News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by amatecha on Thursday July 16, 2020 @07:38PM (#23865148)
It's almost as if web services that let people post whatever they want at any time, vulnerable to whatever security flaws may be present, shouldn't be used as a reliable source for up-to-the-minute information about literally anything important at all.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by dwd on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:14PM (#23865443)
The same could be said for radio, whether Orson Wells "Alien Invasion" broadcast or the multitude of April 1st jokes that got out of hand.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by mc32 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:37PM (#23865641)
Apparently the "fallout" was an exaggeration that Orson went along with because it gave him more publicity. From the Wikipedia:

>"The supposed panic was so tiny as to be practically immeasurable on the night of the broadcast. ... Radio had siphoned off advertising revenue from print during the Depression, badly damaging the newspaper industry. So the papers seized the opportunity presented by Welles’ program to discredit radio as a source of news. The newspaper industry sensationalized the panic to prove to advertisers, and regulators, that radio management was irresponsible and not to be trusted."

and

"Welles later embraced the story as part of his personal myth. "Houses were emptying, churches were filling up; from Nashville to Minneapolis there was wailing in the streets and the rending of garments," he told Peter Bogdanovich years later."

"CBS, too, found reports ultimately useful in promoting the strength of its influence. radio management was irresponsible and not to be trusted."

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by krenzo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:47PM (#23866458)
I loved to ask my grandmother about this because she recalled listening to the original broadcast. She said the station would take commercial breaks to interrupt the story, and they reminded listeners it was a fictitious broadcast when taking these breaks. She didn't believe that anyone could be fooled by it, at least not to the extent that was reported.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by williamtwild on Friday July 17, 2020 @07:42AM (#23869485)
Oh how times don't really change.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by robaato on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:50AM (#23868915)
According to family folk lore, during WWII when they had double summer time, my grandmother managed to put the clocks 2 hours forwards instead of 2 hours back. So woke up in the small hours and turned on radio to BBC and heard German (they transmitted to Germany as propaganda, and during night used channels normally broadcasting in English). Immediately wakes whole household - "we've been invaded - the Germans have taken over the BBC"!
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by jeromegv on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:59PM (#23866528)
Radio Ambulante (NPR poscast) did an investigation on a similar story in Ecuador and it looks very much real. Not a myth.

https://radioambulante.org/en/translation/the-extraterrestri...

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by sillysaurusx on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:03PM (#23865828)
Thank you for sharing! My father used to tell me about this story. It's good to know it's apocryphal.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by camjohnson26 on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:01AM (#23867551)
“Getting it Wrong” tells about this and other commonly believed media myths

Getting It Wrong: Ten of the Greatest Misreported Stories in American Journalism

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0520262093/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_y5...

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by Zanneth on Saturday July 18, 2020 @07:05PM (#23885584)
This is true about how the events unfolded in the US, but the “War of the Worlds” story was translated and re-broadcast in Latin America where it had a much more devastating effect. In Ecuador, even the army and the police were rushed to the site where the invasion was supposedly taking place, intensifying the panic for average citizens. Never underestimate the potential power of a fictional story that is irresponsibly disclosed.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas...

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by forgingahead on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:51PM (#23866485)
Fascinating - thanks for sharing. Newspapers always play the same dirty tricks - they're doing the same now with the tech reporting because they're losing ad revenue to the tech companies.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by hunter2_ on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:42PM (#23866088)
It's not feasible for every trusted source of knowledge to have their own radio station, so the sources utilize existing stations, and consumers have no choice but to tune into those stations.

It's perfectly feasible for every trusted source of knowledge to run a web server, and they actually do it, so it's sad that consumers don't connect directly to those servers and instead use middlemen.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by Stupulous on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:22AM (#23867322)
I know we're not supposed to discuss downvotes, but there's a sibling comment that makes the point I wanted to make, but it's dead. It seems fine, and the user's history is filled with dead comments that mostly also seem fine.

Regardless, if anyone has a response to a bunch of websites being a worse security model than one giant platform, you can reply to me instead.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by Cogito on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:42AM (#23867445)
if you click into that comment (through the timestamp) you can vouch for it, which if vouched by enough people will show the comment.

