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Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by throwaway6575 on Saturday April 18, 2020 @12:50AM (#22905401)
Chess is one of the few fields where dominance can easily stretch into several decades - if you're a young prodigy you may breach into top level in your teenage years and last well until your 50s or 60s. Of course you won't be #1 this whole time (check out Lasker's longevity though) but you will always remain a top contender.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by Waterluvian on Sunday April 19, 2020 @09:15AM (#22915675)
FWIW this is why I've adopted Curling after playing hockey for a decade. It is an incredibly skillful and physical game and yet you see 80 year olds at the rink playing it. You can get good at it and be good for a long long time. You don't get too old.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by exclusiv on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:45PM (#22917046)
Also the beauty of golf. You can enjoy it until your 70s, some even older. You can do outings with several generations. Has shorter tees for younger, older, ladies if they want to use the. It also has a legitimate handicap system so everyone can compete.

I also really love fishing, mostly for different reasons, but it's multi generational too of course.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by ganeshkrishnan on Saturday April 18, 2020 @01:48AM (#22905623)
I would like to differ on this. It's getting harder and harder to maintain dominance. Kasparov was the one to hold the longest. Magnus, even though he is one of the best ever, is already losing out to Alireza in bullet, blitz and even almost in classical.

Chess theory has a new Renaissance due to neutral networks and we will see newer GM's adapting to it.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by vpa10 on Saturday April 18, 2020 @06:34AM (#22906750)
This is not how I see it. Carlsen lost one insanely long online bullet match on lichess.

He narrowly lost an online banter blitz match. This is not blitz, since also you have to talk while playing, which does not seem to suit Carlsen's personality.

In classical, you can often "almost lose", except that Carlsen does not "actually lose", as exemplified by his ongoing record non-loss streak.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by jquery on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:56AM (#22916309)
People are reading a bit too much into this loss. It is a big deal that someone was able to beat Magnus Carlsen at any time control, especially in this era where Magnus has seemingly reached a new level of chess skill, but bullet is by far the the easiest for a champion to make a mistake or series of them. Magnus is ridiculously strong at bullet but I’ve watched his live-streams and sometimes he blunders really badly, that’s just part of bullet. Although he is incredibly strong at bullet, probably 50-100 points higher than the world #2. Anyone not a high ranked GM wouldn’t stand a chance of beating him in a series of more than 5 games. But I’ve seen him lose to players he is obviously better than. He’s the #1 so they try their hardest. Nothing comes easily for Magnus.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by freyir on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:57PM (#22917969)
> "probably 50-100 points higher than the world #2"

He can't be 50-100 points higher than himself. Hikaru is #1.

https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men_blitz

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by Taek on Sunday April 19, 2020 @03:13PM (#22918079)
That's blitz. Bullet is a faster time control
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by freyir on Sunday April 19, 2020 @05:50PM (#22919084)
Oh, you're right. Google pulls up FIDE's blitz rankings when you search for bullet chess rankings.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by ganeshkrishnan on Monday April 20, 2020 @10:40AM (#22924178)
Bullet games are not officially rated
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by pedrosorio on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:25PM (#22916882)
“Although he is incredibly strong at bullet, probably 50-100 points higher than the world #2”

Are you forgetting about Hikaru Nakamura?

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by me_me_me on Monday April 20, 2020 @05:37AM (#22922431)
The classical time control chess is boring. It really feels like an exercise in memorization.

I stopped watching those as almost every tournament ends in armagedon. Its a statement of the incredible skills top players poses, but its incredibly boring to watch draw after draw.

Quicker time controls are more dynamic and allow to play subpar move to throw off your opponent. Often you can see some crazy attacks.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by lonelappde on Saturday April 18, 2020 @04:50PM (#22911010)
In the banter blitz I saw, they aren't really bantering, just making offhand comments during downtime.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by thom on Sunday April 19, 2020 @08:53AM (#22915571)
I watch a variety of games on Twitch, and I am fairly sure that no player would claim they play optimally while commentating themselves and explaining their thought processes.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by glxxyz on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:50PM (#22917915)
They don't really banter in 'banter blitz', they explain the position and their strategy, which is much more interesting.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by thom on Sunday April 19, 2020 @08:52AM (#22915567)
I think if anyone has benefited from the coming of AlphaGo and Leela, it's Magnus himself. 2019 was such a renaissance for him partly because all these intuitive positional lines with pawn sacrifices opened up, and I felt in the years previous to that that his love for the game seemed slightly on the wane as he regularly became mired in others' Stockfish prep (while still being able to mostly pull it out due to endgame technique).
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by dmit on Sunday April 19, 2020 @09:55AM (#22915919)
In fact, it was Magnus himself (currently 29 years old, as of April 2020) who said his favorite chess player was himself, when he was around 23. That Magnus apparently saw things on the board that current (overwhelmingly dominant) Magnus can't any more. So even in chess there's a physical prime, just like in pretty much any other sport.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by nal100 on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:09AM (#22916005)
He said that (jokingly) before his fabulous 2019 year.

