News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by JoeSmithson on Thursday May 14, 2020 @09:59AM (#23179575)
> Actual terrorists(like 9/11 type, well funded) know better than to even touch anything digital for comms

Shit like this is said all the time on HN with absolutely nothing to substantiate it.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by baron_harkonnen on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:10AM (#23179713)
I do stats for a living, and while I think it's good to back up claims with data when possible, inductive reasoning is still a validate tool for understanding the world.

The logic is that active, dedicated terrorist groups already know: "They literally get a drone strike for having called a known terrorist or for going to a wedding other terrorists with cell phones go to."

The reasoning that knowing this information you would be very careful about what you communicate over the internet is very sound to me. To convince me that this reasoning is incorrect would require an abundance of data to the contrary.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by remram on Thursday May 14, 2020 @11:58AM (#23181076)
You assume that every terrorist (or most terrorists) acts rationally and has the knowledge you know. That is a huge assumption for your reasoning to work.

I think terrorists make mistakes (or take risks), and I'm not convinced that we catch all of those either.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by pyronik19 on Thursday May 14, 2020 @12:22PM (#23181438)
In the context of droning terrorist, I think the anthropic principle applies. The ones who don't act rationally or have that knowledge are dead.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by remram on Thursday May 14, 2020 @07:07PM (#23186711)
Once again, that is just your opinion, presented as fact. Personally I would argue that people acting rationally stay away from the terrorism business.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by badrabbit on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:31AM (#23189190)
If you were in their shoes and america exterminated your family,how would you react? Killing civilians is evil and horrible but in their case they are being very rational.

Was the US being irrational with nuking of japan?

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by azinman2 on Thursday May 14, 2020 @03:32PM (#23184269)
You’re assuming a static world.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by kube-system on Thursday May 14, 2020 @12:50PM (#23181901)
If terrorists know not to touch digital comms, then how would they get caught by being at a wedding with other terrorists with cell phones? Do terrorists use cell phones or not?

The claim directly conflicts with the supporting anecdote.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by badrabbit on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:33AM (#23189206)
Both, they adopt. This isn't a video game you get to beat after figuring out the enemy, unlike games real life enemies adopt to your tactics.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by brandmeyer on Thursday May 14, 2020 @01:03PM (#23182111)
People can learn from their mistakes, and from the mistakes of others.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by zdragnar on Thursday May 14, 2020 @01:34PM (#23182605)
> inductive reasoning is still a validate tool for understanding the world.

And here it has led you astray. Terrorist organisations have propaganda mouthpieces, and use social media like any other. One of my previous jobs involved building network analysis tools to identify and locate terrorists combing through their Twitter feeds.

For some, you could easily identify the point in their lives when they were radicalized, and trace connections to others who were also, and identify the people they had in common.

Inductive reasoning opens room for questions, not answers, because it does not account for unknown information.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by badrabbit on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:00PM (#23188041)
You are talking about the past when they were radicalized,if this happened online then you are right but I thought it was clear that I meant internet usage for organizing and planning terrorism. Propaganda and radicalization is a dragnet, you will catch many but the one cell that recruits in person and communicates on paper only by code will succeed. It's not a volume game,it's a binary game.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by zdragnar on Friday May 15, 2020 @10:54AM (#23192884)
No single method of intelligence gathering will win a binary game, that is just moving goal posts.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by kingkawn on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:37AM (#23180064)
"inductive reasoning is still a validate tool for understanding the world."

Thank you so much for saying this.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by watwut on Thursday May 14, 2020 @12:24PM (#23181457)
Plenty of people are dumb. Including the ones who decide to join terrorist organization.

Actual terrorists were found because of using cell phones or internet.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by badrabbit on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:35AM (#23189218)
9/11 terrorists were well educated. Show me how absent flight security 9/11 can't happen again in 2020?
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by piffey on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:37AM (#23180071)
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs2191/f/Encrypt...

Yeah. The truth is that groups like ISIS use Telegram pretty heavily. Same with some of the Persian threat actor groups, Hezbollah, others.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by JoeSmithson on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:42AM (#23180118)
IS was/is a quasi nation state! What do these people think it runs off of carrier pigeons and smoke signals?
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by faitswulff on Thursday May 14, 2020 @11:22AM (#23180611)
The Boston marathon bombing was carried out through plain text messages if I recall correctly. They weren’t even encrypted and no one caught them.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by tadhgds on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:07AM (#23179681)
I'm not really sure why you think this needs substantiation.

The logic goes like this: It would be utterly stupid for terrorist groups to rely on digital communications simply because of how well locked down the various government agencies have made it. We assume that they are not utterly stupid.

I don't think it's a crazy statement or needing further justification. I doubt terrorist groups are that sophisticated but I would assume they have plugged the simplest holes.

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by JoeSmithson on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:37AM (#23180068)
It needs further justification because it's contradicted by the evidence cited to support it.

"Terrorists don't use digital communications[0]

[0] Example of a terrorist identified and killed via surveillance of their digital communications"

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by kabdib on Thursday May 14, 2020 @01:27PM (#23182489)
A little searching will reveal some of the opsec apparently used by Osama bin Laden. Use of couriers with thumb drives rather than risk electronic communications, and other things.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by Izkata on Thursday May 14, 2020 @01:32PM (#23182573)
I know one piece of evidence contrary to that - the time 4chan used youtube videos posted by terrorists to find one of their training camps.
Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by StreamBright on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:07AM (#23179682)
Do you know many terrorists who use digital communication to back your claim?

What the above is talking about well known, even privacy-aware people tend to not use digital communication that much, no facebook, or other social media, no smartphones. In the post-Snowden era, I am not sure why somebody thinks otherwise.

3 letter agencies have the means, the reason, the legitimacy, and the resources to penetrate every type of telecommunication, the worst-case just trojan the entire GSM infrastructure if necessary. The USA conducted thousands of drone strikes. What do you think drives locating the target?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-drone-strikes/

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by JoeSmithson on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:21AM (#23179855)
> Do you know many terrorists who use digital communication to back your claim?

Yes. In fact I don't know of a single terrorist who doesn't use digital communication of some kind.

I'm slightly confused because you seem to be justifying your belief that no terrorists use digital communication on the back of examples of terrorists identified and killed via surveillance of their digital communication use

Re:Patriot Act amendment needing a warrant for browsing hist... by Nasrudith on Thursday May 14, 2020 @11:14AM (#23180501)
I think the distinction isn't generally don't use it all - they are perfectly fine with recruiting and claiming responsibility with it. Instead it is in op sec. The San Bernadino shooters shot their personal phones beyond recovery and the FBI precedent fishing expedition was to theie work phones which they started with access to.