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Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by thewebcount on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:16PM (#23133750)
If your mother is a kind person whom you love, then by all means reach out and tell her.

To others like me who may have a gaslighting c* * * of a mother, don't be bullied by societal norms into feeling like a bad person just because you don't want to connect with an abuser. It's perfectly fine to not call your mother on mother's day if you don't have the kind of relationship that will benefit from it.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by fsloth on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:40PM (#23133972)
Yeah, the cultural presumption seems to be that if you don't call your mother you are a callous bastard who does not care about the person who brought you into this world and nurtured you.

The sad fact is that since that relationship is so special, the callous negligence and other pathologies parted by the mother into the relationship are so many times more destructive.

And this is not about the stereotypical sitcom mom who is overbearing or judgemental.

Think about substance abuse, suicide attempts and the like.

Nothing gives you a jolt like finding your mom in her bed OD's with sleeping pills and plastic bags wrapped under her bottom not to soil the sheets. Even though if the mom survives something will be irreparably broken inside the child.

Don't push people about their relationships to their parents. There are lots of sad, sad stories there.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by exolymph on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:22PM (#23134287)
> Yeah, the cultural presumption seems to be that if you don't call your mother you are a callous bastard who does not care about the person who brought you into this world and nurtured you.

I don't think this is true. The cultural presumption is that you love your mom and that she was basically a pretty good mom. In that assumed case, not calling makes you a callous bastard. And of course there are people who will badger you to reconcile with estranged parents, but are they the majority? Most people understand that abusive or otherwise shitty parents exist, they just (correctly) assume that it's not the default.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by dvtrn on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:49PM (#23134507)
Herein lies the basic problem with assuming.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by exolymph on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:08PM (#23134658)
Are you arguing that generalizations shouldn't exist, or... ?
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by dvtrn on Sunday May 10, 2020 @03:01PM (#23135110)
No. I’m not arguing anything. I’m cautioning the making of assumptions-even (maybe: ‘especially’?) in the face of cultural normatives.

Edit: Expanding some, since brevity gives too much room for ambiguity: cultural norms for some can be a point of pain for others because of forces we as observers to the experiences of others may never have to contend with; assumptions in the face of these norms can sometimes box a person into the same feelings of anxiety and distress because of said norms and how they have affected such individual in ways unique to them that we could be completely blind to. Familial relations are sometimes an especially sore area in this specific regard.

It’s was a cautionary remark, not an assertive one. Looking back on the post, maybe I should have said “Herein lies the basic problem with assuming of such intimate matters”.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by burgerzzz on Sunday May 10, 2020 @08:24PM (#23137613)
This is an argument. How is it not? But I'm not sure what you're arguing for or even against at this point.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by dvtrn on Sunday May 10, 2020 @11:30PM (#23138653)
I articulated myself as clearly, intentionally and directly as I could on the topic. Not sure how else I can put it. Sorry.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by DavidSJ on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:44PM (#23134943)
The other option is that shitty and abusive parents are the default.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by smitty1e on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:23PM (#23134300)
And the heart goes out to those bearers of hard stories.

May healing find them.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by lonelappde on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:43PM (#23134938)
I don't see why being addicted or suicidal makes someone unworthy of love.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by fsloth on Sunday May 10, 2020 @05:20PM (#23136318)
That's something you would say in a sermon to a crowd.

Not to an addict and certainly not to their loved ones. See, you are on the one hand saying the addict is fine doing whatever it is they are, and on the other hand you are shaming the loved ones of the addict into a position of never giving up on him/her.

All of that will just make things worse for all parties. You see, the addict, after a point, does not really want love anymore. They want the substance. They may use love as a tool to live and continue their addiction but they are not in a condition to provide a reciprocal relationship. They have become, in a way, narsistic in the sense that other people are above all enabling agents to get their high, and beyond this utility are worthless to them.

So you see how just being ready to love another through whatever is not actually a great plan when heavy addiction steps into play?

First rule of all human relationships: You are not responsible for another person - their happiness, their addiction or what ever.

Some relationships can be actively harmful. Especially with addictive substances the other party gets easily damaged through co-dependency.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by harisund on Monday May 11, 2020 @09:16AM (#23141736)
The problem is you assuming love is a reciprocal relationship. If you don't want to love someone, fine, by all means don't. But please don't go about preaching addicts don't need love
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by fsloth on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @01:06AM (#23150746)
The core of my thesis is - and most professionals likely will agree with me on this - you should not waste your life away because of an addict. Both of you have only one life. If the addict is on a path to waste theirs, do not throw two lives away.