Right now he's spending a lot of time promoting chess24 with banter blitz, hanging around on lichess playing 100 games bullet matches, commenting on chess24 and other things that would profoundly ruin anyone else's concentration.

So, no big deal if he very occasionally loses (online!) games.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by pbhjpbhj on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:39PM (#22916988)
Carlsen losing is exceptionally good advertising, and makes him the center of more attention.

It reminds me of the tennis player John McEnroe, win or lose we remember him for his outbursts, he made a lot of advertising money because of that.

In short, Carlsen was probably beaten, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he was just winning at a different game (exposure or money).

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by dejv on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:12PM (#22917647)
I am really curious if we are going too see players adopting AlphaZero tactics. Games I saw goes so against current intuition and it would be interesting to see chess evolving.

Current crop of GMs benefited greatly from short feedback loops by using computers, but they still operate in explored problem space.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by gamegoblin on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:38PM (#22917827)
For what it's worth, Magnus has recently hit an all-time ratings high after a very, very slow decline over the last 5 years. And he attributes his recent bump to studying the AlphaZero games.

https://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?event=1503014

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by buzzdenver on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:57PM (#22917961)
Come on, it's not like Kasparov won all the tournaments. Magnus is far from invincible, but currently he's still dominating.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by im3w1l on Sunday April 19, 2020 @08:24AM (#22915421)
And I thought short time controls were Magnus' forte. I guess it may be the one where age related decline sets in the quickest.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by throwaway6575 on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:40PM (#22916998)
Magnus is so incredibly strong that people think he's about to decline when suffering one (1) loss from another rising star in a niche online format. This is like when Capablanca didn't lose a single game between 1917 and 1924 and everyone acted like "the Schachmachine ist kaputt" when he broke his streak. The fact is that competition is incredibly tough and differences betwene player levels are imperceptible to all but the very most trained eyes. In fact that's why championships need so many games and tie-breakers - the people are so equal in ability that the most likely result from a match between to top level players is a draw.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by jpmoral on Sunday April 19, 2020 @09:05AM (#22915636)
Isn't he ridiculously strong at all time controls?
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by emerongi on Sunday April 19, 2020 @09:28AM (#22915734)
He is. Carlsen is a unique player in many respects and he usually comes back even stronger from losses. To say that he is "losing out" to someone is a bit premature I would say.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by dntbnmpls on Sunday April 19, 2020 @08:10AM (#22915337)
> Chess is one of the few fields where dominance can easily stretch into several decades

Easily? No. The only player to have the top rating longer than 10 years is kasparov.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_numbe...

> if you're a young prodigy you may breach into top level in your teenage years and last well until your 50s or 60s. Of course you won't be #1 this whole time (check out Lasker's longevity though) but you will always remain a top contender.

No. There is nobody 50 or older in the fide ranking ( top 100 ).

https://ratings.fide.com/

Chess is a mentally and physically draining sport. Top players tend to drop off considerably in their late 30s and 40s as younger talent takes over.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by thom on Sunday April 19, 2020 @08:46AM (#22915542)
Anand, Gelfand, Dreev and Ivanchuck are all 50 or older, unless you just mean blitz, in which case it's just Anand and Dreev.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by DiogenesKynikos on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:07PM (#22917595)
Anand is about 100 Elo points weaker than Carlsen at all time controls. It's impressive that Anand is still #15 at his age (50 years), but he's the only 50-year-old at that elite level (2700+ Elo).

The age distribution of the top 100 Classical players is:

    16-19: 5
    20-29: 39
    30-39: 40
    40-49: 12
    50-51: 4
The 20s and 30s are really the peak ages for chess.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by thom on Sunday April 19, 2020 @05:20PM (#22918892)
Wasn't disputing that, just the inaccuracy of the previous comment.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by brmgb on Sunday April 19, 2020 @07:47PM (#22919775)
> Easily? No. The only player to have the top rating longer than 10 years is kasparov.

