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Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @12:31PM (#23860619)
I'm stupid. I give people the praise they deserve, even when it hurts me.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by humanlion87 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:17PM (#23861217)
Same here. I am also stupid in another way - I can't boast of my "incredible" accomplishments by sending out huge and beautiful emails to prove my "impact". With that kind of combination, I am looking forward to stagnation at my current level.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by fbanon9876 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:05PM (#23862596)
I felt similarly, earlier in my career. Until a manager explained it this way: "Suppose you make the greatest thing in the world, but nobody knows about it. Wouldn't it be better to have spent 95% of the effort on making a slightly inferior product, and 5% to actually get people to use it? Isn't it more impactful to make something people use? Well, in order to get people to use anything, you have to talk about it."
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:21PM (#23862777)
Thats a cop out by a lazy or self-centered manager. The difference is that it's the manager's job to evaluate you vs marketing a product to an unknown buyer. A good manager would actively work with their employees to know what is going on. Most managers I've seen care about their own performance and hitting target metrica.

If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making it great, and hire a marketing person to do the other part.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by mynameisvlad on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:10PM (#23863841)
This only works for external products. People make internal tools all the time that can be used by many teams. You're not going to get a marketing person to market the tool internally, that's wasted money.

At that point, it's really your and your manager's (and so forth) responsibility to ensure your product or tool is in the right hands and helps people.

My manager was great at taking on some of the burdens and shielding me from above, while still giving me the flexibility and incentive to work with other teams and people to make sure I was the one everyone recognized for the work done, as opposed to the team or him.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by Uhhrrr on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:02PM (#23863775)
It depends. Over time, I've seen a lot of cases where other teams were duplicating effort, or product owners or project managers were making bad guesses about what was difficult, or impossible, or already done - and the reason was that they either didn't know what was being worked on or didn't understand the impact.

When your head is down in an interesting, thorny problem, it is easy to forget how those other folks are affected by your work, and it's easy to lose appreciation for the fact that their head is filled with a completely different information set. So it can be very useful to spend 5% of your time on this.

Or heck, just try 2.5% - one hour out of a standard work week. Personal anecdote: I wrote up a little thing about why customers would pick one video encoder over another, and marketing just did backflips and started asking my manager if I could write more things.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by darkerside on Friday July 17, 2020 @07:54AM (#23869561)
This strategy is contrary to everything I know about how great teams work. Great teams are allergic to "not my problem" thinking, and teammates have empathy for each other's roles, meaning they learn about what makes each other tick.

Focusing on your own silo and blaming others for the team's failure results in dysfunction, not success. Instead, take ownership of your job and (shared) ownership of the other jobs that interact with it.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by fbanon9876 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:10PM (#23864392)
I think you jumped to assume that it's an external product. You have no idea whether the person in question is lazy or self-centered. The person who taught me this was neither.

In either case, at some point you have to convince someone else that it's worth investing their time. External, this can be dollars (although is that really the best way?). Internally (and optimally), you still need to self-market your product to marketers.

Either way, it's better to spend at least a little time doing marketing. Boiled down from all the hype and jargon, marketing is highlighting the benefits to another person. If an IC is working on a project where they don't know the benefits, there is a larger issue.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by ZephyrBlu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:12PM (#23864422)
> If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making it great, and hire a marketing person to do the other part

You can't hire a marketing person for yourself. Marketing yourself and your work is important because things don't magically get discovered or recognized.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by gowld on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:22PM (#23862795)
"stagnation" mens "avoiding the rat race" and it has mental health benefits that masy be worth more than the raise.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:30PM (#23862885)
I'm stressed because they will find a way to get rid of me if I stagnate too long. They begin to think there is something wrong with you if you haven't moved up. I'm 8 years into my career and this company, I'm a midlevel developer, and have an MSIS.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by walleeee on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:39PM (#23864119)
Sounds like you might consider your quality of life improved with an employer that doesn't expect you to climb arbitrary ladders?

There are a lot of medium-small employers in lesser-known or unsexy domains that under normal circumstances struggle to compete with FAANG/similar to find people. How many are hiring right now I don't know, but it might be an option.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:16PM (#23864471)
I have a family to support and we basically just make with this income, with the possibility to retire someday. My experience is in Neoxam and FileNet, so my options are limited. My wife won't consider moving, so that brings my options to zero.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:31PM (#23861395)
That's me. I don't like visibility. I like to do a good job for the sake of the job without bragging.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by cookienapper on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:44PM (#23863052)
The dilemma is this... "Ignorance is bliss" - You can't be worried/stressed about problems you don't know...

What if you're consistently doing good work but have zero visibility? Then years down the road, you notice a trend of people around you getting promotions/raises/bounses more often than you? The same people that slack off & lack integrity; to name a few. As a human being with emotions... can you honestly say you won't feel resentful in your moment of realization?

