News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by zbrozek on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:17PM (#23749401)
Lots of folks here are talking about the latency and throughput, but nobody is amazed at what the robots are doing. Plugging in cables and putting down tape is fiddly and hard. I'm super impressed that they elected to automate those things based on cost merit. Massive kudos to the manufacturing engineers who managed to pull that off.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by vmception on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:26PM (#23750234)
I had invested in a semiconductor factory early last decade, and it had started making bitcoin miners, it had reminding me of Zion from the Matrix because it seemed like the first time that a machine could make another machine which could immediately start earning a negotiable asset and then transacting for resources.

Very surreal to think about.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by AceJohnny2 on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:51PM (#23751347)
There was this little game I played on Linux years ago where you played an AI trying to reach singularity status while evading detection by humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame:_Singularity

Early in the game, you'd hack machines to run mechanical-turk style jobs to earn money. Later you'd build a factory to manufacture more processors... ;)

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by vmception on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:07PM (#23751531)
Haha just a few years ahead of its time!

Some of the first bitcoin faucets had captchas to “reduce spam”, as in prevent humans from getting too much free bitcoin, but really the captcha was a real captcha that a bot was stuck on, and was just paying humans to solve them to access some greater bounty

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by wallacoloo on Monday July 06, 2020 @09:21PM (#23754635)
Morally ambiguous, but I actually implemented exactly what you’re describing back when bitcoin was at $50-100. I found some service that would pay me $1 for every 1000 captchas I solved, and then I scraped that and built a BTC faucet site (I think I called it captchacoin.com, or captchabit.com) that would essentially pay the user $0.50 in BTC for each captcha they solved.

It went from 0 captchas per day to 10000 captchas/day over the course of about a month with just word-of-mouth. Then the upstream service just quit paying me with no explanation. My accuracy rates were good. Maybe latency was high? I don’t know why they terminated it. But I struggled to keep the users while finding a replacement, and in the end I shut it down.

On the one hand, I’m bummed, because that thing could have mostly run itself and made a tidy profit for someone still pursuing a degree. On the other hand... maybe it was for the best: 90% of captcha solving work is paid for by spammers who make the internet worse.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by AceJohnny2 on Monday July 06, 2020 @09:59PM (#23754873)
Have an upvote for the story, but don't pretend it was "morally ambiguous". That was plain evil with one level of detachment, and helped enable spammers and scammers.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by anoncake on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @09:21AM (#23758921)
Not only scammers and spammers are restricted by CAPTCHAS. Helping bypass them would only be immoral if they were never used to prevent scraping or other illegitimate purposes.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by vmception on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:19PM (#23754998)
cryptocurrency needed faucets and it helped adoption
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by voltagex_ on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:40AM (#23756066)
Cryptocurrency is the biggest backwards step for the climate since CFCs.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by vmception on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @02:12PM (#23762254)
Thats a huge misconception actually, the information you have is the amount of energy being used, but you don't have information on the source of the energy.

Would you be willing to accept or at least corroborate that cryptocurrency mining is one of the cleanest sectors and a boon for sustainability?

70-80% of that energy use is renewable energy or reducing pollution - specifically hydrocarbons. So existing energy is not being wasted or reallocated, and additional unclean energy is not being ramped up to facilitate mining, and previously wasted energy that was going into the atmosphere is now being used.

The educated discussion is to make sure it stays this way. As nation states are the only actors that could mine at a loss with inefficient ways.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by mxcrossb on Monday July 06, 2020 @11:40PM (#23755483)
It seems like there should be some way to cut out the middle man and build an entire currency based on solving captchas.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by lolbrels on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:42PM (#23753132)
I actually utilized an API that did just that in some automated software I wrote with a friend a few years ago. Was actually sort of interesting how it all worked with sending the captcha then checking for the solution string after the person had solved and inserting that back into the page before carrying on.

Pretty sure at the time the cost was something like .013 cents per solve. I always wondered who the people sitting there doing that were or what their situation was.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by dorgo on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:31PM (#23752407)
The next step takes place after the singularity and ist the other way around. Humans try to stay below the awareness of the AI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_War:_Fleet_Command

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by waste_monk on Monday July 06, 2020 @11:14PM (#23755333)
I remember playing this a decade or so ago and just went to the site to grab a copy for old times sake...