That's because you are looking at a FIDE list which starts in 1971. Mikhail Botvinnik was the world champion from a nearly uninterrupted period from 1948 to 1963 (he lost to Tal once).

Capablanca was undefeated from 10 February 1916 to 21 March 1924 and remained a contender for best player in the world until his retirement in 1931.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by V-2 on Sunday April 19, 2020 @09:53AM (#22915908)
Korchnoi was still in the top 100 at the age of 76.

Of course "easily" is a vast exaggeration.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by microtherion on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:00PM (#22916705)
And Samuel Reshevsky was an elite player from age 11 into his 70s.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by Nokinside on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:02AM (#22915960)
Formula 1 racing is similar.

Drivers become aś good as they every can in pure pure driving skill in karting when they are still teenagers. All skills needed for driving fast are developed early.

Rest of the career in F3/F2/GP2 feeder series to F1 is just maturing psychologically, getting experience and learning stuff you need outside the track. Ultimate skill level is already there or not. Drivers will eventually fade out when their physical performance declines in late 30's.

(actual career performance depends on cars, teams, money, business and marketing)

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by scott_s on Sunday April 19, 2020 @01:46PM (#22917432)
Because Formula 1 - like most other sports - has such a dependence on an athlete's physical fitness to actually express the skill they have, I think it - and most other sports - is rather unlike chess.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by dominotw on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:12AM (#22916022)
same with skiing and many other sports.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by hyperbovine on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:13AM (#22916041)
With chess you do not stand a nontrivial chance of dying each time you take to the field. So not the same, it seems to me.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by mrosett on Sunday April 19, 2020 @10:51AM (#22916268)
The dominant risk when I ski is traveling to and from the resort. So I suppose your point stands if you only play from home. Even so, it seems a bit irrelevant to the discussion.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by pbhjpbhj on Sunday April 19, 2020 @12:33PM (#22916946)
Maybe for you the travel to skiing is dominant, but I've known many people (UK acquaintances) who've been injured skiing but none who've been injured on route to go skiing. And that's just leisure skiing, in racing I'd imagine injuries are far more common.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by antasvara on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:10PM (#22917628)
They were responding to the assertion that skiing holds a larger risk of dying than the travel to the ski resort. Statistically, it seems more likely that a person would die in a car accident versus skiing.
Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by Leherenn on Sunday April 19, 2020 @03:01PM (#22917986)
"The rate of sustaining an injury while skiing or snowboarding on Swiss slopes was 2.8 per 1000 skier days on average from 2008 to 2010. The fatality rate was 0.7 deaths per one million skier days in the same period of time."

"In cars, one person died per 5.5 million passenger hours traveled."

So skiing seems 4x more dangerous.

Anecdotally, I've read that one hospital in the Swiss Alps was struggling money wise, because the ski season was ended early, and ski accidents were a major revenue for them.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by gamegoblin on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:45PM (#22917881)
According to [1], Skiing is 0.7 micromorts, whereas driving is about 400km per micromort. Therefore, the break-even point is 140km (0.7 * 400 / 2 way trip). If your local ski resort is < 140km away, the skiing is more likely to kill you.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by CydeWeys on Sunday April 19, 2020 @03:13PM (#22918077)
That's per day of skiing, and a lot of ski trips are more than one day.

This doesn't take individual behavior into account though. A lot of people are skiing more cautiously than the insane risk takers who kill themselves in avalanches or falls in deep woods or backcountry. Also, the driving to the ski resort is likely to be more dangerous than regular driving because you're more likely to encounter icing, snow on the road, and low visibility conditions.

All in my guess would be that the driving is more dangerous for most skiers.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by mrosett on Monday April 20, 2020 @09:52AM (#22923794)
Injured skiing? Absolutely, and if you race it's a question of when, not if. But I was responding to a claim about deaths.

For the last decade, every ski trip I've done has required either 4+ hours of driving or a cross-country plane trip. Add in the fact that much of that driving is on icy, narrow mountain roads in storm conditions, and the stats that other people shared make it clear that driving is the bigger risk to me.

Re:Iranian teen shocks Magnus Carlsen to win $14k prize by edgarvaldes on Sunday April 19, 2020 @02:31PM (#22917799)
See the great Viktor Korchnoi[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Korchnoi