News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:textfiles.com by londons_explore on Monday April 27, 2020 @08:53AM (#22995326)
Has the community of people who wrote documents like this just dried up and vanished? Or have they all moved somewhere underground I can't find?
Re:textfiles.com by gonzo41 on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:03AM (#22995416)
They grew up. And the internet of books became the internet of videos. They're out there writing technical manuals, exising in middle age and earning money.

Back in those days a place like textiles would be an aggregator on a fairly small internet. Most of those content types can be found with their own larger more focused niche sites.

Re:textfiles.com by the_af on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:15AM (#22995494)
You can't get more focused than textfiles. This is an online museum about a specific aspect of internet lore and history. Jason Scott is an archivist/historian.
Re:textfiles.com by cecja on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:13AM (#22995475)
Is it growing up? For me it’s more that everyone reads books like „How to brand yourself on the internet“ that’s why there is no personality left... the same goes for quirky software there is not much coming because everyone writes a sideproject notetaking electron app because it’s something everyone wants and can relate too. The problem with the modern web is not growing up it is the loss of personality.
Re:textfiles.com by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:19PM (#22997809)
> loss of personality

Like ahlzeimers? It doesn't make sense that the graphics heavy world would have less personality than the constrained world of text.

Re:textfiles.com by myth_drannon on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:56AM (#22995843)
The one's from 80's and 90's just grew up and dot-com era really gave more opportunities for the creative programmers. Younger people will never write on many of the topics in these files because it will land you in jail FAST. It used to be more anonymity back then. Phreaking, warez scenes were alive and well. Heck, even demoscence is not the same anymore. Anyways if you are into coding/hacking, working for a startup is where to channel your creative energy.
Re:textfiles.com by zozbot234 on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:16AM (#22996015)
There was also a lot of motivation to phreak and trade warez due to a lack of things we'd simply take for granted nowadays, such as always-on connectivity and a widespread free-software and free-culture scene.

It's a lot harder to explain the whole "anarchy" obsession that shows up in the files, though. Maybe that kind of loser attitude would make you "cool" and "a tough guy" back in the 1980s and the 1990s. Or at least that's what the file authors thought.

Re:textfiles.com by na85 on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:53PM (#22997562)
You're looking back at those anarchist leanings through two decades' worth of post-9/11 pro-nanny-state propaganda. And in some cases those writings predate the fall of the Soviet Union.

The world was a different place back then. I was 7 in August of 91, too young to remember or have experienced much of the world but I do remember the culture of pre-9/11 internet being starkly different from that of today.

Re:textfiles.com by zozbot234 on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:58PM (#22997607)
> And in some cases those writings predate the fall of the Soviet Union.

That would explain some things, then. Indeed, those writings have a lot more in common with the pre-Soviet "nihilist" movement than anything relating to anarchism as it would be understood today.

Re:textfiles.com by TedDoesntTalk on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:02AM (#22996477)
I wrote some of those anarchist files in the 80s, but most of them came from The Anarchist’s Cookbook. Look it up, you can still buy used copies.

That attitude was indeed cool and definitely not loser back then. It was “anti-The-Man”, much like the Anonymous movement whenever that was... 10 years ago?

Re:textfiles.com by pbhjpbhj on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:28PM (#22997319)
Worth noting people (at least one convicted under a recent government) in the UK have been imprisoned for having a copy.
Re:textfiles.com by jstarfish on Monday April 27, 2020 @02:13PM (#22998352)
> It's a lot harder to explain the whole "anarchy" obsession that shows up in the files, though. Maybe that kind of loser attitude would make you "cool" and "a tough guy" back in the 1980s and the 1990s.

It's a sign of the times. The mid-to-late 1980s saw a very conservative shift in politics that continued into the 90s-00s.

Once the whole "anarchy" thing started manifesting in real ways (numerous domestic shootings/bombings) by the mid-90s it was pretty dangerous to be associated with.

