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Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by cosmodisk on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:18PM (#23248656)
Because they are fed up with making pennies. It's the case in pretty much every country,only in the US they tend to have a little bit more so called opportunities because of mass obsession about anything military related. In my own country the guys from special forces take unpaid holidays and go abroad for some lucrative private contracts because the government pays peanuts.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by kthxbye123 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:32PM (#23248842)
Between their salaries, hazard pay, pensions, government hiring and contracting preferences, free lifetime healthcare, free tuition, free graduate tuition, free job retraining and zero-interest mortgages, U.S. soldiers are amply compensated, and there are plenty of legitimate opportunities available for guys from elite units like the Green Berets. None of the guys writing tell-alls or turning to a life of international crime and /or mercenary work are doing it to put food on the table, they do it because they're thrill- or fame- or money-obsessed psychos.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by stonogo on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:19PM (#23249367)
"Hazard pay" is $150 per month at most. The "free lifetime healthcare" gets eroded every congressional session (for a while there they took away dental coverage), and the VA health care system has a well-deserved reputation for being a nightmare factory. There is no such thing as a "zero-interest mortgage." The only benefit to a VA loan is the zero-down-payment. The only way to retire on a full-salary pension is to serve for forty years.

There are benefits to serving, but troops are not well compensated compared to the work performed. I'd also be interested in what you think the job market looks like for someone who has spent twenty years in a combat arms MOS. Most of the officers wind up well-prepared for management roles, but I don't know any enlisted retirees who didn't have a hard time transitioning.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by mywittyname on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:48PM (#23249704)
In recent years, there seems to have been a push to hire vets into lucrative positions in the private sector. I know anecdotes are frowned upon here, but all four veteran friends/family of my own age managed to land very good jobs immediately after discharge. None had any college degrees, one (special forces) landed a mid-level management position at a bank, two (technical MOS) went into IT for defense contractors, and the latter ended up as a manager at a construction company.

Interestingly, the last one served ~2 weeks before receiving a medical discharge due to complications from a high-school football injury. He graduate high school, did practically nothing for two years before enlisting. Comes back a month later a veteran with a medical discharge and is getting multiple job offers.

Granted, special forces is pretty difficult to get into, you have to be smart and physically capable. So I'm sure there's a healthy amount of selection bias going on there. People capable of getting into the SF are generally capable of excelling anywhere.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by whowhatwhy on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @05:59PM (#23252431)
> Interestingly, the last one served ~2 weeks before receiving a medical discharge due to complications from a high-school football injury. He graduate high school, did practically nothing for two years before enlisting. Comes back a month later a veteran with a medical discharge and is getting multiple job offers.

Sounds fishy to me.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by goatinaboat on Thursday May 21, 2020 @01:00AM (#23254953)
Hazard pay" is $150 per month at most.

Re-enlistment bonuses in the SEALs can be as high as 6 figures...

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by stonogo on Friday May 22, 2020 @01:14AM (#23268853)
Re-up bonuses for special operations are capped at $100k amortized over half a decade. It's good, but it's hardly wealth.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by vasco on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @05:00PM (#23251740)
What's the right amount of money to get to kill people in the name of who knows what?
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by stonogo on Friday May 22, 2020 @01:15AM (#23268856)
You should expand your understanding of the United States military mission.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by munk-a on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:41PM (#23248958)
Is this the same free lifetime healthcare that other vets get that involves frequent denials and years long waiting lists to get treatment?

The US is pretty terrible to their armed forces - but they're quite nice to the R&D side of the military, because that's the side that's in competition with private industry.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by jki275 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:13PM (#23250595)
There's no free lifetime healthcare.

It's less expensive than private health care, but it's not free, and it doesn't cover everything, and it's standard government run bullshit. And it goes away as soon as you become medicare eligible and you have to go on medicare.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by arkades on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:22PM (#23248713)
I can't make any claim to expertise, as I've only known a handful of these folks in the US, but from what I've heard, they don't make pennies. They just make a lot less than what private industry is willing to pay for mercenaries.