>Download 1.00, released 07-04-2020

Mindblowing that this is still under active development after all this time. I can't wait to get home and play it to see what's changed.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by sl1ck731 on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:05PM (#23752126)
The combination of being played on a real world map and covertly growing/spreading reminds me of Plague Inc. I wonder if any inspiration came from this.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by shostack on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:35PM (#23751829)
That sounds like it has some Universal Paperclips vibes.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by AceJohnny2 on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:27PM (#23752354)
It is a "cookie-clicker" style game, with the added twist that you have to evade detection, so need to balance risk/reward of various upgrades.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by sbierwagen on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:50PM (#23753206)
If you try to download the Windows version from http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/ Chrome blocks the download, saying that the .rar contains a virus.

Downloading singularity-1.00-win.zip from https://github.com/singularity/singularity/releases/tag/v1.0... also fails.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by voltagex_ on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:41AM (#23756070)
Works for me. https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file-analysis/ZGU3MDg0YjM3MjU... comes up clean, too.

Edit: Cylance doesn't like the main exe. I think Cylance is full of shit.

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/39e13204ff3dea8b00a93f73...

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by shard on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:47PM (#23755199)
Is that how the game starts? With the AI trying to infect your computer upon install? That's pretty meta.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by vladTheInhaler on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:56PM (#23753720)
There is a very interesting and creepy story about this called The Gig Economy [1]. Machines end up sending gig workers to do inane tasks, like photographing a certain building at a particular time, to take advantage of bizarre arbitrage opportunities too complicated for a human to notice. Eventually, everyone is just a peripheral of this enormous, inscrutable system skimming money off the real economy.

[1] https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/the-gig-eco...

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by matthewfcarlson on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:35PM (#23761767)
Reminds me of a short run podcast called The Program (https://programaudioseries.com/). It's a historical documentary about the rise of "The Program" which is basically an AI directed gig economy becoming the economy. It asks people to do strange things for seemingly arbitrary reasons but it makes sense when you realize what all it is doing.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by psychometry on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:59PM (#23753282)
If the field of impact investing has an opposite, I'm sure that automated production of bitcoin miners is a part of it...
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by tasssko on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:18PM (#23753436)
I always considered a machine backed conglomerate to be the next big thing.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by foobiekr on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:49PM (#23751316)
Every discussion of highly-automated factories brings to mind this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSj6kvv7_Sg

Early lights out production. The problem became obvious a little later, for NeXT, which was that these things only make sense at very high scale for products that change infrequently.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by 411111111111111 on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:13PM (#23751589)
these boards werent consumer producs though. playstations are produced for years with no alterations.... millions of times. i.e. playstation 4 was sold ~100million times. thats most definitely at a scale where you can automate with margins.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by sbierwagen on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:57PM (#23752055)
Game console manufacturing definitely is low-mix compared to cars, but it's not like they're stamping out spoons: depending on how you count, there were something like 19 revisions to the PS3 motherboard, as Sony worked to reduce chip count and shrink PCB size: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by krasin on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:19PM (#23752269)
Specifically, in the context of assembly, as long as dimensions and locations of each connector stay the same, it does not really matter for the automated assembly line.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by monocasa on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:34PM (#23753050)
They made changes to the case, board, and connectors.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by AmericanChopper on Monday July 06, 2020 @08:45PM (#23754439)
I was trying to clean the dust out of my PS4 a little while ago, and had to browse through quite a few YouTube videos before I found a disassembly tutorial that matched my model.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by noir_lord on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:07PM (#23753345)
If the level of automation is sufficiently cost effective perhaps they’ll have fewer revisions on this one.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by nitrogen on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:38PM (#23751857)
Years ago I worked for a company that had a PCB production line, and even for relatively low volumes (compared to consumer electronics) they used basically that exact process. The PCBs would be printed elsewhere and delivered in flat stacks, the boards would go through pick-and-place, solder bath, reflow, through-hole, wave solder, sometimes xray inspection, etc. Also had a tour of an Iomega plant when I was much younger with similar processes.

Not sure if NeXT was a pioneer in those techniques, but they seemed standard by the late 1990s and 2000s.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by foobiekr on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:18PM (#23752855)
NeXT was very early. That was 1987 or so.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by 6510 on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:07PM (#23752149)
Fascinating, then the component shooting game moved to 200 000 cph (which is well over 9000) https://www.yamaha-motor-im.com/mounters/ysm40r
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by baybal2 on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:46PM (#23753168)
The top tier "chipshooter" style pick and place machines are going our of favour these days.

