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Remember during Covid where every restaurant's menu was a QR code on the table that linked to a PDF in S3?

[^X] means any character other than X, so [^X]* matches zero or more of any characters, so long as none of them are X.

Check the diskette for physical damage on the recording surface and at the hub centerhole.

> I’m guessing you’re not counting the fact that if you buy a stock for $100 you still have the $100 (you can sell the stock)

Your guess is wrong. A better term for what I calculated is the IRR of a series of cash flows. You're correct that stock is a liquid asset, I'm obviously aware that I can't liquidate the panels attached to my roof.

This whole thread got out of hand, I was just giving the anecdote that I saw a much better return on a heatpump than a solar installation. I don't care who believes or doesn't believe my calculations.

> Easy to verify though: what was your install cost and how much is it saving you on energy bills?

A rough estimate is given on my original comment in this thread.

Yes the calculations are different for natural gas, I don't have that option. Rural properties here (south/central Ontario) typically use delivered oil or propane supplemented by firewood.

I recently thought about running a BBQ gas line from my main 500 gallon propane tank, but with delivered propane close to $1/litre right now and a 20lb tank holding about 18 litres there's no saving over just using with the portable tanks. I prefer being able to move the barbecue around too, although I probably would run a line if I had an outdoor kitchen type setup.

That makes more sense, but your utility's failings are not necessarily the same as mine nor anyone else's.

I wish I'd never mentioned solar nor net metering now- I'm not on some crusade to promote either, I was just explaining the economics of my personal setup.

> I can’t imagine the math is any better in Canada.

I don't have to imagine, I've actually installed it and I can see the impact on my bills. By most estimates it has a 12-15 year ROI that matches the stock market, and will continue to generate electricity for another 10-15 years after that. The 'math' is a function of many things: orientation, roof angle, occlusion, installation costs, electricity cost, latitude, grants/loans, net metering terms, etc. It's a huge assumption to say that what doesn't work in one location in Cleveland won't work for a property in Canada 2 degrees further north.

The point of my original post was that I’ve seen a much greater ROI on my own heatpump than solar, even though I don’t regret the solar installation. I wasn’t making any claims about sustainability/scalability of solar, just showing how it worked for me.

It is for a fraction of consumers- power companies and governments are well aware of that.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘unsustainable’ nor ‘critical mass’ here. Of course not everyone can net meter- on a sunny but mild day with no-one using A/C nor heating and everyone contributing back to the grid it doesn’t work.

My local utility is well aware of that, applications for permits to net meter have to be made, and only a fraction (something like 15%) of properties in each area can net meter. Also the government is aware and there are no grants for net metering, only for battery systems.

I’m giving details about my personal system for one property in one location, not in any way making a statement about what works for anyone else.

The issue for me with batteries is that in the summer I can produce in a day much more than I can use, and in winter I consume a lot and barely produce anything. This is where net metering steps in- I can ‘store’ all of my excess summer consumption in the grid in summer and get credit for it in winter.

A cheaper smaller system right sized for summer consumption with a battery would have my second best option, but for me never showed any potential payback due to the fixed costs of installation and the extra battery costs.

I think the argument is that on average people are buying heat pumps and EVs faster they are installing solar panels but it’s not completely convincing though, power stations can be added.

Further north where I am solar can only ever be a small component of total electricity generation due to the dark snowy cloudy winter months with close to zero solar generation for weeks on end.

Yes the people selling solar systems all factor in aggressive future electricity increases, it's best to also see how it looks with more conservative rate increases. By my calculation in a reply above with the interest free solar loan it's an 8% return over 14.3 years.

Yes the figures are my approximate bills so include net metering revenues.

You're right about the 8 year negative IRR for the heatpump, although I'm being very conservative about propane costs, it's likely much shorter. I was pretty conservative about the solar savings too, I generally go for the worst case in these estimates.

Your overall NPV calculation seems a bit off. It's ~21 years to zero NPV at 8% discount rate, spending $80 up front to save $8/year. Factoring in the 10 year interest free government solar loan makes it more like 14 years. My working:

    =nper(8%, -8, 80)
    20.9

    =nper(8%, -8, pv(8%, 10, -4)+40)
    14.3

The solar system is fun to tinker with and should pay off 'eventually', it's not a no brainer of a decision like the heatpump though.

There was a C$7k government grant at the time for the heatpump, which roughly matched the tax.

The current Ontario solar grant is weird- it only applies to battery systems without net-metering. They also offered a 10-year interest free loan though so I took that, improves the ROI a little. I think battery systems do make more sense for people who are further sound and using more electricity at the time of year that they are generating it. The solar sales people estimated a 10-year ROI but they had to include a pretty high annual energy cost increase in their calculations (I think 8%/year), I estimated more like 15 years.

I didn't really consider replacement, by all reports the WaterFurnace pump should last 25-30 years and the propane furnace was probably 5 years old so would have lasted about the same. I would think that the WaterFurnace costs a little more to replace, maybe a winter's worth of propane.

Several people told me that ground source heat pumps were too expensive, but years later it still feels like the best investment I've ever made, the gentle heating and cooling is more comfortable too. Anyone with enough space who has to have fuel delivered (propane, oil, etc.) should seriously consider it.

People told me that, but I did the calculations myself and the impact on my energy bills is real. Net metering is essential though, so not everyone can do it.

I generate 2/3 as much as say SoCal, and less evenly (a lot more in summer). Cooler temperatures improve solar panel efficiency too. There are online calculators if you want to check.