I understand why you would find this callous. On the other hand, knowing far too well what I'm talking about, I find your approach potentially very harmful.

It sounds like you think I'm coming to this from a moral or religious high ground. I'm not. I have far better understanding of relationship dynamics with an addict than I would ever want.

"But please don't go about preaching addicts don't need love"

Of course not, that would be de-humanizing. But similarly no single person should feel obligated to love an addict.

Let me explain where I'm coming from. My mom was a heavy drinker and that affected all aspects of her life for decades. My father spent most of his good years living with her, but after my mother died, I realized staying with my mom had been a mistake from his part.

His mood brightened remarkably and he found a new person to share his life with. Sadly, he died in a few years as well.

Had he not spent his life with my mom I'm fairly sure he would have been a lot happier. I mean, sure, it's a roll of the die but surely staying with my mom was close to snake-eyes in terms of what sort of relationship you can end in.

Especially in the later years my moms behaviour changed and she turned partly a different person.

You love who you choose to love. But you are not obliged to love anybody and most certainly you are not responsible for anyone elses happiness.

Nobody should feel obligated to show love to anyone else except your child, and should be ok to take distance and gauge their options - especially with an addict.

Addicts can recover, and sometimes cannot.

You can't force an addict to recover. And more importantly, you can't heal an addict. The addict needs to take the responsibility for their own condition.

Taking distance can be part of the addicts journey to a non-addicted way of living. But you can't push nor pull them.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by TrinaryWorksToo on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:35PM (#23134392)
Perhaps "call the person who has been the best mother to you"
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by toomuchtodo on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:59PM (#23134583)
I like this comment very much. I don’t have such a person, but if you do, call that person. Embrace those whom treat you with respect, care, and compassion.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by stonecharioteer on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:13PM (#23134689)
I'm a dude in my 30s but if you ever want hot soup when backpacking through southern India, come over. I'm @stonecharioteer everywhere. Mom will make you a bowl and ask you to comb your hair for the full experience.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by toomuchtodo on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @07:46PM (#23161542)
Thank you, I will bring an appropriate gift to show my appreciation.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by voisin on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:54PM (#23134078)
FWIW, I think your life would be vastly improved if you can turn the anger evident in your post into sadness for whatever caused her to act like that in the first place. It’s worked for me. Pity feels like a healthier emotion to experience than anger or bitterness.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by waterbadger on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:12PM (#23134214)
I’m sure you are trying to be helpful so I’m not trying to criticize you personally or devalue what you are sharing! More of a general gripe for me:

Anger and sadness are both very helpful, understandable and ok emotions. There is nothing wrong or dysfunctional about either of those feelings.

I think the cultural norm that certain emotions are “bad” and that we can “change” our emotions is extremely destructive for many people.

We can control (and our responsible for) our thoughts and actions.

I don’t think people can actually control their emotions however and making people feel ashamed or unhealthy because of their emotional reactions is unfair. This is actually one of the symptoms of abusive parent-child relationships that I think many people have unavoidably internalized.

A lot of people have experienced serious emotional trauma due to cultural norms and an unhealthy value system about how parents treat their children (as well as by being parented by traumatized people who have grown up in similar circumstances)

There are a lot of good books about it if you search for Complex PTSD. One that I think covers a lot of information holistically is “Healing Developmental Trauma” by Laurence Heller and Aline LaPierre

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by M5x7wI3CmbEem10 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:48PM (#23136024)
thank you for the recommendations.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by Woberto on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:39PM (#23134425)
I see people downvoting so I just wanted to say, as a person with anger towards my dad, this makes some sense to me. He was a terrible father, and surely a large part of that is due to something like poor mental health from a rough upbringing. It really sucks that my siblings and I suffered from it, but I can also sympathize with what he went through.

It's still really tough to know where to go from here. I feel like I've learned from his mistakes, but is the same true for him? Why hasn't he tried to change, is it the society/culture he grew up in? How much is his fault? Still figuring out how to deal with these questions. But I can be angry, and have pity too.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by searchableguy on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:54PM (#23136075)
I was in the same position. Asking the same questions. Is it his fault? It's probably not. Whatever he did has stopped me from seeing him as a parent. I think of my parents as team members I can't fire yet. They might be lazy, unskilled, or unwilling to change. But attacking them won't solve any problems. What you need to do is get into their head. Act, think, and see the same way they do. What would I want others to do that will get me motivated to change?