Re:textfiles.com by the137 on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:10PM (#22997721)
The early internet was literally anarchy, that was one of the things that made it such a great place.

The new web is commercial, monitored, controlled.

Re:textfiles.com by AnthonyMouse on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:13PM (#22997755)
Minority ideologies always get painted as their villains by the majority who wants them to go away. Communism is bad because Stalin is bad. Anarchy is bad because the unibomber is bad.

There is a version of communism that says that people should live in a local community that helps people who need it. As long as someone who doesn't want to live that way has the reasonable option to leave, this is actually pretty hard to object to.

There is a version of anarchy that says that all laws and taxes should be at the local level and furthermore that some localities might then choose not to have any, or only the most basic ones like a prohibition on violence. It's almost the same thing -- pretty hard to object to when people have the option to exit.

What they have in common is that they can't exist when you have a central government de facto prohibiting them. There might be some real efficiencies in a commune that has its own doctors, but that doesn't really work if everybody there still has to pay twice the cost of their own community's doctors in Medicare taxes. You can't have much of an anarchist collective if the feds are still arresting anybody who tries to sell pot brownies or break DRM so they can repair their own tractor.

So people have been looking for ways to shed the yoke of central power for a long time. The US was practically founded on it, both in terms of why the revolution was fought and how the constitution was laid out, but the forces of centralization have been hacking away at those foundations and doing what they can to destroy the "laboratories of democracy" of Brandeis for a long time now.

Is it really that surprising that people were excited about a then-emerging opportunity to potentially take some of it back?

Re:textfiles.com by 2008guy on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:39PM (#23000415)
The unibomber has nothing to do with anarchy...
Re:textfiles.com by AnthonyMouse on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:19PM (#23001341)
The unibomber was an anarchist, therefore anarchists are bad, you don't see how that works? It's like how environmentalism is bad because of eco-terrorism and encryption is bad because Mark Zuckerberg is a jerk who has too much money and all Muslims are bad because of 9/11.
Re:textfiles.com by tripzilch on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:11AM (#23006215)
> Heck, even demoscence is not the same anymore.

Can you expand on this? I used to be active in the demoscene 2 decades ago, but haven't really kept up lately, how have they changed?

Re:textfiles.com by myth_drannon on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:08AM (#23018630)
80's and 90's it was mainly about pushing the limits of hardware (and some art). Now the demos don't look as innovative comparing to games, VFX. I think only C64 and some other artificially limited platforms still are doing very interesting stuff but it's very little of it.
Re:textfiles.com by tripzilch on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:57AM (#23020030)
When I was active in the scene 20 years ago, this was exactly what people were saying, though. :)
Re:textfiles.com by caseyw on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:00AM (#22995384)
I was just talking to a friend about this. It seems like the old web is vanishing. I miss the random, often times horribly designed custom pages people used to setup. I hope we’re looking in the wrong place.
Re:textfiles.com by boomlinde on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:26AM (#22996110)
It's there but I think it kind of gets lost as people lost interest in ad-hoc curation. If we arrive at a page today it's normally because some large entity with a commercial incentive brought us there via a search engine or a social network. Meanwhile, people no longer really host link pages or curate webrings.

It feels like a bait and switch to me because search used to yield more interesting results, and social networks did relatively little to get you to buy something, but as their precision in achieving their commercial goals have increased that is no longer true.

Re:textfiles.com by zozbot234 on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:03AM (#22996488)
Search used to rely on formalized 'ad-hoc' curation in the form of DMOZ and other web directories. Without it, SEO has become the main influence on results and search-engines are now heavily focusing on novelty and recency in the hope of turning up something that the user was actually looking for. Of course 'novelty' is the polar opposite of something like textfiles, or of many well-established online resources.
Re:textfiles.com by londons_explore on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:44AM (#22996924)
While links have in the past been used to rank webpages, it isn't strictly necessary. You could have billions of documents and still figure out which one answers a question simply with a good ML model looking at the text of the documents alone.
Re:textfiles.com by annihilatormod on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:59PM (#22998226)
I really enjoy sites that have extremely long linkrolls on them, but they tend to always be static linkrolls of the homepages of sites or blogs rather than pointing at specific high quality posts or areas of those sites. Sites that have a 'cool links I was looking at last month'-esque Link section are very interesting though. Alexey Guzey's site[0] is a good example of this kind of thing.

