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Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by krustyburger on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:39PM (#23276691)
I have no idea if it’s true, but I’ve heard that a major factor was recent pushback he was getting from YouTube with respect to contrarian coverage of the pandemic. Apparently he wanted to have guests who would provide alternative public health narratives and was told that this was a no-go on YouTube. Much of his audience consumes the show as video on YouTube and Spotify is another major brand that will offer a similar experience. He is hoping that Spotify will give him more creative freedom and apparently was successful in incorporating some guarantees into his new contract. I do know that during his recent live episodes there have been opinions shared about the quarantine and the pandemic that would have caused issues with YouTube’s current policies regarding public health misinformation.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by Consultant32452 on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:17PM (#23277156)
Tim Pool (news commentator and multi-Rogan guest) called Rogan and apparently this is misinfo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izHSJ3OFJ2E

They start out by talking about some of the issues you mentioned. They break mid-way, and apparently Tim got off the phone with Rogan and cleared up that censorship was not the primary motivator. The cut to after the Rogan call is 15:27.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by krustyburger on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:56PM (#23277531)
Hmm. It may still have been a motivator, if not the primary one. He still intends to host clips on YouTube and Spotify probably doesn’t want to be seen as a refuge for problematic creators, so he may have reason to downplay this angle publicly.

For some reason he has done a 180 from his earlier position on Spotify as quoted in the article.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by krainboltgreene on Saturday May 23, 2020 @02:39AM (#23280520)
Anything Tim Pool says should be treated with a ten foot poll.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by Consultant32452 on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:12AM (#23280691)
Regardless of what you think about Tim Pool, the speculation that censorship was a primary motivator of this move came from Alex Jones. So...
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by me_me_me on Monday May 25, 2020 @05:28AM (#23299471)
Or one of them said something stupid and wanted it out of podcast. Which is absolutely fine. We will never know.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by tzekid on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:36AM (#23280803)
Care to explain why? I'm curious.

In my experience he's as unbiased as a journalist can be regarding American happenings.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by koiz on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:43PM (#23276740)
>Apparently he wanted to have guests who would provide alternative public health narratives and was told that this was a no-go on YouTube.

As it should be.

>He is hoping that Spotify will give him more creative freedom

Spreading pseudoscience isn't creative, its destructive.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by bmarquez on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:49PM (#23276813)
> with respect to contrarian coverage of the pandemic

How is contrarian coverage "pseudoscience"?

An example of contrarian coverage is the suicide rate rising due to the Bay Area stay-at-home order: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23269396

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by deadbunny on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:58PM (#23276932)
How is a report from medical professionals on an abc affiliate contrarian?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by revnode on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:14PM (#23277128)
It's contrarian if it cuts against the majority opinion, not if it comes from some obscure source from a lunatic. There are many legitimate contrarian opinions, many of which later become the mainstream opinion.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by umanwizard on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:06PM (#23277031)
Because by far the dominant narrative among urban, educated people is that continuing lockdowns are worth it because they prevent death from COVID-19. Arguments that the lockdowns are doing more harm than good are (wrongly, IMHO) associated with political conservatism, rejection of science, and so on.

Thus, evidence of the harm of lockdowns can be considered contrarian, regardless of whether it comes from medical professionals.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rz2k on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:26PM (#23277254)
I have never been in an accident where I was helped by wearing a seatbelt, and preparations for Y2K cost many times more than any of the harm that was caused by Y2K bugs. Considering that I've never experienced malnutrition, I seem to waste a lot of time money and effort on nutrition, too.

Ignoring mental health consequences of difficult times is foolish, but this sounds much more like it was a "well, actually" sort of conversation meant to stroke people's egos.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rthomas6 on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:50PM (#23277467)
The argument isn't that that point of view is correct. The argument is that it should be allowed to be presented.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by threatofrain on Friday May 22, 2020 @08:27PM (#23278644)
The problem is that Google is exposed to political, financial, and legislative risks from all sides -- or else Google would host all content, including pirated movies, and they'd pass off all liability to the primary offender.

Then they'd collect advertising revenue based on all the eyeballs they can get.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rumanator on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:58PM (#23278023)
Do they want to present it or to misrepresent it?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by cc81 on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:35PM (#23277844)
To be honest this is a novel disease that is affecting the world a lot right now and we simply don't know the best way forward.

