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Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by whoisjuan on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:34AM (#23649011)
Zoox raised almost a billion so terrible exit for the investors, who basically just parked their money for several years. Zoox likely ran out of money and nobody wants to keep dumping money in this space given the anemic progress in the last couple of years.

But here is an interesting take. Amazon is an formidable acquirer and probably the only big-tech that knows how to squeeze from their M&A activity.

They probably saw this years ahead. Many companies were going to develop technology in this space and it was likely better to acquire one of those than to develop in-house. And the reason is very simple: Amazon doesn’t invest in greenfield projects that are not customer facing. Look it up. Almost all the behind the scenes impressive tech they have was acquired at certain time.

For example. AWS proprietary chips come from their acquisition of Annapurna Labs. All their warehouse robotics come from their acquisition of Kiva Systems.

All their modern video tech comes from their acquisition of Elemental.

Their customer facing acquisitions also play a similar playbook but in a more -fill the market gap- kind of way. “We need a supermarket, let’s buy Whole Foods”. “We need routers for the Alexa ecosystem, let’s buy Eero”.

Also kind of interesting that they are an opportunistic buyer (almost vulturous) that most of the times only pulls the trigger when the acquisition target is in their lows.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by redredrobot on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:02AM (#23649464)
> Amazon doesn’t invest in greenfield projects that are not customer facing

I don't think this is very true, they are just very good at turning around and selling the internal tech.

The underlying technology for AWS was developed internally and it was not customer facing at first.

Similarly if you look at their internal data platforms, they have invested heavily even though it's not customer facing (yet, because eventually they will start selling services inspired by the internal systems via AWS).

I remember watching a presentation on how they invested large amounts of money into prototyping FC robotics technologies.

If you look at AWS Kinesis or EventBridge, the technologies were developed for internal usage before they were sold. There is also considerable investment into distributed consensus technologies that hasn't been turned directly into products (yet).

You're kind of right in that Amazon doesn't spend much time working on greenfield projects that don't have any forseeable business value (in contrast to say Google), but that is in many way a product of their organizational structure where two-pizza teams are supposed to do 'research' as part of their product work rather than having a pure R&D division.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by scarface74 on Friday June 26, 2020 @09:47AM (#23651915)
The underlying technology for AWS was developed internally and it was not customer facing at first.

Will this myth ever die?

https://www.networkworld.com/article/2891297/the-myth-about-...

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by justicezyx on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:20PM (#23654430)
I think the internal tech is definitely part of original AWS, but of course, quickly it grows beyond that, and the majority of aws has no relevance with other Amazon tech. But the statement is definitely right at the beginning.

Plus, AWS no longer use such narrative anyway.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by scarface74 on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:34PM (#23654612)
No it never was. AWS was always built from the ground up to be an external service. A number of publicly available interviews say the same thing.

https://www.se-radio.net/2014/12/episode-216-adrian-cockcrof...

Edit: that’s not the right podcast. This was before he went to AWS. I can’t for the life of me find the interview.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by Tempest1981 on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:22PM (#23655212)
Did Amazon internally dog-food it before it went public? Maybe that's the confusion.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by scarface74 on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:33PM (#23655320)
I can’t speak for how it worked in the past, but AWS and Amazon are run as two separate companies. AWS treats Amazon Retail just like any other customer and Amazon treats AWS like a third party vendor as far as choosing whether to adopt an AWS technology.

But if someone with deeper insight than someone who has been working at Amazon/AWS for -3 days (I start Monday), I’m glad to be proven wrong.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by 7952 on Friday June 26, 2020 @07:41AM (#23650880)
Wasn't there an edict that amazon internal services have to be designed from the ground up to be externalizable. So even internal technology is designed with being customer facing in mind.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by strgcmc on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:44PM (#23654749)
There is no mandate that I'm aware of (not that I know everything about everything), but it's definitely the case that projects with "externalization potential" (making up a phrase out of thin air) will generally be more likely to get funded and prioritized (of course, why wouldn't they be preferred?).