There is, in fairness, a difference.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by blaser-waffle on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:43PM (#23248976)
As true with code as with pulling triggers. Work for the Feds and pull 150k around DC and a security clearance. Some of the seniors at big contractors pull big $$$. Meanwhile, you can get a total comp of 400k or more working for a FAANGM out west while smoking weed everyday and banging foreigners.

My understanding is that the SOF and SEALs get paid well, even as enlisted folks (who get paid less than officers), but why settle for an adequate paycheck when you can have a kick-ass one? Doubly so, since the kinds of people who become Spec Ops are hyper-motivated and deliver results.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by wh-uws on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:49PM (#23249040)
Its frustrating when people trot out FAANGM as if thats a standard take just anyone can get.

Its great if you can get through the interview process at some place decent (I did for the record).

But that's like saying "I'll just go play for the NBA".

Competition is stiff

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by cosmodisk on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:09PM (#23249264)
Well,yes,it is tough,but then again,if someone's pulling $400K in total comp writing code, that's not something that just lands from the sky. Outside of tech industry you'd need to be a VP, or even a CEO to clear that kind of money,so yes, it's expected to be tough.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by wh-uws on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:00PM (#23250458)
Totally agree with you but in the context of the comment I replied to the guy made it seem as if it's like why take this government pittance when I can just wave a magic wand and get a job and get a job at <insert your favorite top tier tech company>

I was merely pointing out that it is muuuuuch more difficult than that comment made it seem.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by arkades on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:58PM (#23251062)
I mean... FAANGM for programmers is probably a fair comparison to being a SpecOps soldier, right? It's also a cream-of-the-crop type scenario.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by rsynnott on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:39PM (#23250240)
> and banging foreigners

Wait, what?

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by bb611 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:15PM (#23250612)
Pretty sure GP is talking about restricted/banned activities for government workers and contractors with clearances:

- You may not smoke marijuana - it violates federal law.

- You are required to regularly report on close contact with foreign nationals, though I'm not sure a casual hookup meets that criteria. But if you're in an ongoing sexual relationship with a foreign national the Feds will want to know.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @04:24PM (#23251342)
Can't leave the country without permission.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by eloisius on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:35PM (#23248878)
This is also how Los Zetas formed. A bunch of elite soldiers figured out they could make a lot more money as enforcers for drug cartels.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by alasdair_ on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:34PM (#23250174)
>This is also how Los Zetas formed. A bunch of elite soldiers figured out they could make a lot more money as enforcers for drug cartels.

And then very quickly figured out that the "drug cartel" bit was the easy part and they got rid of their employers rather quickly.

The whole Zetas story is a fascinating one. If only their employers had read The Prince:

"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were. Thus it was that Charles, King of France, was allowed to seize Italy with chalk in hand;"

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by Mirioron on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:44PM (#23248985)
If you think about it, it's a bit odd that there are so few mercenaries in this day and age. When you look back on history then from what I can tell, mercenaries were much more common.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by smacktoward on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:58PM (#23249820)
It's not an accident. Nation-states spent an awful lot of time and money building up professional armies precisely because they had long experience depending on mercenaries. They knew that there were only two ways depending on mercenaries ever ended: either the country couldn't pay the mercenaries enough, in which case they sold them out to a higher bidder; or it could, in which case the mercenaries would eventually get tired of only getting part of the country's wealth, so they'd overthrow the government and take all of it. Professional armies let the nation-state escape this trap.

Unfortunately professional armies fail the one test that matters these days, which is the number of opportunities they provide for private actors to siphon money into their own pockets. So we have decided to ignore the lessons of history, because private profit today is worth social collapse tomorrow.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by alasdair_ on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:39PM (#23250245)
To stop this problems and other problems, like people in places like the SEC immediately going to work for companies under SEC investigation when they leave, and other revolving doors, it would probably be worth paying higher-level people (special forces operatives, District Attorneys, EPA commissioners etc.) a much higher level of pension that starts paying immediately after leaving the job, contingent on their lifetime disbarment from certain kinds of employment. If the person wishes to go work in such a position, that money needs to be paid back immediately.