Their golden days were during the first cellphone boom. Back then, the level of integration was lesser, and you had more discrete components on more smaller boards, and volumes were of course very high during the boom time.

Now, you can have a "dumphone" made with just 30 parts on the pcb, and very few passives.

From my experience over the decade, people running factories came to love having multiple, cheaper mounters, and more lines.

The "superboard" concept is also seem to be waning, as you see more, and more individual boards in products like smartphones. It makes for less manufacturable designs, but additional labour expense is not dramatic.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ironman1478 on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:57PM (#23752050)
Just wanna say I love this video. Thanks for posting this.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by jccooper on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:19PM (#23749426)
I'm surprised they didn't design out stuff like tape. Although perhaps they did and the article actually means handling things like ribbon cables, which is super impressive, as humans can barely handle those.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by zbrozek on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:39PM (#23749646)
My guess is that they have flex cables (and not so much ribbons) and tape. Other electronic devices - including modern ones - that I've taken apart lately include quite a lot of both.

There are three flexes in just this one iFixit photo of one side of a Switch Lite: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/sbTwHYTEZOaWX3IQ.f...

Tape takes a number of forms. Holding down flexes to manage pull-out forces is pretty common. You can do that with traditional single-sided tape if you have the space on something to adhere it, but increasingly common is a double-sided tape on the flex itself. You peel off a liner and stick it down. It wouldn't surprise me if there are liner-less heat-activated tapes too, but I don't know of them myself. That's outside my domain.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ehnto on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:40PM (#23749651)
I changed the board on my 3D printer today, the biggest hurdle was all the wire and plug manipulation. I play guitar, piano, type all day, you'd think I'd be good at it. It was like trying to pick up a grain of rice with two cucumbers.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by jschwartzi on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:04PM (#23749899)
When I work with this type of thing I use different kinds of tweezers (chip pullers, flat/round end, angled, etc). The ends of most FFC/FPCs are reinforced partly to provide good contact in their mating connector and also to make it easier to insert the cable with enough force without damaging it.

The spiky-ended tweezers will damage an FFC though.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by imglorp on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:33PM (#23749581)
Really. A dot of hot glue to hold a cable down must be easier.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by zbrozek on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:41PM (#23749674)
All the manufacturing engineers I've talked to hate doing fluid dispense. Glue is in a class all its own because if you take the line down it tends to cure in the dispenser or nozzle.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Qworg on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:21PM (#23750152)
Fluids/moltens are a nightmare.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by _bxg1 on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:42PM (#23749688)
The PS4 officially supports replacing the internal hard drive, and that's not even getting into the question of repairs
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Pxtl on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:07PM (#23750812)
If I could have one change to electronics manufacturing, it would be a ban on glue for non-waterproof devices. Most repair-hostile trend in history.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ornornor on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:41PM (#23751233)
I took apart my PS4 Pro several times since I own it. It’s very easy to do, nothing is glued, and the plastic clips that hold the cover in place don’t break when you unsnap and snap them back.

The only thing is an obnoxious warranty void sticker that delaminates if you don’t lift it carefully but even then I don’t think it’s legal to void the warranty with a sticker (Switzerland, bought from a EU retailer)

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by beenBoutIT on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:03PM (#23761285)
You can get replacement stickers for around $10 on eBay. Sadly the PS4 line looks a lot better with the stickers on as they hide exposed screws.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by foxfired on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:50PM (#23749769)
There is a interview of Elon Musk with MKBHD. He was precisely referring to this as being one of the issues when they were trying to automate the pipeline. The machines just couldn't plug a loose tube in its place. Maybe they should have consulted with Sony.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Retric on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:30PM (#23750282)
Tesla tried it because the technology was mostly ready back then. The difference is a PlayStation has vastly fewer cables, far simpler routing, and problems can more easily be fixed. People can physically pick up a PlayStation diagnosis the problem and then put it back, try to do that with a car.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by rootusrootus on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:38PM (#23751184)
Also, Sony has to hit a much lower price point, and they made about 10x as many consoles last year as Tesla made Model 3s. Both of those seem like they'd make the automation ROI better for Sony.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by baybal2 on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:54PM (#23750650)
Is Tesla model S was made to be manufactured on a "lights out" line, it will look like their Cybertruck.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by filoleg on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:20PM (#23750973)
What does "lights out" mean here? Is it a way to describe a nearly fully-automated production line?