So, even without a mandate, the market forces at play in terms of proposing roadmap projects and choosing what to invest in, will naturally tend to favor those solutions with can pull double-duty (solve an immediate problem/pain-point that Amazon already has, and with a clear path/potential to be converted into or evolve into an external sell-able service too).

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by bkanber on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:10PM (#23655767)
Here is Bezos' mandate from 2002. Quite prescient: https://jesusgilhernandez.com/2012/10/18/jeff-bezos-mandate-...
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by strgcmc on Tuesday June 30, 2020 @11:10AM (#23690842)
It's a little different from the idea of "all services must be something we can turn around and sell to customers", but yes it was a good idea to enforce service interfaces and forbid tight coupling at a architectural level.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by dahfizz on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:09PM (#23656397)
I think this is what you are referring to[1]. I don't think the goal is making everything externizable, I think the goal is just to have good api's everywhere. Easy productization is a side effect.

[1] https://medium.com/slingr/what-year-did-bezos-issue-the-api-...

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by TheCoelacanth on Friday June 26, 2020 @10:03AM (#23652059)
Does than mandate predate the creation of AWS?
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by xxpor on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:49PM (#23654819)
According to the Yegge rant, it was some time around 2001/2002/2003, so yes.

https://gist.github.com/chitchcock/1281611

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by throw24234 on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:05AM (#23649173)
> Also kind of interesting that they are an opportunistic buyer (almost vulturous) that most of the times only pulls the trigger when the acquisition target is in their lows.

Unsurprising since Bezos himself worked in a Hedge fund. The Autonomous Driving hype train is slowing down, so this is the perfect opportunity for this move.

Interestingly, with this move, Bezos can soon rival Musk for the next 'billionaire super genius rock star' position.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by zxcmx on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:00AM (#23649453)
They both want a planet. Musk wants to take over Mars. Bezos wants to take over Earth.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by redredrobot on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:04AM (#23649480)
Actually if you pay a little attention to Bezos, it's clear that his focus has been outer space at least since he was a college student. IMO Amazon was an opportunity that Bezos saw while Blue Origin is the fulfillment of his lifelong dream.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by throwaway1777 on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:20AM (#23649574)
So if it’s his dream when does he start actually focusing on it?
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by simonh on Friday June 26, 2020 @06:23AM (#23650447)
About 9 years ago when they started development of the BE-4. Up until then Blue Origin was mainly a think tank and research project.

I've been quite dismissive of Blue Origin in the past, their pace of development seemed so sluggish compared to SpaceX, but I think that was somewhat unfair. It seems Bezos only really started pouring money into the project a few years ago though. BE-34 does seem to be behind schedule, or at least the launch vehicles are by a year or two, but that's par for the course for big rockets.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by tosssingaway567 on Friday June 26, 2020 @06:28AM (#23650471)
Well, it a money burning venture, by making amazon bigger and bigger he is contributing to blue origin.

He funds blue origin with more than a billion $ every year from the sales of his own amazon stock. Without amazon filling his pockets he can't finance blue origin.

He puts more of his money in blue origin every year than the amount amazon will pay for zoox

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by redredrobot on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:31AM (#23649633)
What do you mean? Prior to COVID I thought Bezos had his full attention on Blue Origin
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by numpad0 on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:21AM (#23649862)
Bezos builds self regulating machines that use humans, Musk’s imagination stops at exploiting human labor efficiently and there lies a gap I think.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by 0x8BADF00D on Friday June 26, 2020 @10:35AM (#23652409)
> The Autonomous Driving hype train is slowing down, so this is the perfect opportunity for this move.