I am asking as someone who's been in that situation more times than I care to admit... I do good work for myself and for the sake of doing good work; I take pride in the work I do... but as most of it was never communicated, no one knew about it and just took it's results for granted; I was bypassed for raises, promotions, etc... Was it worth it? I can't give you a answer... it's a very conflicting place to be.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by thinnerlizzy on Thursday July 16, 2020 @04:31PM (#23863513)
I have this problem myself. I've gotten around it in the past by taking roles where the visibility is already baked into it, but I've never really solved the root problem. Now I'm a mostly anonymous, invisible contractor at a FAANG, and I don't know that there's a way break through that even for those most determined.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:11PM (#23865880)
Thanks! Maybe I'll reconsider becoming a chief of staff.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by ZephyrBlu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:15PM (#23864462)
Is there a particular reason you never communicated your work?

I think people have an obligation to share the work they do, especially if it's interesting or impactful. Because if you don't, then generally no one else will.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:57PM (#23863181)
I'm definitely resentful and demoralized.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by indymike on Thursday July 16, 2020 @02:59PM (#23862517)
That's why having a culture where people share their gratitude for your being helpful, competent and otherwise awesome really matters. The self-promoters always look good, but the best people - and those that make the best leaders - often don't self-promote.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by velp on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:20PM (#23862765)
I feel this, and it's challenging because visibility is important for advancement. My manager advised me to think of the broadcast emails/posts as ways to boost the people I collaborated with, and that's helped a lot. It doesn't feel like I'm tooting my own horn, people still see the impact of projects I contributed to, and my colleagues are always enthusiastic to work on projects with me because they know they will get good visibility and be "given" they credit they deserve for their contributions.

Granted my role is very crossfunctional, but I think it's pretty unusual to be consistently impactful working in your own silo. So boosting my collaborators gets me the visibility benefits, without feeling insincere, and contributes to a work culture that is collaborative and supportive.

For context, I lead an analytics team at a FAANG company.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by natalyarostova on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:11PM (#23861112)
You'll always have people across the industry who want you to go work with them :)
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:25PM (#23862818)
Thanks, but I'm turning into a miserable, no skills, scrooge so I don't think that will be the case much longer.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by PopeDotNinja on Thursday July 16, 2020 @12:35PM (#23860661)
I'm stupid in this way, too.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by shahbaby on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:08PM (#23861088)
I used to be this stupid too but then I learned that it's better to just play their game, win and then move on, no point in fighting it, just think of it as another part of the job.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by allenu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:30PM (#23861378)
This is what I do now after trying and failing at "doing my best work and hoping to get recognized".

I'm bad at communicating when I've worked on something challenging, so now I realize I should never give more effort than can be noticed. You may think that's cynical, but this is a business and I'm paid not on what I actually do but what the business perceives me of doing.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:45PM (#23861572)
Thanks! I might look into trying that mindset.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by jupyternonuser on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:06PM (#23864344)
In another comment you say you find the lying and mindgames to be morally offensive. How do you not find this morally offensive as well?
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:19PM (#23864500)
I read this as not giving any extra effort, which I think would help reduce the reliance of my self image on my work success. I wouldn't be lying and I wouldn't be playing head games.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:37PM (#23861466)
I want to, but I find the lying and mind games to be morally offensive, especially when they can have such a large impact on a person's wellbeing.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by amznthrowaway5 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:44PM (#23861566)
This is my problem as well, and seeing all of the unfair behavior -- with average performers who are easy targets getting PIPed while the lowest performers who are the managers favorites get top ranks or promotions -- is really annihilating my morale.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by ZephyrBlu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:17PM (#23864476)
How is communicating what you're working on lying or using mind games?
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by discordance on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:27PM (#23865991)
We aren’t always lucky enough to get a project that will shine, yet all projects are compared with the same eyes.

That can lead to having to ‘lie’ or act overly proud of work you know is essential but boring.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:49PM (#23864766)
This comment was in response to "...it's better just to play their game...".
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by ZephyrBlu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:51PM (#23864778)
Yes, and the game is to promote your work and have it noticed.

You do that by communicating. Where is lying and mind games involved?

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @07:04PM (#23864889)
That might be the game at your company. The company I work for lies and plays mind games. I assume all large companies do - just look at other comments in this thread that suggest this.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by ZephyrBlu on Thursday July 16, 2020 @07:09PM (#23864929)
Can you explain how the lies and mind games come into play at your company?

It seems like most other people are talking about gaming metrics, not lying and playing games.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @08:33PM (#23865613)
See the comment above your's about "unfair treatment".