If that's the case, then aren't they using it for Model 3/Y already? If yes, then I have to disagree with you, because neither of those cars look anything like Cybertruck, even stylistically.

EDIT: thanks for explanation in the replies, it makes sense. If anyone has any additional insight as to how it affects production lines that are, let's say, 90% automated and 10% manual, your contribution would be heavily appreciated.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by tantalor on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:26PM (#23751047)
The pure definition of “lights out” refers to a fully automated facility where human hands never touch a product during the entire manufacturing process. In theory, a true lights-out plant would operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week, with downtime only for routine maintenance or repair.

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/94982-lights-out-automa...

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by pstrateman on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:30PM (#23751090)
It's called lights out cause the machines don't need lights, so why pay for them?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by belltaco on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:43PM (#23751255)
Is that true for computer vision based robots? Or do they use lidar or something?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by TacticalTable on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:01PM (#23751468)
It's less of a literal concept and more of a figurative one. The factory floor would certainly be fully lit.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by jonny_eh on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:09PM (#23752781)
An LED lamp should be sufficient.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Dork1234 on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:25PM (#23751035)
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by sprafa on Monday July 06, 2020 @01:08PM (#23749954)
I think what Elon learnt from that experience is that manufacturing things is hard, and that building that knowhow and ability to both build and troubleshoot robot factories like this one is not something you do overnight, even if you hire the best engineers.

Basically it’s unlike software and that might be where he stumbled.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by SkyMarshal on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:42PM (#23751240)
Andy Grove used to talk about this a lot - that manufacturing know-how does not come easily, and that continuous improvement and innovation in manufacturing depends on continuing to actually do it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/opinion/andy-groves-warni...

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by barrenko on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:51PM (#23752605)
That man was something else.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by blackrock on Monday July 06, 2020 @05:17PM (#23752852)
It sounds like an engineer can assemble or design another robot to do this specific task. Then you’d have to clamp down that loose tube afterwards.

Maybe with the AI vision recognition systems being developed now, that such a robot will become available in the future.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by aahhahahaaa on Monday July 06, 2020 @11:22PM (#23755381)
I imagine there are certain times where you end up redesigning the tube instead!
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Animats on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:13PM (#23751597)
Exactly. Things built for vertical assembly, like the Sony Walkman and the Apple Macintosh IIci, are easy to assemble automatically. All the assembly moves are straight down. This has those annoying cable connectors that have to be slid in edgewise. Yet they got that to work.

I'm amazed that Sony let out detailed pictures of the cable connecting operation. Looks like they use both a camera and a force feedback wrist.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Smoosh on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:16PM (#23754974)
> Apple Macintosh IIci

Insert meme "Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time"

But I still have one somewhere in a cupboard.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Animats on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @09:15PM (#23766026)
That was the end of Made in America for Apple. They moved production to low-wage plants and quit designing for automated assembly.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by falcolas on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:32PM (#23749571)
> Plugging in cables and putting down tape is fiddly and hard.

Really? That's fascinating to me, given how accurate pick'n'place robots are. I would have thought they required similar capabilities.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by d-sc on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:38PM (#23749628)
The robots are accurate, but the cables are not. Pick and place robots deal with uniformly sized parts that come in nice reels.

Cables and tape are not as uniform and have a tendency to move in random directions.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ardy42 on Monday July 06, 2020 @03:22PM (#23751687)
> Cables and tape are not as uniform and have a tendency to move in random directions.