I give them targetted praise whenever they do something I want. Give treats for wrong decisions but drilling what they did was wrong. Make them feel important and special. Let them feel guilty for not being able to live up to the expectations you build around them. Let them see the perfect human you see them as. Use metrics and numbers that are easy to parse, use social signaling. Instead of giving your opinion about something, point towards someone they might be interested to hear about or care to change them.

Say you love them the way they are but point towards changing societal expectations.

Again, you aren't the bad guy who wants them to change. It's the society or someone else. It is easier to get through the head.

Push them into groups with opposite view to them. People behave differently under group pressure compared to when you are talking to them one on one.

Whenever they come across material that re-enforces their existing belief, try to distract them. Change their environment. Offer to clean their room and remove harmful material. Change places that remind them of their previously held beliefs.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by blueberry_47 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:47PM (#23134485)
If your old man did you wrong Well maybe his old man did him wrong -mewithoutyou, Allah Allah Allah
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by marnett on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:43PM (#23134942)
Never thought I’d see a mewithoutyou lyric on HN. This community never ceases to surprise me! (:

The Fox, the Crow and the Cookie is still one of my favorite songs.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by vga805 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:59PM (#23134117)
Or maybe they've learned to channel that anger in some positive way.

Not everything that works for oneself will "vastly improve" the lives of others.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by Igelau on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:59PM (#23134115)
Didn't seem angry or bitter. Just honest.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by 101011 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:11PM (#23134202)
Calling someone a "gaslighting c*" didn't seem angry to you?
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by jshevek on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:29PM (#23134349)
Not necessarily. Gaslighting can simply be descriptive, and different subcultures associate different emotions and intensity with c*, particularly outside of the US. (But also inside the US.). For example, it can convey dismissiveness, not anger.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by dvtrn on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:55PM (#23134558)
Akin to how “bless your heart” can (operative word: can) take on two VERY different meanings depending on what part of the US it’s being uttered in.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by spike021 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:39PM (#23134908)
I realize not everyone will agree, but I like to think of this as more of a symbolic thing; it doesn't need to be a biological, adoptive, step, foster mother, it can just be someone who you've really just appreciate as being warm and supportive over the years.

Sorry to hear that you've had that kind of experience!

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by diob on Sunday May 10, 2020 @07:24PM (#23137267)
Very much agree. I severed ties with my "parents" back in December after realizing I'm old enough and successful enough that I don't have to put up with their narcissism and abuse anymore. It's nice to not have to pretend anymore.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by yoav on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:24PM (#23133821)
100%, thank you for voicing this.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by op00to on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:25PM (#23133827)
Mine died a few years ago and my life is better for it.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by chrisseaton on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:26PM (#23133845)
> It's especially important to call important people in your life today

Right - boggles my mind that people think they should be telling anyone to call anyone on a site like this.

(Not a comment on my mother - just the idea that everyone has the same relationships as you do and should do things the way you do them.)

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by rubber_duck on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:32PM (#23133895)
>boggles my mind that people think they should be telling anyone to call anyone on a site like this.

It's a nice reminder, don't see the OP post as "reconnect with your abusive parent" more like "today might be a good day to call your mother"

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by chrisseaton on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:37PM (#23133941)
Maybe I'm sensitive, but it comes across as judgemental. 'Call mom' - I can almost feel the condescending do-gooder smile from here.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by wurst_case on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:51PM (#23134062)
I have one of those hurtful abusive mothers and I can see that OP was just being nice, repaying a kindness he felt 6yrs ago like he said. You are being sensitive of you can't see that.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by binaryblitz on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:19PM (#23134267)
Totally see where you're coming from, but I do think it's a nice reminder during quarantine. Time is passing so weirdly now, it's hard for me to keep track of what month we're in, let alone the date.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by larrywright on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:54PM (#23134082)
To me, it’s just recognition that the type of people who frequent this site aren’t always good at remembering this sort of thing. It doesn’t apply to everyone, but I’m sure there are people who saw this and appreciated it.
Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by jshevek on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:25PM (#23134318)
>"today might be a good day to call your mother"

The OP doesn't qualify their premise with 'might'. ('May' only applied to video chat, specifically). The title is imperative, and there is a general claim of importance.

I'm not bothered personally, I just agree with chriseatons assessment of the tone.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by meddlepal on Sunday May 10, 2020 @01:45PM (#23134469)
The pedantry on this site sometimes is insufferable.

It's a little reminder for the oblivious and workaholics among us. Nobody is suggesting anyone call their mom if they hate her guts.

Re:Tell HN: Call Mom by jshevek on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:04PM (#23134621)
In this case, looking at the actual words can help one to understand why other people interpreted the statement differently than they did.