Yes horizontal loop, 200 metre trench ~2m deep with 6 pipes at the bottom. Took 3 days for a 20 ton excavator to dig and fill in the trench. Maybe I got lucky with the installer but it wasn't eyewatering. Vertical loops do cost a lot more. Repairing the lawn with turf or professional landscaping would have cost more than the install, so I did it myself with a tractor, some spare topsoil, and a few bags of Costco grass seed.

I'm in Canada at a similar latitude with ground source, resistance heating normally kicks in at about -25C (-13F) or so, just a few hours on the coldest nights, doesn't cost much. I could probably leave the breaker off too, I wouldn't mind it a degree or two colder.

The prices when I looked weren't that different- it was about C$30k Canadian for air source and C$40k for ground source (which I went with).

I'm amazed at these prices, I replaced a propane tank + furnace with horizontal loop ground source for $40k Canadian (+ tax, but government rebate matched that). It's almost paid for itself in about 6 years, I gave more detailed numbers in another reply.

It's the opposite for me, much bigger ROI on the heatpump than solar. Rural property, 10 years old, ~3,500 sq ft + basement, in Canada where summer can be above 30C (86F) and winter below -30C (-20F). Electricity costs (Canadian) 7.6 ¢/kWh off-peak and 15.8 ¢/kWh on-peak here.

I spent C$40K (about US$30k) on a ground source aka 'geothermal' heat pump to replace furnace powered by propane tank. I kept propane for on-demand hot water and whole house generator. I have no options for utilities other than electricity.

A couple of years later I spent another C$40k for a 20kW rooftop solar system, with net metering and no battery. Net metering was critical for getting any return at all. A battery is next to useless here- I generate almost all of my solar electricity in May-Oct but use the majority of it in Nov-April. Net metering lets me 'store' excess from summer and use it in winter.

Annual costs:

Before:

    C$8,000+ propane (heating + hot water)
    C$2,500 electricity (cooling + misc)
    $10,500 total

With C$40k investment in geothermal heatpump:

    C$4,500 electricity (heating + cooling + misc)
    C$500 propane (hot water)
    C$5,000 total.

With heatpump and then C$40k investment in rooftop solar:

    C$2,000 electricity (heating + cooling + misc)
    C$500 propane (hot water)
    C$2,500 total.

So I'm seeing about C$8k/yr saving for C$80k investment. The heatpump saved me over $5k a year and the solar about $2,500 a year. The heatpump has pretty much paid for itself after 5 years, the solar will take at least 15 years (unless prices go way up) although should eventually see some return 15-20 years out.

In reality it might have cost even more than that to heat with propane. On the propane furnace we barely heated in winter, burned a lot of firewood to make part of the house livable. I'm trying estimate how much it would cost to heat the house to a comfortable 20C (68F) although the thermostat now with the heatpump is set to 22C (72F) in winter so there's an improvement in comfort as well as the ROI.

Use an AI tool to summarize it. /sarcasm, kind of

> if someone is calling from a legit number on caller id it means NOTHING

I had to tell my bank this once a few years ago, when they called me up and then expected me to give them personal information to confirm my identity.

The 15oz (pre-shrinkflation) Betty Crocker mix weighs 432g, 2/3 the weight of your recipe's flour and sugar alone, so your recipe is for a much larger cake.

Wal-Mart's own brand flour is about (Canadian) $C0.15/kg if buying 2.5kg, cake & pastry flour more like 24 cents/kg. Granulated Sugar is C$0.15/kg. I'm not sure where you're buying flour & sugar.

Your most expensive ingredient is butter but you could have easily chosen a recipe without butter. I reckon the cake with butter will be much better than BC's version though.

Other advantages of baking with a recipe are being able to scale the recipe up or down as needed, and always having the ingredients for many different recipes on hand without having to buy a vanilla cake mix, a brownie mix, a pancake mix, a waffle mix etc.

The main advantage of a recipe is tweakability. I find most commercial cakes far too sweet, and when I bake from a recipe I can find the point to which I can reduce the sugar without it becoming too bland.

I don't know whether they're harmful but I'm quite happy to cook a cake without Propylene glycol, Xanthan gum, cellulose gum, sodium stearoyl lactylate, monoglycerides, and monoesters of fatty acids

I've always been baffled by the popularity of pre-made recipe boxes. Maybe useful if I was camping or something, but not when I have access to an actual kitchen.

I worked on an email client. Many many character set headaches.

Public companies do this sort of thing too, or at least they used to. It's typically grouped under 'Corporate Social Responsibility'. They aren't doing it out of pure altruism:

From https://benevity.com/resources/corporate-social-responsibili... "CSR increases customer retention and loyalty: Research shows that 87% of Americans are more likely to buy a product from a company that they can align their values with, and over half of all consumers are willing to pay extra for a product if they’re buying from a company with a sturdy CSR strategy."

This reads like "Confessions of a Panic Buyer".

I think about that too. My home is isolated with plenty of firewood, well water, solar power and a backup whole house generator with weeks/months of propane. I'm unlikely to last more than a few days into the apocalypse without it all being taken from me by someone stronger or better armed.

It sounds like the company is doing it as a community service. It doesn't make 'business sense' except perhaps by improving the company's image. Companies also donate to charities etc.

“This is our core task and a responsibility we take on, and we also believe that it is timely […] that we – like other countries – prepare for possible crisis situations, which a good and constructive dialogue with the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has also confirmed. We hope that this will not be necessary, but should it happen, our customers can count on us.”

https://www.esmmagazine.com/retail/salling-group-advances-wo...

No. The camera specs are why I wouldn't buy the Air in the first place. An improved camera is pretty much the only reason for my last couple of phone upgrades. I don't play games on them and there's not much else compelling that they add- batteries could be replaced.