I'm sure someone's probably already thought of this, but couldn't you deal with that by having two manipulators that hold the cable by both ends while keeping a small amount of tension on it? The cable could be picked up by dispensing it through a narrow U-shaped hole (to stop the loose end for grasping), or by gluing one end to a dispenser reel then having the one of the manipulators follow the cable to the other end like a person would pull a rope through their fingers.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by contingencies on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:08PM (#23752165)
Pick 'n place are usually only XYZ fixed-envelope cartesian systems with additional part rotation about one axis. Sometimes the XY is replaced with dual rotary units (SCARA), or XYZ are replaced with delta systems. See https://www.valin.com/resources/articles/five-types-of-indus... for a good overview here. Plugging in cables requires fine and reliable gripping at two ends plus additional degrees of freedom, and a clear path through a more complex motion envelope for access. This generally necessitates a move to arms, which come with additional issues (play at extreme positions, repeatability constraints, higher cost, power and space requirements, non-square envelope, slower motion, etc.) Having two of these work together on a flexible part means very fiddly parallel control of two systems with these drawbacks. Basically it's expensive because good end effectors cost a lot, parallel control exceeds conventional industrial requirements, industrial control systems are purposefully non-standardized, sensors have to be added in an application-specific manner and subsystems prototyped as requirements are identified, and experienced talent is hard to find.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by yladiz on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:35PM (#23749591)
I think it’s in part due to the pressure thresholds to put cables in, as too little pressure means the cable isn’t connected but too much could damage either the cable or thing it’s attaching to.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ashtonkem on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:38PM (#23749624)
Also chips are rigid bodies, while tape & ribbon is flexible and can push back and fold in unpredictable ways.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Pxtl on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:10PM (#23750846)
Reminds me of an old matsci engineering prof I had "everything you need to know about mechanics is f=ma and you can't push on a rope".
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by ehnto on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:45PM (#23749710)
Maybe part of the success is in pre-packaging the wire and ribbon to act predictably, similar to how ribbons of surface mount components come on uniform tape reels instead of loosely in containers. You can crease or bend things to be predisposed to movement in certain directions.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by pbhjpbhj on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:06PM (#23750799)
Don't you then 'just' use a ribbon with a plug & socket. PS4 is massive, size constraints can't be that tight?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by usrusr on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:47PM (#23751294)
> I'm super impressed that they elected to automate those things based on cost merit.

Seven years production run (or more), that should explain a lot. Even if hardware revisions changed significantly in that time (I wouldn't know) that's still a completely different calculation than something that changes annually, or even twice a year, as Sony's own Xperia phones used to.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by CobrastanJorji on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:27PM (#23752350)
Could you elaborate the cost merit thing? It was my main question and I couldn't find anything on it. How much do they save using robots instead of people to attach some cables? Is the benefit in failure ratio or do they actually expect to save some money by designing and building robots?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Konohamaru on Monday July 06, 2020 @09:08PM (#23754563)
This is only tangentially related, but the dictionary isn't helping me distinguish between these two concepts. In networking what is the difference between bandwidth and throughput, if there is a difference?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by wyldfire on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @12:14AM (#23755615)
The other comment regarding latency/throughput is a good place to start because those can often be in contention.

But bandwidth is not quite the same as throughput either, so I'll answer your question genuinely. Bandwidth typically refers to the actual channel capacity for a single link. Maybe that's your PCIe lane, your wifi channel or your HDRadio channel. The bandwidth is often measured as the spectral width of the channel in frequency. But those channels include some coding for error detection or compression.

Ultimately what matters most is what kind of throughput the channel can deliver. This is the metric that is often measured in bytes or bits per second. A one gigabit Ethernet card is intended to deliver one gigabit/sec of throughput with the Ethernet channel coding. So if you hooked up a test device to your NIC it should be able to drive frames through an otherwise unoccupied channel at one gigabit/sec. But to keep the example interesting, end-users would generally measure throughput with all the added layers of coding and protocol provided by a network stack. The term "bandwidth" is much more nebulous when someone uses it to describe traffic spanning various buses and network media. I'd take context clues and assume that this usage of the term is somewhat like throughput. Though perhaps you could consider the independent physical channels as a single logical one and extrapolate some kind of conceptual bandwidth?

Sorry, starting to ramble a bit at the end there but I think you may get the gist.

Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by zbrozek on Monday July 06, 2020 @09:35PM (#23754706)
Did you misread latency and throughput?
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by Konohamaru on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @12:36AM (#23755722)
No. I went to look up throughput in the dictionary and couldn't understand how it was different from bandwidth.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by beenBoutIT on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:09PM (#23761366)
Even more impressive when you consider that the robot built PS4 is by far the easiest PS for a human to disassemble and reassemble by hand.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by agumonkey on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:57PM (#23749826)
I think Musk will be interested... this is touching the part he couldn't automate in his factories.
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by raj_khare on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @12:26PM (#23760804)
They must have played factorio over 3000 hours
Re:Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory by andalusian_ipa on Monday July 06, 2020 @02:35PM (#23751148)
Massive kudos to the newly unemployed!