The account is likely shadow-banned or similar, so their comments are dead by default.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by mirimir on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:43AM (#23868179)
Also, if you look through their comment history, you can often find the comment(s) that got them shadow-banned. And if their ~recent comment history is good, with many vouched comments, you can ask dang to un-ban them.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by subpixel on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:41PM (#23866426)
People are not looking for trusted sources of knowledge. They are looking for entertainment.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by heresie-dabord on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:58AM (#23870509)
> People are not looking for trusted sources of knowledge. They are looking for entertainment.

Which people? Whose people? This is not a statement of psychological truth. It may however describe a societal truth.

But it is not true that people in all countries want above all to be entertained. People struggle in undemocratic countries. Education makes democracy strong. It also breeds rebels.

Public discourse reflects education. A society conditions its citizens to think a certain way. The typical conditioning involves protecting the society. The flag, the anthem, the history, the current power structure and its wars.

It's sad to see journalism collapse in a democracy. It's sad and perhaps fatal for democracy if people have been conditioned to be infantile and their implanted desire for gratification has overwhelmed their thinking and speech.

Then you elect them.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by dwd on Thursday July 16, 2020 @11:46PM (#23866776)
Trust is a loaded concept.

What people trust is generally what fits their worldview which is increasingly reinforced by the filter bubbles provided by tech companies. The increasing polarisation and tribalism is made worse by the traditional network programming and now algorithms that present what the audience is comfortable to see and hear.

I like using DDG because it doesn't filter, but at the same time I hate wading through utter crap and being the filter.

Twitter for all its flaws is pretty good at giving everyone a voice so you can read something and then the criticisms without having to aggregate that from multiple sites.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by vertak on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:50AM (#23867854)
How often do you need to be the filter? I’m genuinely curious because your experience is very different from my own, where I’ve been using DDG for years and I only notice poor results roughly 1 in 100 of the times, and then I’m just a quick “g! <search term>” away from slightly higher quality results.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by dwd on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:26AM (#23868420)
Political news. G! does a better job of pushing smaller regional papers and more left/right leaning outlets and blogs down the rankings so the mainstream media gets more of a look in.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by doingmyting on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:37PM (#23866393)
What prevents those trusted sources from being similarly hacked once they're now the main arbiters of important information? I'd even argue this may be more dangerous especially if tech and security are not their core focus.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by akira2501 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:34PM (#23865622)
> The same could be said for radio

Yes, except the FCC can forcefully suspend the operations of a radio station.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by jrumbut on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:39AM (#23867797)
I think radio is probably a better source than Twitter as a whole, however they did air (still air?) Coast to Coast AM for decades.

Though Art Bell said the show was "pure entertainment", anyone who tuned in without that context heard what sounded like a serious news talk program about aliens, crystal healing, reptilians, etc, etc.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by logicprog on Friday July 17, 2020 @12:18AM (#23866965)
Is there any limit on their ability to do this?
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by wyldfire on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:32AM (#23867378)
There's a documentary I saw that explains that the hubbub around Welles' "War of the Worlds" broadcast was just to cover up the arrival of Red Lectroids.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by blaser-waffle on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:22AM (#23870173)
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by easytiger on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:33AM (#23867382)
Not even remotely the same thing.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by zymhan on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:27PM (#23865572)
tl;dr don't rely on a single source
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by Frost1x on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:08AM (#23867245)
Bingo. Information should always be confirmed with at least one other (hopefully) independent source. The more sources, the merrier. If there aren't independent sources then don't jump to conclusions.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by djmetzle on Thursday July 16, 2020 @07:52PM (#23865258)
This.

We've entered a world where the lowest common denominator of information is being used as primary source for current events. That's asinine.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by mansion7 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:21PM (#23865505)
That's partially because the sources formally seen as primary, at least in the US, have started to be viewed as biased and unreliable.

This is largely through their own actions. Examples are legion, but a recent one is debacle at NYT over an op-ed. The news-consuming public was able to view the shenanigans of NYT reporters and staffers, which would formerly been done being the scenes.

Many eyes were opened, and I'm certain I wasn't the only one thinking "These are the people in supposed to be trusting for my news and analysis?"

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by SyneRyder on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:39AM (#23867423)
>That's partially because the sources formally seen as primary...

Newspapers and news outlets aren't actually "primary source". If you read a quoted tweet from Obama in the New York Times, the NYT isn't the "primary source" - Obama is. The NYT is a secondary source that is quoting from primary source.