[0]https://guzey.com/links/2019/4/

Re:textfiles.com by TedDoesntTalk on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:05AM (#22996502)
Re:textfiles.com by anthk on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:00AM (#22995877)
CHeck Neocities.
Re:textfiles.com by Exmoor on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:37AM (#22996827)
It feels like that, but I think the world has just become more complicated and the signal/noise ratio is different and the publishing avenues and methods are much more dispersed. Back in the BBS/Usenet days if you wanted to write a FAQ or doc on a specific topic you typically did it in one of the very few places (text file, FidoNet, usenet). Now you can create a video on Youtube, post on a major social network (Facebook group, subreddit, topic-specific forum, etc.), create your own webpage, etc.

As someone who grew up in the BBS era I am often nostalgic for it because everything felt a lot easier to grasp and much more simple, but in truth the amount of information out there and easy to access is many orders of magnitude higher these days.

Re:textfiles.com by every on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:39AM (#22995683)
You should poke around in gopher. Has a very dial-up BBS feel, complete with FIGlets. Here is a nice web proxy:

https://gopher.commons.host/

Re:textfiles.com by pmoriarty on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:03AM (#22996487)
For some more nostalgia, check out:

  http://telehack.com/
"Telehack is a simulation of a stylized arpanet/usenet, circa 1985-1990. It is a full multi-user simulation, including 25,000 hosts and BBS's from the early net, thousands of files from the era, a collection of adventure and IF games, a working BASIC interpreter with a library of programs to run, simulated historical users, and more.*

"You can telnet directly to Telehack on the regular telnet port of 23.

"Open a command shell and type

telnet telehack.com

"See http://telehack.com/telehack.html for more information."

Re:textfiles.com by anthk on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:31PM (#22997349)
Funny, yesterday I was there, I was curious about playing Vicious Cycles over telnet and some BSD 4.3 machine under Simh (yes, I have it under OpenBSD and Frotz too, but I was just having fun :) ).
Re:textfiles.com by mark_l_watson on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:08AM (#22995942)
In the 1980s we had fantastic Internet connectivity and bandwidth at SAIC but most stuff was on FTP sites. I spent at least an hour a week curating lists of FTP sites and directory listings of them. I was sort-of a human search engine and would help people find useful stuff. Then the text-based www happened, then Mozilla happened, and things exponentially got more awesome. We had a smart young guy, Greg Hannah, who set up web servers for us on just about day zero of the web.
Re:textfiles.com by Jaruzel on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:53AM (#22995814)
Floodgap is the de-facto home of Gopher: https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/

If you are on Windows, I have written a nice modern gopher client: http://www.jaruzel.com/gopher/gopher-client-browser-for-wind...

Re:textfiles.com by anthk on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:30PM (#22997342)
I prefer gopher://magical.fish
Re:textfiles.com by Jaruzel on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @08:00AM (#23018099)
Ooh nice site - it's not been around that long either.

That said, Cameron Kaiser has done so much to promote gopher, I don't feel it's fair to redirect people away from his site though.

Re:textfiles.com by anthk on Friday May 01, 2020 @01:35PM (#23044504)
Every Gopher hole is good, but magical.fish is a great showoff as an intro :D.
Re:textfiles.com by eddieh on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:06PM (#22997124)
Very cool, but the screenshots are really small.
Re:textfiles.com by Jaruzel on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @07:58AM (#23018078)
Yeah - I did have larger, but they um, got lost. I keep meaning to do new ones.
Re:textfiles.com by paultopia on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:05PM (#23002575)
Gopher was how I first got on the internet! Oh memories!