At my company, your rating should be evaluated against the standard according to HR policy. I have been given a low rating in the past simply because somebody else got a high rating. Some departments require that the highest rating be 'balanced' by giving someone a lower rating, even when they don't deserve it. I know this because I have friends in management who have confirmed this.

The year after this, I filled the role of a tech lead as an intermediate developer. I was a key part of an enterprise-wide upgrade and recieved a commendation from the leader of that initiative. I was up for the highest rating, but did not get it. Why? Somebody else on the team was also doing an awesome job and they didn't have an FDN from the prior year. Policy states that only the current year should be part of the rating. My manager even said they believed that I "...deserved a distinguished rating, but [they] couldn't get it". Not to mention, can you imagine giving two out of ten employees an FDN to balance out two distinguished?

I left that team for a new team. On this team I got an average rating, but 12% of my target bonus (we are a pay for performance shop). Why so low? Because I took parental leave and my point count wasn't as high as others'. HR policy forbids point comparisons and also forbids any negative impact from taking parental leave. This team also tried to state that my work as an Application Security Champion for the system was not to be counted as part of my job, but as a supplemental role. Policy stated that it should be considered part of my job. I filled this role for six teams across two departments and received very positive feedback from two individuals that I interacted within the security subdivision.

These are probably half of the major issues which impacted my monetary, promotion, or rating outcomes.

As for head games, they play too many to list. One very memorable one is how I was told by my manager that some people only have the potential to be an intermediate developer, but later being told that if I stay in that position too long they will try to get rid of me because if you stay in that position for too long it shows you don't have any potential.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @12:43PM (#23860755)
How's your career? Did this have an impact?

Mine is ruined and this might have contributed a little. I'll never be more than an intermediate developer and I'm worried about being fired/laid off.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by t-writescode on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:29PM (#23861370)
Don’t believe that about yourself for a second. I regularly scored low marks at a previous company of mine; and, even during one review, I got a ‘you improved a lot! But your coworkers improved even more, so you’re getting a [low rank] again.’

I’ve since moved on to different positions at different companies and am doing plenty fine. I’m even the senior member on a new team I’m joining now.

A few bad years or even many bad years don’t end your career :)

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:40PM (#23861508)
I once had a manager give me an FDN rating and when I asked what I can do to improve she told me "just keep doing what you're doing".
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by opportune on Thursday July 16, 2020 @02:04PM (#23861823)
I’ve been told this several times when I’ve asked what I could do to get a higher rating or promotion. It always meant that there was some tenure element to the rankings. I think from the manager’s perspective they are being both honest and reassuring, but from the report’s perspective, it’s very frustrating knowing your progress is being limited, and hard work wasted, due to some bureaucratic limitation. And knowing that in practice it’s possible for exceptions to be made and it’s possible your manager isn’t advocating strongly enough for you.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @02:44PM (#23862341)
At my company it wasn't a tenure thing, although I think that played an informal role as to why I was picked vs someone else. When a manager picks someone for the highest rating some departments require the manager to also pick someone as an FDN to "balance it out".

In this case I know the guy that got the high rating. As weird as it is to say, and even when the wound was fresh, I was/am happy for him and he deserved it. He's a nice guy and he had nothing to do with the rating I recieved. He's now a manager several levels up.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by opportune on Friday July 17, 2020 @12:51PM (#23872579)
Ah, I didn’t realize “FDN” was a bad review
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:34PM (#23876773)
Yep, it shows up on your record for 3 years when posting for a new position or promotion, maybe longer for management positions.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by PopeDotNinja on Thursday July 16, 2020 @02:53PM (#23862447)
What's an FDN rating?
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:05PM (#23862592)
Further development needed, aka you're not successfully meeting expectations for your role.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by castlecrasher2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:21PM (#23861265)
>I'll never be more than an intermediate developer

Do you mean this at your specific company? I felt the same way in my last company because there was definitely nowhere to go up, but I've since moved on and am in a more senior role.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @01:36PM (#23861453)
I'm in my 30 with a family and find that I am much slower at learning new stacks now. I was a FileNet developer and then a Neoxam developer. There aren't many opportunities for me.

I'm also just tired of the bullshit and and mind games that management plays. My current plan is to gamble in the stock market and 'retire' whenever I can't take it anymore or get fired. I would love to retire to run a small farm and/or work a retail job like Lowes.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by perl4ever on Thursday July 16, 2020 @07:53PM (#23865263)
If you don't like the industry you're in, programming culture, or the software stack you're used to, one way to break out of it is to get a low level office job in the sort of place you want to work and figure out how to solve problems with technology among people who don't normally have developers at their beck and call.

