invest the development time/dollars? What's their ROI?

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by apaprocki on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:38PM (#23904149)
Hi -- just wanted to say that there's a lot of armchair theorizing in this particular thread of discussion. I'm directly involved in building the product and the most succinct way I would personally summarize it is that the service (not product) is a subscription. Customers are not only paying for value derived from the current product but from the near-constant (~24/6) evolution and development of it (thousands of engineers spread across many timezones), and 24/7 monitoring of it. Or another way to think of it... what's Mercedes' ROI for improving their luxury cars? It's already a best-of-breed luxury car -- they could just do nothing, right?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Uehreka on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:11PM (#23901954)
Success hides problems though. If through some unforeseen means a competitor were to arise in 5-10 years who happened to have a better UI that works for a wider range of people, then spending 35 years saying “They can’t choose anyone but us! Let them eat CLI arguments!” is going to look pretty silly.

If it would cost a tiny, tiny fraction of their revenue to shore up their UI to make it harder for a future competitor to disrupt them, that seems like a worthy use of money.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by cbzoiav on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:06PM (#23902381)
They tried it - nobody used it.

One thing people fail to realise is while not initially intuitive once you get used to it the Bloomberg UX becomes muscle memory to instantly load (they force all but the smallest customers onto leased lines) exactly the data you wanted in a dense consistent (UX on any remotely popular function is reviewed and guidelines enforced) easy to read form.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by _alex_ on Monday July 20, 2020 @08:34PM (#23903307)
this. bloomberg terminal is an expert friendly system. it’s not optimized for high conversion rates and casual stickiness, it’s optimized for the productivity of people who are willing to spend the time building the muscle memory.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by smegger001 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @01:14AM (#23904450)
it is the Emacs of finance.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by kmonsen on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:21AM (#23904965)
You mean vi right? (I prefer emacs myself partially because I feel it’s more noob friendly)
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by rovr138 on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:55PM (#23902311)
> a better UI that works for a wider range of people

But also remember how much it costs and what their clients are willing to spend. It's not for the wider internet.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by solidasparagus on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:52PM (#23902291)
While I kind of agree, I think it goes against the culture of exclusivity. Generally speaking, goods that are valued because they are exclusive are not strategically better off by making that product accessible to more users. Burberry is a great example of this and how bad it can be for the company.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by manquer on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:10PM (#23901943)
if you want to hire and retain highly talented folks they would want to work on new tech and product philosophies ?

Doesn’t that benefit the company long term ?

There maybe two distinct markets and Bloomberg can captilize on both perhaps ?

The newer UI could be built as completely new platform “Bloomberg lite“ targeted towards say folks who can only pay 10,000 USD per year or only say currency traders or whatever ?

If interest starts tilting in the favour of newer version you can slowly add features to near parity while moving the older version even more expensive bracket and getting the newer version closer to old pricing ?

If enough people don’t want the new one you try again something different in a couple of years , until you get it right .

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by cbzoiav on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:10PM (#23902404)
The problem with bloomberg lite is many of those users are now paying $10k instead of $25k.

For years their major customers tried to force them into offering an Instant Bloomberg (IM) only license because senior traders insisted their PAs had it. It was only after several senior banks (whenever a single bank had tried the top talent threatened to quit) forced their users to use symphony that Bloomberg relented.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by manquer on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:13PM (#23903767)
Yes to start with, you differentiate the value by giviing limited features at lower price point so people who need everything clearly not going to be interested.

If there is enough interest on the new product you add features to new version and start hiking the price of both so relative price difference remains similar. There will not be a negative impact on revenue in that approach

You could grow the new product in a different direction completely for whole new user who are ready to pay 10,000 but not 25,000. The 25k terminal is still aspirational and exclusive as it is now, if the premise that people are paying for the exclusive network is true both products can work on their own and 10k community can feed into 25k on, if not well there was never a moat to protect in the first place.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by cbzoiav on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @12:17PM (#23908103)
The thing you miss is the ecosystem tie and just how many users could get by with only the base functionality.

i.e. Paying $25k for an IM system for a PA or some basic trade management functionality for a middle office analyst is ludicrous.