Poking through the posted site... I still remember when I discovered this[1] circa 1993-ish. It was the funniest thing ever back then.

http://www.textfiles.com/humor/final-ex.txt

Re:textfiles.com by floatingatoll on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:13AM (#22995984)
DejaNews (bought by Google and reskinned as Google Groups) showed up in the 90s and made everyone realize that everything we wrote would be searchable forever. Trumpet Winsock scripts made it possible to offer Internet access and BBSes faded out. Gopher was powered by indexed textfiles, but hosting on the Internet was very traceable back then, and often at a university where tolerances for anarchism were low. Geocities picked up the “post text files” banner for a while but eventually collapsed as blogs and web forums took up the writing output of most.
Re:textfiles.com by tripzilch on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:07AM (#23006197)
Well, first they moved from BBSes (and Usenet, I guess) to personal websites, then internet forums and the blogosphere.

Somewhere along the road the medium changed partly from text to video, this was initially surprising to me, but on the whole isn't particularly important.

Then Reddit ate the forums, and I'm not sure what happened to the blogs, but they don't feel the same either.

So they got spread out, got sold out, and overshadowed by louder people doing the same except with ads and for money.

I totally skipped over some bits of Internet history, but the point is, it used to be more open. Maybe harder to use and smaller. But it wasn't all being funded by gigantic ad corporations. Because the platforms they provide may technically seem capable of providing the same ground as for textfiles, they're also continuously pushing on their users to behave in certain ways to optimize advertising profits. And that kind of sucks the life out of everything, it seems.

Re:textfiles.com by petercooper on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:05AM (#22996510)
So I started and maintained a text BASIC programming fanzine back in 1994-1996 and.. I'm still in the business producing weekly newsletters for programmers 25 years later, except now it's my job! :-)
Re:textfiles.com by wafn on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:15PM (#22997775)
Are you Pete of Pete's QB Site?
Re:textfiles.com by petercooper on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:12PM (#22999510)
Afraid not, though some of my work is/was hosted there! :) It's been a while though..
Re:textfiles.com by ksaj on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:31AM (#22995640)
A fair amount of my old stuff if there on the site. I was surprised to see it all again. Anyway, it shouldn't be a surprise that since then, my life has been in and around InfoSec pretty much exclusively.
Re:textfiles.com by CalRobert on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:00AM (#22995381)
Sheer speculation, but I suspect some of them grew out of it over time and the communities fell below critical mass, and the conditions for new entrants to replace them weren't there. It was very much a product of the BBS world, and I have a hard time imagining stuff like this gaining traction now.
Re:textfiles.com by EvanAnderson on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:26AM (#22996101)
There's some stuff I wrote on there. I really should send Jason some of the 1993-95 stuff that saw limited release on only a couple of BBS's. Things were strange right there at the sunset of the BBS era...
Re:textfiles.com by icedchai on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:19AM (#22995543)
I used to write many text files in my youth. I also had many for download on my BBS.

Some of the larger zines (like Phrack) still exist, but only release new ones every few years. Back in the day (90's) it was every month!

Re:textfiles.com by jabroni_salad on Monday April 27, 2020 @02:39PM (#22998616)
If we're just talking people writing articles for an audience and not a discussion board, I would say a lot of that has moved over to Youtube. Video essays are incredibly popular right now.

On the discussions side of things, there are actually decent independent forums still hanging around. They are usually hobby-oriented or for cars (shoutout to any fitfreaks) but they are pretty good quality.

Re:textfiles.com by cowmix on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:21AM (#22996063)
We're right here. :)
Re:textfiles.com by kragen on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:54PM (#23001117)
A lot of us have written Wikipedia.
Re:textfiles.com by Scuds on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:27PM (#22997313)
phrack writers went pro.