News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by danso on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:38AM (#23015424)
So this worked for me, but I hadn't tried since a couple weeks ago (maybe the all-caps thing was fixed by yesterday?). What's funny is that the subsequent step (verifying tax info) had a couple of other old-school slightly bad practices:

- Blocking copy-paste of my bank account information

- Input value for income can't contain commas or a dollar sign

- Obscuring input field of SSN as if it were a password (I suppose this might not seem wrong to some folks, but technically SSN isn't a password and most other sites I've used don't treat it like a password)

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by robomartin on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:00AM (#23015554)
An old college friend of mine from 30+ years ago used to write his SSN on every college book he bought. He also used an engraver to etch his SSN into every tool he owned. The SSN was't all that important back then. I can't say when it became something of potential value.

Sadly he passes many years ago. His wife called me in desperation. She needed to get rid of and donate a bunch of tools and hardware filling their garage. However, everything had his SSN on it, I mean, he had an amazing collection of Snap-on tools with his SSN engraved on everything, down to the screwdrivers.

She trust me implicitly. We took everything out of their garage and donated it to our local high school's robotics club. The caveat was: The kids had to help me grind off the SSN from every single tool they got. That was an interesting week.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:38AM (#23018346)
You wasted a week. :)

SSN for deceased people is published broadly in various forms.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by robomartin on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:37PM (#23023963)
Well, I had to honor a widow’s request.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by contravariant on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:12AM (#23018176)
Maybe this is a silly question, but exactly what was the risk? If knowing a random SSN is problematic then it's not exactly hard to just generate a couple yourself.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by gt_grc on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:26AM (#23018823)
I used to work for a credit bureau, and a lender once asked us to build an application that could pull credit files based on SSN only. (Pulling a credit file normally requires multiple identifiers.) Fortunately, someone foresaw the very problem that you mentioned, and we declined to build it.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by nhumrich on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:09AM (#23015595)
> cant say when it became something of value As soon as banks started allowing SSNs themselves instead of requiring an SSN card for establishing lines of credit.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by nikanj on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:49AM (#23015819)
One day I will find the security consultant who keeps going around companies and telling them that letting me paste content is insecure. On many platforms I use a password like "Fart123!!" because I can't paste "$3f4[FEsz$%643we]]SFv" from my password manager.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by RonanTheGrey on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @02:29AM (#23016066)
Firefox's "Don't Fuck with Paste" extension is a lifesaver. It disables all the event handlers on the page and the input that prevent pasting. Kind of a sledgehammer but when you're pasting someone's 26-digit account number, I mean.. you don't want to copy that by hand.

Plus I use Bitwarden, which auto-fills the boxes so I don't need to paste passwords at least.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by lstamour on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @03:27AM (#23016399)
I wish I could say this 2014 article was completely out of date, but while some folks have updated, far too many sites still haven’t: https://www.troyhunt.com/the-cobra-effect-that-is-disabling/

If you’re writing a little JS snippet to “fix” this, https://gist.github.com/nuxero/6dda1287ccfb91999e9f8c42d7246... or https://gist.github.com/SukkaW/26dc57f3bf3d7f17a89763dcd9f7d... might also help.

It should be possible to add this to iOS using the Shortcuts app. https://support.apple.com/en-us/guide/shortcuts/apd218e2187d... Though... I’m not entirely sure you can block pasting in Safari on iOS. I can’t say I’ve noticed it there, perhaps the native keyboard password manager integration avoids it.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by aspenmayer on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:50AM (#23019146)
I recently had a broken phone screen and had to find a password entry workaround. On iOS pasting in fields that show the iOS keyboard seems to always be enabled, but rotation of the keyboard in landscape mode is disabled on some password entry fields for some reason. A quick workaround is the notes app for a quick copy paste and the calculator app for numbers if needed, although I wish there was a way to toggle comma separation in the iOS calculator.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by Merad on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:27AM (#23018254)
You don't need an extension for this, you can go into about:config and flip dom.event.clipboardevents.enabled to false.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by snazz on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:04AM (#23018603)
Doesn't that disable other clipboard events, though? There are quite a few other sites that I want to be able to use copy/paste events correctly.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by jjeaff on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:27AM (#23020372)
Ya, anytime a site uses a contenteditable element, they usually need to listen for paste content and do things like stripping html tags and whatnot. Basically any wysywig style editor like a Facebook post.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by nfriedly on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:50AM (#23020630)
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by greendestiny_re on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @03:34PM (#23023206)
Please don't ever post your passwords, even in jest. The web is filled with crawlers that scrape passwords and add them to vast password dictionaries to be used in cracking.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by twic on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:01AM (#23018105)
You can fire up developer tools and paste into the value attribute. This will work on an old-school form, but i have no idea what it will do to client-side JavaScript!
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by Traubenfuchs on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:08AM (#23018636)
You can paste in the value and then change the value to something wrong and to the right thing back again. This will make sure that the required events will fire.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by renaudg on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:43AM (#23019027)
Here's another input filtering bad practice that most US front-end devs don't seem to know about (but really should when they build global websites)

Don't assume a specific keyboard layout when you're trying to filter out non-numeric values in a text field

I use a French keyboard, and numbers on the top keyboard row are accessed with Shift. A unmodified keypress in this row is for various accented characters, quotes, parentheses and a few others. In other words, it's the opposite of a US/UK keyboard.