But you're also not going to force the trader bringing in millions to run 5 different systems when he knows Bloomberg can do it all and your competitor would give it to him.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:58AM (#23905121)
Bloomberg has a steep learning curve but it's amazing once you've worked for it for a few months. I can access the most exotic functions or sub menus by just typing in a string of numbers. I don't think any other software allows you to already select menus on a page that hasn't even loaded yet. Changing anything is a huge annoyance for users.

There have been a few newer functions that don't allow accessing everything by number shortcut and they're certainly not the most favourite parts of the terminal.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by microcolonel on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:26PM (#23901533)
Seems like making the interface more accessible would defeat a part of the lock-in that makes the product so valuable. People already want to become Bloomberg Terminal users, the UI is "good enough", and once you're good at it, it's a sunk cost.

Despite this, they are sorta doing that.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by MetallicCloud on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:24PM (#23901522)
They are doing that, and have been doing it for years. Adoption is extremely slow.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bduerst on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:44PM (#23901703)
This is the approach Salesforce took, isn't it?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by thrav on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @01:57AM (#23904626)
Yes. It’s taken half a decade and many increasingly forceful nudges to get about half of the customers over to the new UI.

This despite the fact that new features haven’t been released to the classic version for at least 3 years. Not only are they on a dated UI, they’re missing every single new feature that’s been released for several years (and that’s actually a shit load of features).

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bduerst on Thursday July 23, 2020 @04:58PM (#23932180)
Yeah, I didn't want to comment on it but "just changing the UI" did not work well for them. IME it has to be done slowly with gradual improvements.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by pwdisswordfish2 on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:29PM (#23903833)
Instead of trying to "kill" the Bloomberg Terminal, it seems like a more rational choice, assuming success is the model we are trying to follow, would be to replicate it.

I love Bloomberg Terminal's "UI". Really, I think it is the Bloomberg keyboard that enables such hard-to-replace efficiency. Perhaps one can draw analogy to the APL keyboard. The keyboard is still the most efficient input device we have. That is, I think, what is so difficult to "kill". Keyboard-driven computer use still works more efficently than the alternatives.

Anyone who replies to this comment using a keyboard is proving this point.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by apaprocki on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:28PM (#23904099)
I tried to have some fun illustrating this in a tweet reply using the Terminal https://twitter.com/apaprocki/status/1230241842928791552
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by tommymachine on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:19PM (#23904061)
Efficiency is only material in terms of something.

To provide a devils advocate to your last point, people could be most likely to respond on keyboards because a keyboard is an cost - efficient option for the majority of potential responders.

However there could be other tech that is more time - efficient. And for someone with an advanced condition such as ALS, it would be extremely inaccurate & inefficient in terms of either cost or time to use a keyboard for any sort of input where a high level of accuracy is required. Whereas a speech-to-text software connected microphone or some other system would be far more efficient in those categories for them.

All this to say that no, simply because one person replies to your post with a keyboard adds not one shred of validity to the vast over-generalization that "the keyboard is the most efficient input device we have".

I shall also now further assert to, in addition to disproving your central claim by counterexample, to have also disproved your ending statement (also by counterexample), by first, disproving your absurdly general central claim, and second, having done so using a keyboard as the input system for my response.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by tim58 on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:08PM (#23904004)
For a certain kind of user computer UI really peaked during the CLI age. Reading text and typing on a keyboard is the fastest way to get data into and out of computers.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Nextgrid on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:46PM (#23902683)
Are there certain requirements to get an account beyond just having 25k/year to pay for it? Let's say I wanted to get myself this Terminal and money wasn't an issue, would I be able to get one or are there other requirements?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by jshaqaw on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:48PM (#23902701)
Nope. Pay the money and get your terminal.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by chadash on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:59PM (#23903710)
You need:

* money to pay for it

* a physical address to ship it to

* not be in a country sanctioned by the US (i'm just assuming)

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by retube on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:44AM (#23904806)
a bloomberg terminal isn't a physical terminal. it just runs on your PC
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @04:04AM (#23905142)
You need the keyboard and/or B-Unit for second factor authentication. Licenses are for a single person only and not transferable (there are machine-based licenses but those are increasingly rare).