It won't stop everyone, but done correctly it could stem the most egregious of revolving doors.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by kipchak on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:46PM (#23249683)
Given the increased importance of having better tech and weapons in modern warfare, maybe the modern equivalent of a mercenary should include private contractors/R&D alongside boots on the ground.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by mywittyname on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:56PM (#23249796)
I'm sure it already does. All of those companies selling information to the police are probably selling it to well-connected private entities as well. Or hell, the mercenaries may just own these tech companies outright: look at the devos family.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by alasdair_ on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:40PM (#23250255)
>I'm sure it already does. All of those companies selling information to the police are probably selling it to well-connected private entities as well. Or hell, the mercenaries may just own these tech companies outright: look at the devos family.

I think it's very likely that entities like drug cartels already pay for things like location data for DEA agent's cellphones.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by demosthenes14 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:56PM (#23249120)
What makes you think there are so few? Mercenaries are basically representing both America and Russia in Syria right now.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by loosetypes on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:58PM (#23249147)
You might find this entry on Swiss mercenaries interesting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries

It was new information to me but supports your idea.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by eloisius on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:00PM (#23249173)
I met a guy at NewSpace several years ago and we were talking about the role of the US military in space exploration. I was expressing my wariness of a militarized space force, the possibility of us ending up under a military junta, etc, but he was less worried. He kept making the point that mercenaries were the norm in the past and that the US military actually has an incredible record for never seizing control. He chalked it up to the fact that our military traditions and honor are deeply intertwined with civilian rule, and didn't think our soldiers would easily abandon that.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by jeffreyrogers on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:07PM (#23249237)
The US military has only been around for 250 years and look at how much the country has changed in that time. The idea of the welfare state would be totally incomprehensible to the founders[0]. I think the idea of the military as separate from the rest of the state is contingent on that state operating in the interests of the people. Or at least, not against the interests of the people. And history shows that no society has been able to do this forever.

[0]: I'm not saying we shouldn't have a welfare state, it's clearly necessary in the modern world, but the America of today is nothing like the America that was intended, for better or for worse.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by karatestomp on Thursday May 21, 2020 @12:50AM (#23254895)
> The US military has only been around for 250 years

And a permanent, standing, large, and fairly dysfunctional (look at descriptions of military leadership and its civilian oversight in WWII and earlier, then look at same in Vietnam, then look at the linked Afghanistan Papers documents in this thread re: same in Iraq and Afghanistan) US military is even newer, only 80ish years. Even more recent if you consider its modern form to have taken shape only after the Vietnam draft ended.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by NotSammyHagar on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:05PM (#23250511)
I see you weren't meaning to focus on welfare state by your edit. The US is different than revolutionary times in many ways, perhaps more significantly in women's rights, slavery, prisons, illegality of many actions.

I think the whole idea of the US being the world's most powerful country and acting outside our borders would have been something the founders would have struggled with, because they fought a war to get away from the world's most powerful country.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by alasdair_ on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:42PM (#23250277)
> the US military actually has an incredible record for never seizing control.

I wonder if the civil war counts here.

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by throwaway2048 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:39PM (#23250858)
The US military was very much opposed to the confederate succession, so much so that they refused to hand over union/federal property, which started the civil war to begin with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter

Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by eloisius on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @04:19PM (#23251282)
This is a good point. After the conclusion of the war, 10 former Confederate states were placed under military rule. However, I believe that happened under the command of civilian leaders. Whether or not they had legitimate authority to do so is a different debate, but I don't think it was the military acting of its own accord.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by pyuser583 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:08PM (#23249926)
In the past, mercenaries were paid with the spoils of war. Modern artillery makes that impossible - everything gets smashed to bits.
Re:U.S. arrests former Green Beret, son, in connection with ... by kilroy123 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @04:33PM (#23251433)
I personally know a merc, so they're more common than you think.