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Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by f00zz on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:21AM (#23625862)
No surprises, the country is deeply hostile to capitalism and innovation. Brazil is not poor by accident. Too bad, as this could have been a boon to small businesses.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by tehjoker on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:27AM (#23641131)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics-chicagobo...

Also as a reminder, Brasil had a military dictatorship overthrow a social democratic movement in order to implement economic privatization. Bolsonaro is famously a huge fan of the dictatorship years.

The dictatorship was US backed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9...

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by victords on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:50AM (#23626047)
That's quite a jump to conclusion... I don't think that the issue here is Brazil's position on capitalism or innovation, there are other companies providing similar services there.

The issue seems to be a juggernaut company like Facebook, with all the flaws that it has, trying to enter the payment sector of a developing country without regulation or notice.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by f00zz on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:14AM (#23626201)
> a juggernaut company like Facebook

More likely Brazil's central bank doesn't want competition with its own payment system (Pix).

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by m1aw on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:20AM (#23638162)
But there's also other companies/services like Picpay and stuff right?
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by rescbr on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:17AM (#23639759)
There are, and they are registered as payment processors or e-wallets. Facebook isn't.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by Anarch157a on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:35AM (#23639931)
The Central Bank wants a system that's interoperable, so in certain ways, Pix promotes competition.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by Dacod on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:15AM (#23626204)
Honestly! It kind of reminds me of Marc Andreessen's "Anti-colonialism has been economically catastrophic for the Indian people for decades. Why stop now?” comment.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by Synaesthesia on Thursday June 25, 2020 @09:03AM (#23640204)
It’s working out for China somehow though ..
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by rescbr on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:14AM (#23639722)
> the country is deeply hostile to capitalism and innovation

Sure, but payment processing, money transfers, e-wallets etc. are regulated matters in Brazil as they are in the EU and in the US.

Facebook is not registered as a financial institution and is not a participant in the Brazilian Payments System, unlike PayPal and other local and international players, so you can figure out why the Central Bank put a stop to Facebook's launch.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by whb07 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:27AM (#23627078)
Yep, only people to suffer will be the little ones whilst the larger players get to be piggish on the fat margins.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by tchaffee on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:38AM (#23639057)
Brazil has massive investments coming in from foreign investors on a steady basis because of the capitalism and innovation.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by rbanffy on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:22AM (#23641068)
I believe this person probably thinks Brazil had two socialist presidents, Lula and Dilma (plus a socialist interim one, Michel Temer) prior to the God-chosen one it has now.

I wouldn't engage.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by duaoebg on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:12AM (#23638524)
Brazil is a corrupt highly taxed basket case. I know plenty of people who left.

The govt there tried to buy some software from me and then tried to tax the international sale by %40 after the price was agreed. I added the tax on top and they pulled out.

I have a unofficial free for Latin America donation program for different software because of all the end users from there who can’t afford it. They write to me explaining their situation.

I think a distinction should be made, if at all possible, between capitalism and corporatism. Brazil is pro-corporatist and anti—capitalist. This is common in Latin America with its crazy wealth distribution.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by f00zz on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:43AM (#23639092)
> tax the international sale by %40

I'm not surprised. In general, import duties are around 60%, and that's not even the full story. The (foreign) company I work for sent me a development board once; when it arrived here I found out that, in addition to those 60%, I'd have to pay 18% state taxes. I was expecting this to add up to 78%, or even 1.6 * 1.18 = 89%, but in fact it's computed like (1.6 / (1 - 0.18)) = 95%.

Ostensibly, these tariffs are meant to protect the local industry from foreign competition. I heard that there are certain other countries trying to do the same; they should be careful what they wish for.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by duaoebg on Thursday June 25, 2020 @07:12AM (#23639269)
That is rough. I was unaware of the heavy import taxes. But they’re the ones buying so they should pay the tax, expecting me to sell internationally tax inclusive was weird, and possibly a miscommunication with an intermediary, or someone was trying to pull a trick. I think my competitor must have done some transfer pricing with a local branch.

I understand the rational for protectionism and at the same time worry about the future it will lead to. The ability to buy just about anything from just about anywhere was one of the things I really liked about the US.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by rescbr on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:21AM (#23639803)
I've never seen international sales being tax inclusive. The buyer (or local branch) always pays, and they are responsible to pay the tax authorities.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by elhenrico on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:25AM (#23639841)
As a Brazilian I think this measure is very flawed. In more than 30 years, the national industry regarding technology has gone from insignificant to nonexistent (excluding some specific monopolies with low end "junk").

These rates only harm the population and businesses that need to import technology to maintain work operations.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by tchaffee on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:47AM (#23639114)
Taxes in Brazil are very low except for taxes on imports. It's not anti-capitalist within its own economy. The startup scene in Brazil is thriving.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by zekrioca on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:32AM (#23638260)
> "Deeply hostile to capitalism".

They are avoiding a monopoly to surge.

> "Brazil is poor".

I guess one has to travel.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by skuzye on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:17AM (#23638564)
Speaking as a Brazilian - the country is an odd one. If you go by GDP it should be a rich country but it just isn't.

It's rightly classified as an emergent country. It has deep social and poverty problems that needs addressing even though it's a regional economic force.

Brazil is definitely capitalist but it's hard to do business there - 144th place in economic freedom index.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by f00zz on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:07AM (#23638870)
> If you go by GDP it should be a rich country

Not really. GDP is large, but that's only because the population is large. Per capita GDP is around US$ 9k, which makes us poorer than Mexico or Argentina. For comparison, per capita GDP in Sweden is something like US$ 54k.

I remember being taught in school that Brazil is the n-th richest country in the world, and if only that wealth were evenly distributed we could all enjoy a welfare state like in Europe. That is simply not possible. But I guess many people here still believe it because the country has a few highly visible pockets of wealth.

Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by pedrocr on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:14AM (#23638914)
Comparing to Sweden is a bit extreme. Portugal's comparable GDP is 24k. It's still a factor of 3x but a lot of the costs in a welfare state scale with the wealth of the economy as they are just directly cost of labor. Having a reasonable welfare state, that's not world-class but isn't the US either, should be possible.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by 317070 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:02AM (#23639637)
Yes, Brazil is practically halfway between Portugal and Angola. It's half the GDP per capita of Portugal, but twice that of Angola: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by rbanffy on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:27AM (#23641128)
Brazil is a country of contrasts. If you are upper middle class, you more or less live in a "Portugal", have excellent healthcare, your kids go to good schools and your retirement will be comfortable. If you are below a certain line, things get worse very quickly until you reach the poorest rural regions where you live effectively like the poorest people in the world.
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by Synaesthesia on Thursday June 25, 2020 @09:04AM (#23640220)
Brazil should be wealthy. It has every advantage, huge amount of resources, no natural enemies ...
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by olcor on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:29PM (#23642476)
Re:Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments by Peepootoler on Thursday June 25, 2020 @11:04AM (#23641557)
But it also has 3rd world demographics. AFAIK Asian / Jewish / White Brazilians hold significantly more wealth than the Pardo and Black populations.