So you need a shipping address.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by closeparen on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @12:38PM (#23908318)
Don’t a lot of places have a communal / semi-public Terminal? Obviously not for trading, but for information, like a library computer.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @06:57AM (#23974390)
Yes, those run on terminal based licenses. Bloomberg still sells those but you need to tell your sells rep exactly why you want one and don't get all features (e.g. IB). They are not very keen on selling those.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by chadash on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @06:50AM (#23905827)
I should have specified that you need a shipping address for the ubiquitous keyboard
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by MagnumOpus on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @08:58AM (#23916412)
For an experienced user the keyboard is superfluous and only useful because it has an integrated fingerprint reader for the 2FA - so you don't have to faff around with their flaky "b-unit" hardware token.

(But yes, you at least need a b-unit to get started.)

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by exikyut on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:38PM (#23904145)
Based on the "no other requirements" of the other comments, I ÷12'd out of curiosity: $2083/month, or (÷365) $68/day.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @04:07AM (#23905152)
Not even are there no further requirements, it's also one of the very few products where you as a single user will pay about the same as a bank licensing several thousand terminals. I don't know of any other product that doesn't come with meaningful volume discounts no matter what volume you order.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by spaetzleesser on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:22PM (#23902497)
Can’t wait for some UI/UX people redesigning the UI with a “modern” look....
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by dx034 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @04:08AM (#23905157)
They tried, it failed. They did a big redesign about 10 years ago to allow accessing functions also by search. So now you don't have to know codes anymore, it's just faster. But other attempts to redesign have been rolled back or never made it past testing stage.

Which doesn't mean it hasn't changed. A lot of elements see minor improvements over the years. Also, a terminal with enough elements open easily takes up 16GB memory, something that wouldn't have been possible 10 years ago. Bloomberg was the reason we had to equip all machines with at least 32GB to run smoothly.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by joering2 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:20AM (#23904728)
That gave me idea for luxury high income people social network, call it “luxuria”.

Only by invitation, no free email provider to signup, $999 monthly fee and credit score check upon registration with minimum 801 score to get accepted. After that enjoy unlimited access to social feed of your fellow high profile millionaires. :)

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Erwin on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @05:40AM (#23905563)
Just a month after the App Store launched, someone sold a $999 "I am Rich" app: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by willstrafach on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @05:04PM (#23910984)
This exists, though not exactly as you describe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASmallWorld
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by divbzero on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:21PM (#23902042)
What happens when a Bloomberg user moves to a different firm? Can they bring their Bloomberg ID with them?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by cbzoiav on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:13PM (#23902418)
I was pretty upset when I went from [initial][surname] to [initial][surname]1 after changing jobs.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by joshcain on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:06PM (#23903734)
Getting [initial][surname] is pretty impressive. My first ID was [initial][surname]7.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by cbzoiav on Thursday July 23, 2020 @04:06AM (#23925210)
My surname is incredibly rare (to the extent i'm probably the only one thats used Bloomberg) and my initial is 1-2% in the regions where the surname is found!
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by appleiigs on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:31PM (#23903844)
No you can't. It's linked to the firm that pays for the subscription. Your bloomberg chat and models can have proprietary info that isn't brought to the new firm and your new ID.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by jentist_retol on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:25PM (#23902082)
That's not really that important. What is important is that they have an ID, at all.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by vostok on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:14PM (#23904039)
> they consider having a Bloomberg Terminal a mark of status

I think this is starting to change. I'm a Bloomberg user and I'm lower status than some of the non-Bloomberg users, such as high level software developers, at my firm.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by coliveira on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:21PM (#23902486)
That is true, but it also misses the point. Even if there is a lot of personal pride in having a Bloomberg terminal, firms would put an end on that in no time if it was not in their best interest. The fact is that Bloomberg has created the perfect legal extortion tool with the terminal. They created a software company that is at the same time a media conglomerate. Every financial company in Wall Street wants to be on the good side of Bloomberg and receive positive or at least non-negative coverage. One way of keeping this going is having a large number of terminals installed.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by drivebycomment on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:54PM (#23902746)
You're claiming Bloomberg provides better, more positive coverage for their customers with more terminals. I'm very skeptical of your claim, as people would start discounting Bloomberg if they did so, but I suppose it's at least technically possible. So, do you have any evidence to back up this claim ? It wouldn't be that difficult to study the correlation, given that the terminals have been used for long enough time.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by kortilla on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @06:02PM (#23911461)
That doesn’t even make sense. Many financial companies give no fucks about press coverage (e.g. hedge funds, wealth funds, etc) and still pay.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by mrtksn on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:50PM (#23901227)
Is this thing extendable? I.E. are there tools built around it helping cool kids do even cooler stuff or game the system?