In that sense, Twitter is actually primary source, because Obama wrote the tweet. Well, except when Twitter is hacked, which is what makes this such a significant event.

(But I agree with your general comment, especially having been interviewed a few times and seen how most reporters work. There are a handful of good ones out there though.)

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by bosswipe on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:05AM (#23868297)
> This is largely through their own actions.

Or it could be the result of a decades long effort to attack credible authoritative institutions by forces that take a dim view of transparency and accountability.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by skinkestek on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:25PM (#23873760)
Possible explanation. But I think it is more like someone took advantage of the situation after the news have been undermining their own credibility for decades.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by mlindner on Friday July 17, 2020 @11:30PM (#23878656)
Accusations of grand conspiracy generally turn out to be false with sometimes a grain of truth.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by TheKarateKid on Friday July 17, 2020 @12:31PM (#23872317)
It's also because these "credible" mainstream media sources started reporting non-credible information as factual. Much of this inaccurate information originates from Twitter.

If 200 people on Twitter are angry at politician X over something trivial, we are served a news headline of Person X accused of Y - Public calls for resignation.

An anonymous person on social media recently made a claim of sexual assault against Justin Bieber with no evidence whatsoever, and the media reports it as Justin Bieber accused of sexual assault. He was fortunate to immediately whip out numerous receipts countering the claims, but what if he couldn't? We would still be reading headlines about this baseless accusation.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by blisseyGo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:06PM (#23866216)
I agree. I have been following the rule of not trusting any such significant news for 48 hours and sometimes even a week because often, news gets debunked or more info comes out.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by dividedbyzero on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:45AM (#23868184)
I must have missed the example you mention, could you elaborate?
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by ergl on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:32AM (#23869109)
>is being used as primary source for current events

Is it though? According to Pew, only 20% of US adults use Twitter: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/10/share-of-u-...

In comparison, Fox news is used as a source by 40% of the US population: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/08/five-facts-...

The share is bigger for Facebook, though (69%)

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by heresie-dabord on Friday July 17, 2020 @10:02AM (#23870540)
This is a catastrophic failure in education and in US democracy.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by blisseyGo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:04PM (#23866205)
I don't think this is new though. The same thing happens on the radio too - and radio can be hacked too.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by phs318u on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:07PM (#23865392)
But is that really new? Other than scale and reach (quantitative difference), how is that any different qualitatively from the old grapevine/gossip network? "My dad's co-worker's, girlfriend's uncle works at ... and said..."
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by mc32 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:43PM (#23865688)
That didn't get disseminated and diffused to tens of millions. If something was published they'd look for official sources or corroborating sources and or secondary evidence. If AP, EFE, UPI, Kyodo, Interfax etc all get their news from one source [Twitter] that's just laziness.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by baddox on Thursday July 16, 2020 @11:08PM (#23866566)
“ A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on” has been a cliche for a hundred years. I don’t think internet social networks are a difference in kind, but they probably are a difference in degree.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by phs318u on Friday July 17, 2020 @12:46AM (#23867144)
Agreed but I said "apart from scale and reach". The point I was trying to make was that people have always found it fairly easy to believe non-credible sources. In this sense, social media is not qualitatively different. Only quantitatively different.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by ergl on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:23AM (#23869069)
A large quantitative change is indistinguishable from a qualitative change: what's the difference between light rain and a flood, between some small waves and a tsunami?
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by phs318u on Saturday July 18, 2020 @02:56AM (#23879608)
What I meant, is that in the eyes/ears of those RECEIVING the information (and believing it uncritically), there's no difference. People have always had a predisposition to uncritically accepting information from those "in the tribe", whether that be extended family, or an internet echo chamber. Presumably this was a survival optimisation. Trust those "close", and distrust "others".
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by buzzerbetrayed on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:16PM (#23865453)
“My dad's co-worker's, girlfriend's uncle works at ... and said...” doesn’t reach the whole world instantaneously
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by jacquesm on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:23PM (#23865968)
It does now.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by gameswithgo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:15PM (#23865447)
the scale and reach
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by rm445 on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:27AM (#23868801)
What you're saying makes some sense - a television broadcast, say, requires effort from a lot of people to produce - and, previously, expensive special equipment to broadcast, though now TV content is often streamed over the web - so it has a level of credibility, the TV news at least can't be spoofed by one person in their bedroom on the other side of the world. (Note that deepfakes may be changing this).