This is not the flu, it is much worse, but we are generally not enforcing "seat belts" to protect the vulnerable even close to as much.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by boomboomsubban on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:07PM (#23277053)
That is a perfect example of pseudoscience, the article linked is anecdotal interview with two people working in one hospital. It never mentions anything about the rate.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by aeternum on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:54PM (#23277509)
From the article: "We've never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time," he said. "I mean we've seen a year's worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks."
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by boomboomsubban on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:27PM (#23277780)
In one hospital. That alone makes it pseudoscience. A years worth of suicides is likely between 10-40 suicides, which is tragi but doesn't show that the quarentine is causing the problems it says. For example, the rise could be due to medical workers being overtaxed due to the pandemic, or some change in which hospital is receiving patients like this.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by manigandham on Monday May 25, 2020 @02:37PM (#23303575)
That's not how science works. Please stop calling it pseudoscience just because you don't agree with the findings.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by boomboomsubban on Monday May 25, 2020 @04:04PM (#23304396)
What two people say they experienced is not science. Even calling is pseudoscience is generous, it's an anecdote.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by manigandham on Monday May 25, 2020 @07:45PM (#23306055)
Science is based on observations. And I hope you realize the pseudoscience is far worse than anecdote (which is a personal observation).

Furthermore, economic depressions lead to suffering and death. This is a fact that's widely known and studied. Ignoring all the coming secondary effects to focus on only acute deaths from a single cause is clearly not scientific either.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by boomboomsubban on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:06PM (#23307043)
Science is based on observations, an observation isn't science. That article was taking one data point, assuming the same thing was happening everywhere, and decided there was only one possible cause.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by manigandham on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:18PM (#23307093)
Then it's not pseudoscience either. Why so much resistance to an observation if you accept it is as such?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by boomboomsubban on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @01:40AM (#23307778)
Taking one observation and assuming it applies everywhere with one possible cause is pseudoscience. If the article just said "we've seen a lot of suicides, here's how to get help" I would have no problems with it.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by gotoeleven on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:54PM (#23276878)
Someone who simply reads CDC recommendations with a 3 week lag would probably violate these policies.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by jayd16 on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:07PM (#23277061)
Devils advocate here but If you extrapolate this argument to 1600s medical advice then surely you'd be correct and I think for good reason.

I'm not sure what exactly you're suggesting (if anything).

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by mc32 on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:22PM (#23277211)
It just means that in a span of a few weeks the evidence itself (what we know and how we understand it) can contradict itself. So basically if you say that’s okay, it’s the authoritative source, that’s fine, but it means other people might not be authoritative but may be right. So the question isn’t so much why give one preeminence based on past performance but rather why censor others who might have a case to be made?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by manigandham on Monday May 25, 2020 @02:46PM (#23303657)
Nothing is as destructive as someone deciding what everyone else gets to see and hear.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by umanwizard on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:03PM (#23276993)
Can you point to any concrete example of Joe Rogan spreading pseudoscience?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rthomas6 on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:51PM (#23277474)
I mean, I can when the subject is drugs...
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by shoulderfake on Friday May 22, 2020 @07:17PM (#23278197)
Like what ? when subject is drugs tell me
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rthomas6 on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:47PM (#23279083)
How weed is harmless and has no risks, and is actually helpful and could cure all sorts of ailments in people. Or how taking psychedelic drugs and using sensory deprivation tanks is great and you should totally try it out, no risks there.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by moltar on Friday May 22, 2020 @11:03PM (#23279483)
I don’t think JR had ever claimed anything as absolutely harmless.

But he did compare harm rates, for example of alcohol, which is perfectly legal and is sold in abundance EVEN during this health crisis and weed.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rewoi on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:14PM (#23277121)
Sometimes it is good to have some balance from official sources. WHO:

* Masks do not work on corona virus

* Taiwan is a Chinese province, not an independent country

* Corona virus does not transmit between people.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by jlmorton on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:20PM (#23277194)
The WHO certainly never claimed that SARS-CoV-2 does not spread between people. They said human-to-human transmission had not been confirmed.

The very first signs of human-to-human transmission in the epidemic were on Jan 14th, as some family members of the initially-identified cluster began to fall ill. At this time, there were about ~50 identified cases, and zero deaths.

On January 20th, one single incubation period later, as healthcare workers began falling ill, both China and the WHO confirmed human-to-human transmission.

There are large numbers of examples of respiratory illnesses that do not easily transmit between humans. Most commonly, there are frequently outbreaks of H1N1 influenza from farms, with animals as the primary vector. Among coronaviruses, MERS transmits very poorly between people.

Would you have preferred the WHO loudly proclaim the virus easily transmits between people when there was no evidence that it did? That would be absurd.