I got the impression that it should be vulnerable to microsoft’s EEE.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by joshcain on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:04PM (#23903725)
I used to have a terminal and still work with some of Bloomberg's data products. A big part of their value proposition isn't so much the functionality of the terminal (though it's really extensive, and they keep adding stuff over time) but the breadth of data you can get through it. Not all of it is easily available and/or indexed elsewhere – I've heard Bloomberg literally has teams of people that hand-enter some of the more esoteric stuff. They also do things like create/maintain their own synthetic bond indexes fed from proprietary valuation models. Would take a ton of time/money to EEE all that.

And yeah, it's actually pretty extensible. There's a mechanism to create apps for the terminal, though I never really used those. Bloomberg will also sell you a programmatically-accessible data feed of pretty much anything they have, although those can cost well into six figures annually.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by mrtksn on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:01PM (#23903965)
Thanks, very interesting stuff indeed.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by Nextgrid on Monday July 20, 2020 @06:41PM (#23902641)
> it should be vulnerable to microsoft’s EEE

It Microsoft Teams is any indicator, I can tell you right now that Microsoft is absolutely unable to disrupt and takeover any well-built product. Teams is the worst Slack ripoff I've ever used. Whatever advantage I gain from being able to chat in real-time is lost by constantly fighting with the tool, the notification noise and the fear of missing something in all that noise and terrible UI, not to mention the slowness when switching screens.

If their attempt at EEE'ing the Terminal is similar then Bloomberg has absolutely nothing to worry about.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by mrtksn on Monday July 20, 2020 @10:59PM (#23903958)
It doesn't have to be MS who EEE's the Bloomberg terminal, does it?
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by MagnumOpus on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:12AM (#23916572)
It's extendable, and Bloomberg programming APIs and its Excel API are both heavily used.

The reason why it won't be extinguished is that it combines the UI/API (which is not great) with market data feeds that are hard to replicate (because parts of it are scraped from bloomberg messages or only available on bloomberg), the instant messaging and chatrooms that also benefit from the moat of network effects, as well as a news service and macro data/company events/balance sheet data that integrate with each other and the market data feeds.

You could replace the news service and balance sheet data and some of the data feeds with Reuters Eikon, and the instant chat with Symphony - but they are both subpar products with even weaker UI than Bloomberg.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by infinite8s on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @11:45AM (#23907775)
An interesting side-effect of the social network aspect of Bloomberg is that a lot of middle office employees need to have Bloomberg accounts as well (at least on the sell side) in order to communicate with their clients (they are basically paying 25k/person for a glorified chat app). That was a big driver for the Symphony project (a consortium of sell-side banks getting together and building a federated slack clone).
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by walrus01 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @01:00AM (#23904416)
> those folks are messaging each other with their Bloomberg IDs, so they know with each message who's in and who's out.

This kind of reminds me of network engineers repping their ISP's AS numbers on conference badges and jackets and swag. If you're not one of the persons with full admin access on the core routers of your AS, you're not part of the inner circle.

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by snarf21 on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:42PM (#23902219)
Bloomberg terminal is the worst form of financial software except for all those others that have been tried.

Or Word, or Windows, or Salesforce, or Zoom, or....

Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by asdfk-12 on Monday July 20, 2020 @09:58PM (#23903703)
This is true. Abhorrent at first, then becomes second nature.
Re:Why it’s hard to kill the Bloomberg terminal (2019) by bane on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:10AM (#23904685)
>Bloomberg introduced one of the first, and certainly the longest-lasting, social networks when it debuted in 1981.

Email is definitely an older electronic social network, only preceded by the telephone, postal mail, and face to face socialization.