But the world we live in is full of "web services that let people post whatever they want at any time". News from Twitter may be weird but many people want to get their news from the BBC website, or the New York Times, or Reuters or whatever. Or their own government's websites. Just web services that people post from - presumably with levels of editing and checking but all presumably with security flaws that could bypass them.

It's not clear exactly what you're asking for. A technological solution involving careful checking of cryptographic signatures? Or some sort of super-expensive-to-spoof source of all important news?

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by 50ckpuppet on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:22AM (#23870166)
bingo, except america is a nation of jittery anxious monkeys pumped full of unregulated oxycontin and anti-depressants.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by heresie-dabord on Friday July 17, 2020 @11:43AM (#23871741)
This is unfair. You are talking about a nation of 330 million people.

But it is fair to say that there is no sane channel of information. The channels of public discourse in the US, once controlled by a few "loyal, patriotic" corporate owners fed by advertising revenue, are now channels controlled by unprincipled corporatism that supports a two-party system of untalented puppets.

And the un-talent pool is bigger than ever.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by ilaksh on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:07PM (#23865854)
Its almost as if we shouldn't centralize such communication in a single giant private corporation.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by blisseyGo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:08PM (#23866225)
While I am 10000% onboard with decentralizing communication, I am not sure if that would help in cases like this though. Back in 2013, only a single news outlet AP's twitter was hacked and had similar consequences. Decentralizing wouldn't have helped there I think.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by westmeal on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:04AM (#23867934)
Signing the message would be but who uses that nonsense right
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by dividedbyzero on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:14AM (#23868722)
Then you need to make sure people cannot under any circumstances be sloppy with securing private keys, since once they can, some important people will, and then such things happen again, any maybe they'll have actual consequences, people die, markets collapse, economies collapse, wars break out ...

And then? Doing damage control on a fake post by the CEO of Supercorp saying they're faltering financially, or whatever, when it has that green badge of crypto-authenticity, and you've spun your marketing in such a way to tell people "if that's there, it is 100% authentic, just look for that badge" ... that would be a nightmare. It's an issue with "verified" already, but cryptography is essentially magic; many in tech believe they get the nuances but don't really, and most outside of tech don't even begin to get the nuances. Would that damage people's trust in cryptography in general? Maybe?

After all, most people don't know, understand and/or care that their Whatsapp E2E is effectively broken for police and similar actors when they enable backups, because most people care about the details of these things about as much as I care about the exact things my hairdresser does to make my hair look good, which is pretty much not at all unless they want to use a chainsaw or something. If that were to be abused in a major way, that'd probably make big headlines.

I don't think that, at this point, cryptography is even generally helpful with fundamentally social problems like these, because it tends to be incredibly hard to build a product and UX around it that works for everyone and fails in a way that is somewhat understandable and actionable – the amount of work that HTTPS has required and still requires to mostly get there has been and still is huge.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by aahhahahaaa on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:33PM (#23865614)
It shouldn't be, but the bleeding edge of markets have always relied on having the latest data from anywhere that can indicate a shift and I don't expect it to change anytime soon.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by judge2020 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @11:19PM (#23866625)
Exactly. Twitter only succeeds because it's an authoritative source for who a tweet is from. It'll surely be questioned in the future since this is huge, but any other platform getting hacked like YouTube or Facebook would have similar consequences.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by heresie-dabord on Friday July 17, 2020 @10:57AM (#23871210)
Nay, Sir, our brave corporations that regularly sell themselves out to low-cost labour markets will surely defend democracy here and around the world when we call upon them!

Not.

Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by eternalban on Friday July 17, 2020 @08:23AM (#23869723)
Remedy is painfully obvious: make an example of Twitter and pass laws that holds platform operators liable. That should fix all sorts of security problems.
Re:Who’s behind Wednesday’s epic Twitter hack? by eternalban on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:28AM (#23870219)
This is my line of reasoning:

Company X presents the public with communications of known public figure. Company X assures the public, via a blue checkmark, that said communications are from a "verified" account.

Shouldn't company X be liable if someone other than the known figure is making public statements?

It seems logical, fair, and a societal 'good thing', that company X should either let go of the pretense of "verified" communications, or get its act together, or pay the legal price.