Please stop spreading this misinformation.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by Will_Do on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:45PM (#23277409)
What a strange comment.

Taiwan informed the WHO in December that person to person transmission was likely taking place[0]. The only sense in which it hadn’t been confirmed is in a tautological sense the WHO hadn’t confirmed it. Doctors in Wuhan were getting infected and Taiwan had proof of that.

[0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644...

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by jlmorton on Friday May 22, 2020 @07:33PM (#23278316)
Talk about a strange comment. Taiwan's email did not inform the WHO of anything at all. In fact, it is best described as nothing more than a wild-ass guess.

China notified the WHO on December 31st of a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause, and noted that the patients had been isolated.

Taiwan's health minister then emailed the WHO, suggesting that the unknown illness might well be SARS, and made note of China's acknowledgement that the patients had been put in isolation.

Taiwan had zero first hand knowledge of the the virus, and zero information on the virus beyond what China had provided to the WHO and what had been reported in social media.

Taiwan's health minister's email to the WHO was literally based on nothing more than China's own statements to the WHO, and social media rumors. That is it in its entirety.

Again, like I suggested to the original commenter, please stop spreading misinformation.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by cc81 on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:45PM (#23277931)
Taiwan did not mention in their email that person to person transmission was taking place. They said that WHO should do their own investigation.

Taiwan had no proof, they just did not trust China.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by rumanator on Friday May 22, 2020 @07:11PM (#23278144)
> The very first signs of human-to-human transmission in the epidemic were on Jan 14th, as some family members of the initially-identified cluster began to fall ill.

If you're referring to the case covered by the article published in The Lancet[1], those patients were admitted to hospital between Jan 10 and Jan 15.

Yet, prior to that date there were already reports the virus spread between humans.

[1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by cc81 on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:43PM (#23277917)
Taiwan, or its official name: the Republic of China is not a member of the UN and the US does not recognize it as an independent country either.

There is a lot of diplomatic weasel words and trade offices instead of embassies to keep that up but it suports the One China policy.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by javert on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:14PM (#23277129)
Let people decide for themselves what media to believe and what media to disbelieve. It's the only way to have a free society.

It may not work if too many people are too stupid. But it may work if enough people are smart enough. And it's the only way to have a free society.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by BubRoss on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:01PM (#23276977)
Joe Rogan typically makes a point to say what he doesn't know and tries to get interesting experts in his show. Have you watched much of his show?
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by MisterBastahrd on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:13PM (#23277118)
He typically has no idea what they're talking about and thus lobs softball after softball at them, even when he pretends to disagree for devil's advocate sake. Most of his bigger named guests have carved out echo chambers for themselves, and Rogan lends them credibility.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by perditus on Sunday May 24, 2020 @07:13PM (#23295794)
I think that approach is valuable and "softballs" are only bad if you're assuming Rogan is a journalist, which he isn't. He's a comedian, an entertainer, and a conversationalist (and, of course, a martial artist). People tune in to hear him have interesting conversations with interesting (and often wacko) people.

That's his appeal--few people would be interested in hearing him grill his guests. We have CNN for that. Saying he "lobs softball after softball at them" is true but not really a bad thing given that he doesn't claim to do otherwise.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by manigandham on Monday May 25, 2020 @02:44PM (#23303639)
He's not an interviewer. He just has conversations with people, sometimes friends, sometimes famous scientists, and sometimes people with interesting stories.

You're free to listen to the uninterrupted hours of talk directly from the guest and form your own opinion. That's usually a far better way to learn about someone than following an opinionated interviewer asking "hardball" questions that don't get clear answers anyway and will reduce the caliber of guests to appear in the first.

Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by BubRoss on Friday May 22, 2020 @05:32PM (#23277296)
You realize he doesn't have people on to grill them right? He has done well over a thousand shows with hundreds of different people. When you say 'most of his guests' are you talking about John Carmack, Tony Hawk and Rhonda Patrick or are you talking about the one time he had the guy who started the 'proud boys' on? I think a lot of people take this all or nothing stance on one bad guest out of recreational outrage without actually watching him.
[dead]
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by BubRoss on Friday May 22, 2020 @08:57PM (#23278802)
You didn't confront what I said in any way.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by MisterBastahrd on Friday May 22, 2020 @08:59PM (#23278814)
I can't help it that you tried to build a strawman to avoid what I said.
Re:Joe Rogan got ripped off by BubRoss on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:49PM (#23279091)
You didn't name anyone or say anything of substance, you were just vague and dismissive without specifics.