Zoox in particular was a LARP of an autonomous driving company. Until any of these companies start manufacturing, they’re literally LARPing. At least Tesla shipped an actual product.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by wutbrodo on Friday June 26, 2020 @12:15PM (#23653656)
Tangentially, it seems like calling people LARPers has very rapidly become a universally-used cliche. Has anyone else noticed that? I've seen it used for months, sparingly, but in the last couple of weeks it's everywhere (I've seen it literally three times this morning, on different fora about vastly different topics).
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by 0x8BADF00D on Friday June 26, 2020 @12:19PM (#23653703)
It’s particularly applicable to startups that burn through a bunch of cash and then exit for a pittance.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by wutbrodo on Friday June 26, 2020 @12:33PM (#23653871)
Sure, I wasn't trying to make any point about your comment. I just thought it was a really fascinating example of how language spreads and evolves,slowly at first then all at once. Please excuse the musing haha
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by 40four on Friday June 26, 2020 @10:54PM (#23659145)
You point is interesting how speech patterns catch on and become the phrase 'du jour'. I think the internet has changed that dynamic, it used to be only withing people you saw face to face. Now we're exposed to a much wider range of people and styles.

Anyhow, I haven't seen the trend of calling out an entity as being a LARPer. But I have to admit, it's kind of funny. It does make me giggle :)

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by sitkack on Saturday June 27, 2020 @08:37PM (#23665872)
It has mostly hit the internet mind-brain because of tacticool cops larping has gun toting heros.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by jkingsbery on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:14PM (#23654382)
As someone who works for Amazon, I can tell you there is plenty of impressive technology built within Amazon that is only used internally to Amazon.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by wildfire on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:13PM (#23655119)
I doubt it, otherwise you would name it.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by sjg007 on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:23PM (#23656550)
I imagine all the robots and logistics stuff.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by Lavery on Friday June 26, 2020 @12:38PM (#23653940)
>Amazon is an formidable acquirer and probably the only big-tech that knows how to squeeze from their M&A activity.

Not really sure how you're using "squeeze" here, but Instagram and Whatsapp were both, with the benefit of hindsight, phenomenally successful acquisitions.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by whoisjuan on Friday June 26, 2020 @12:52PM (#23654115)
I agree with you. Instagram was an excellent acquisition. WhatsApp was an OK acquisition, not because is not a great product or good ecosystem play, but mostly because it came at a premium price and it hasn't been monetized yet.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by mav3rick on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:52AM (#23649102)
This is clearly just cherry picking. They did NLP + Echo + Alexa in house. Cloud / servicification on their own.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by WoahNoun on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:25AM (#23649269)
>Amazon buys text-to-speech software company Ivona

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-ivona/amazon-buys-...

>Amazon to acquire Yap, move into speech recognition?

https://www.theverge.com/2011/11/9/2550764/amazon-acquires-y...

>Amazon has reportedly acquired Evi for voice-guided search

https://www.engadget.com/2013-04-17-amazon-may-have-quietly-...

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by re on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:01AM (#23649156)
> They did NLP + Echo + Alexa in house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evi_(software)

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by ritz_labringue on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:15AM (#23649212)
Your parent is specifically talking about greenfield projects that are not customer facing. Alexa/Echo is customer facing.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by whoisjuan on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:55AM (#23649124)
That’s customer facing. Read my comment again. I’m talking about non-customer facing / utilitarian technology that is used to facilitate their customer facing services and products.
Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by discodave on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:06AM (#23649177)
Annapurna is customer facing now with Graviton. Also, we don't know how much they invest after acquisition.

I think Annapurna was more strategic than you think.

* James Hamilton in 2010: https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2010/10/datacenter-network...

* Annapurna acquired in 2015.

* In 2017 they reveal that every EC2 server has a Nitro (Annapurna) chip for networking: http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-29/aws-ec2-virtuali...

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by whoisjuan on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:27AM (#23649281)
Yeah. I guess you could say that’s customer facing. In any case is not a purely customer-facing acquisition like for example AWS acquiring Cloud9 so they could offer a Web IDE.

Chips are peculiar because they matter a lot in a customer facing way but they are not a 100% transparent feature. I think AWS customers couldn’t care less what their instances are powered by as long as they are 1) Fast 2) Cheap 3) Secure. But the chip happens to influence those things heavily, so they become almost like referential values to aggregate those characteristics in a way that’s easy to market.

Re:Amazon to pay $1B+ for Zoox by yomly on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:54AM (#23649115)
Those are customer facing mostly no?