This is also, I think, how you find a job that is very stable and secure - focusing first and foremost on something other than technology until they can't imagine hiring someone off the street to replace you who doesn't know the business.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:10PM (#23865872)
Thanks! I've sort of considered moving into a business role and becoming a business analyst. Seems like a huge pay cut (that I can't afford) and years of wasted effort.

I actually have a business administration minor and trade options and equities, so I have a better understanding of finance and the business than most people I work with in IT. I work for a large financial company and my previous team was amazed that I passed my CFA Foundations class without studying (it's not difficult like the CFA level 2 or anything).

Maybe I'll reconsider becoming a business person.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by brabel on Friday July 17, 2020 @07:14AM (#23869339)
With a knowledge of finance and software development, you should be able to choose jobs that use both but focus on either... I would expect such jobs to pay extremely well and there to be plenty of them, even if your current skills are a bit rusty!?! Maybe you're just overly reluctant to start looking for other jobs?
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:47PM (#23876890)
I've been browsing jobs for the month or two. I also browsed jobs when I was in my previous position. I'm not finding many jobs that fit my experience/skills.

I don't have any financial licenses or experience. I have a minor in business admin, but that doesn't mean much on a resume. So hardcore financial jobs aren't really an option. A tech job in a financial field could be good though.

The problem I'm finding with tech jobs is that they want an expert in a given technology. I have experience in Neoxam and FileNet, which are not very common. I would have to take an entry level job, but I'm just able to support my family now (with the hope of one day being able to retire). I'm also finding it much more difficult to learn new stacks as I'm getting older.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by PopeDotNinja on Thursday July 16, 2020 @02:51PM (#23862430)
Wanna go 50%/50% on a farm? We can be nerd neighbors.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:07PM (#23862613)
Haha sure. I'll need to at least triple my money before I can even think about this as more than a dream.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by IggleSniggle on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:49PM (#23864201)
Not that poster, but in my personal experience praising others is good to match with humble by noisy comments about the work you are doing.

Whether this works or not depends if you have any psychopathic coworkers, which isn't something you can really know very easily.

I also don't think the actions of others really define whether or not you are "intermediate," unless you're only talking about some corporate ladder bullshit.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by gowld on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:24PM (#23862807)
Why are you worried about being fired? If you are underpaid for your work, your manager is happy to have you.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:27PM (#23862841)
I recently switched stacks and I'm not coming up to speed as fast as they would like.

I'm also becoming demoralized after being looked over or screwed over for about 4 years.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by driverdan on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:12PM (#23862678)
If praising others hurts your position you should find a new employer.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:23PM (#23862804)
If only it were that easy for me...
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by sjtindell on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:22PM (#23862793)
How can giving praise hurt you?
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:32PM (#23862915)
If the company's unofficial policy is that if someone gets a high rating on the team, then someone else must be given a low rating to balance that out, even if they don't deserve it.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by sjtindell on Thursday July 16, 2020 @04:15PM (#23863345)
Thanks, I haven’t experienced that. How painful. I agree with other posters here when I read about your problem in these comments. Personally I think of my manager and performance review more as symptoms or results of a process, rather than the source of anything. Promoting myself - Github, LinkedIn, trainings and brown bag sessions for my coworkers, program completion emails, those are part of my job just as much as personal learning, architectural planning, and writing code. In fact because I don’t want to fear for my job, they are almost more important. Perhaps it’s not the ideal. But it’s the job description. There are so many pluses to what is essentially a god-level nine to five grind: freedom, intellectual work, lots of money and benefits, etc. I just accept that some of these non-ideal extras are part of my deal. Hope I’m not preaching, trying to help.
Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @06:26PM (#23864562)
Thanks for sharing!

I loved giving a brown bag on Raspberry Pi project to my teammates. I know it's not a great work related topic, but installing and using linux and tips on securing it was at least tangentially related.

I have to say, I wish I made lots of money.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by vlz on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:30AM (#23868109)
> someone else must be given a low rating to balance that out, even if they don't deserve it

I wonder how this kind of thinking starts. Is there any rationale for this?

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by benhurmarcel on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:01AM (#23868644)
In my company, employees grades have to follow a normal distribution (HR rule). Most people must be ranked average, some must be ranked above, some must be ranked below. Otherwise all managers would give above average grades to most people, because it makes them look better, avoid conflict, and everyone is always convinced they're above average. So HR forces managers to find some losers.

If a coworker is given an above average grade, it means I'm much less likely to get one.

But in practice it doesn't matter too much because managers tend to distribute grades depending on time since last promotion/significant raise, to be able to justify the next one.

Re:When your coworker does great work, tell their manager by giantg2 on Friday July 17, 2020 @07:12AM (#23869331)
The thinking is based on the budget and also to make managers show "managerial courage" that they are capable of delivering bad news.