Almost every week I come across a website (including a large US stock broker) whose numeric fields seem to block out modifier keys. I have to switch my Macbook to US layout just to type those in (because conveniently, they also disable pasting in those fields of course)

This is very widespread (is that part of a popular front-end framework maybe ?) and difficult to report, because most devs in English-speaking countries never experience the issue first-hand.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by earthboundkid on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:08AM (#23019393)
I didn't know that about the French keyboard. The Japanese keyboard is mostly a mess because they have to shove a bunch of extra characters into the same physical space, but the one thing I miss is that they have @ as an unshifted character. It's very convenient for that. I'd gladly trade away unshifted ` for unshifted @.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by renaudg on Thursday April 30, 2020 @01:43PM (#23033656)
@ is also unshifted on the French keyboard.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by dak1 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:37AM (#23018939)
Every time I encounter a site that disables pasting something, I just disable JavaScript, paste it, and then re-enable. Obviously not a solution for non-technical users, though.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by codegeek on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:52AM (#23018484)
In fall of 2000 when I started college, we used to have SSN numbers publicly listed as student ids :). I never thought much of it back then. Good old days when you didn't have to worry about being identity hacked.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by Traubenfuchs on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:12AM (#23018669)
What's with Americans getting a magic number that can apparently ruin their lives?

What harmful thing can an attacker do with it that doesn't require further identity verification?

Is this an urban legend?

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by earthboundkid on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:17AM (#23019519)
In America, it is very easy for corporations to put the blame for their bad security practices onto consumers and for consumers to just shrug and accept the blame.

So, for example, "I" had "my identity" "stolen" according to Verizon.

In reality, some criminals learned facts about me and then Verizon happily let them run up thousands of dollars in phone charges in a two month period. (I assume this is part of a larger scam where a 900 number pockets the charges?) This had nothing to do with me, but Verizon then polluted my credit history by falsely reporting the unpaid charges as being mine. So even though there were clearly two parties at fault—the criminals for the fraud and Verizon for not verifying the ID of the person getting the phone line and then falsely harming my credit reputation—I, an uninvolved third party, was made to do the legwork of cleaning up the mess. It's really scandalous that we allow this, but the PR of "identity theft" has been quite good at brainwashing the public.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by linuxftw on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:11AM (#23019436)
It's an artifact of the unregulated credit system. Credit reporting agencies starting using SSN as an identifier for consumers, thus it gets pasted everywhere. Back before the financial crisis, there was little to no oversight. If someone got your SSN and some basic info, they could open up credit accounts in your name very easily. Most upstanding places like Banks would require some form of ID. But what about the cashier at K-Mart when you were filling out an in-store credit application? They were much less caring. Same with used car dealers, and tons of other places.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:16AM (#23018722)
Basically, many institutions have horrifically poor standards for verification and will accept nothing (or not much) more than an SSN. SSNs were never meant to be a secret.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by remcob on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:40AM (#23019801)
This video does a great job explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus

The summary is that the USA does not have an official national person identity number. The SSN is the closest approximation, so it is being (ab)used as one. This is despite that it is explicitly not designed for it and has some qualities which make it less suitable (the numbers are small and very predictable).

In general, nearly every national-identity-system suffers from a contradiction between assigning identities and identifying. Where the number you get assigned is simultaneously your identity and a secret you use to establish your identity. There are initiatives to solve this using cryptography, but this is complicated by political attitudes towards privacy and government tracking. I dare say in the USA this is more pronounced due to both the problem and the political attitude against solutions being more pronounced.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by teddyh on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:04PM (#23020784)
I thought that link would be to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E but it wasn’t, so there it is. But your link is good too.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by greybeardgeek on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:01AM (#23019304)
When I worked in Oak Ridge in the 70s and 80s we had our SSNs stenciled on the back of our lab coats.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by stallmanite on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:50AM (#23019929)
What was the purpose of using your SSNs as ID rather than names? Very interesting I didn’t realize scientists wore uniforms with names/ids across the back like baseball or hockey players.
Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by smacktoward on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:41AM (#23020522)
Names aren't necessarily unique. It's not hard to imagine a large enough organization having multiple John Smiths on staff, for instance.

As personnel management became more sophisticated and formalized, a unique identifier was needed that was guaranteed to refer to one and only one person. And since SSNs already existed and were guaranteed unique, most of them just used those rather than inventing a unique identifier of their own.

Re:Having trouble with the IRS site? Try all caps by joecool1029 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:56AM (#23020697)
> And since SSNs already existed and were guaranteed unique,

Yeah.... about that: https://www.cio.com/article/3004596/a-tale-of-two-women-same...