News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:43PM (#22775256)
The CDC has no credibility. Here's some real advice:

1. Don't go out unless absolutely necessary.

2. If you go out, wear the highest specification mask available to you.

3. If you go out, wear the best eye covering available to you. Sealed goggles are ideal, but even a pair of sunglasses will provide protection.

4. If you have to improvise a mask, try to use a filter material better than cotton. Some ideas: Vacuum Bags, HEPA filters, Furnace Filters, Car Cabin Air Filters. Try to make a mask that seals well against your face.

5. If you have extra masks, donate them. You may want to wait to donate them until hospitals start routinely disinfecting and reusing their PPE, because otherwise the masks you donate may get used once and thrown out. Masks donated later may make more of a difference.

Do not feel shame about wearing a medical mask out. The most useless mask is the one that sits on a shelf while its owner is outside getting infected or spreading infection. You are not denying a healthcare worker a mask by wearing one. You are being responsible and not getting infected. If you don't infected, you don't go to the hospital and infect a healthcare worker. If you don't get infected, you don't spread the virus to anyone else, and they don't go to the hospital either.

Look in your garage. Many people have a few masks left over from painting or sanding or wildfires.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by fxj on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:14AM (#22777148)
Additional advice is:

6. Do not shake hands or otherwise touch anyone around you.

7. Keep a distance of at least 1 meter (2m ist better)

8. Do not touch your face, your eyes or your nose even when they are itchy.

9. Use your brain to foresee situations where you can be infected.

10. Don't use public transport and don't sit near anyone closer than 2 meters.

11. Wear gloves (any kind, skiing gloves are fine too)

12. Get desinfection gel after a possible contamination situation and wash your hands when you come home.

13. Do not enter your PIN codes with bare hands

14. Don't use cash! No coins in your pockets.

15. Don't share your mobile phone. Keep it to yourself.

16. Don't share your earbuds.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by IshKebab on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:09AM (#22777366)
Do you have actual evidence for any of these?
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by fxj on Saturday April 04, 2020 @07:10AM (#22777578)
Yes plenty. Which one do you want to know about?
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by IshKebab on Saturday April 04, 2020 @07:07PM (#22782237)
Wearing skiing gloves.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by robocat on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:33PM (#22775478)
> donate them

I’m predicting that if you want to donate, you should donate directly to front line workers, since a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin, and I’d be concerned about thefts and scams from charities. Anyone who really needs them will just accept a donation gratefully, and can share with others on front line.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by csnover on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:59PM (#22775589)
> a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin

There are multiple PPE donation drives going on right now, and these supplies do go to hospitals and other health care workers. I don’t know why you think hospitals won’t use these masks; they will soon have nothing else to use.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/2/21205935/cook...

https://www.milb.com/news/ppe-donation-drive-set-for-april-4...

https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nurses-asking-for-public-to-d...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woodlands-to-start-help-ou...

https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4496510-ppe-donation-drive...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by justusthane on Friday April 03, 2020 @11:55PM (#22776089)
And here’s one hospital that is accepting homemade masks directly: https://www.reidhealth.org/making-masks

I’m sure there are others.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by amluto on Friday April 03, 2020 @11:57PM (#22776100)
> 2. If you go out, wear the highest specification mask available to you.

Is your goal to protect yourself or to protect others? If the latter, the fancy N95 or P100 masks with exhalation vents are of highly dubious value.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:16AM (#22776343)
Even with the vent, droplets will be drastically reduced if they have to go through that little orifice. If you want to be a good citizen, put a piece of tape over the valve.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by frank2 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:21AM (#22776365)
Some N95-rated masks don't have an exhaust vent.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by sjg007 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:00AM (#22776903)
Furnace and cabin filters are probably not worth it.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @03:11PM (#22780673)
Depends on the spec of the filter and the size of the droplets. Both of those will filter a lot better than woven cotton.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:44PM (#22775528)
Do not wear medical-grade masks, folks. Every mask you wear is taking an essential piece of equipment from someone who both knows how to use it, and desperately needs it.

I can tell you that I see lots of people walking around the streets of my city with medical grade masks, worn improperly. Even if they are wearing them properly, I routinely see people pull the mask down with their bare hands to talk, use the phone, etc. Those masks are wasted.

As someone who has spent years working in a lab environment: you don't know how to wear a mask. You don't. It won't protect you. This guidance here is explicit that the reason they're asking people to wear masks is to protect other people. You can do that with a t-shirt wrapped around your face.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:16PM (#22775647)
This is yet more propaganda. If you want to know how to wear a medical mask, you can find out on YouTube. It's not rocket science. Yes, without a professional fit test, you may not get an absolutely perfect seal, but you can do a quick pressure check by exhaling and feeling whether the mask is holding pressure. If you do this pressure check you will be getting very substantial protection from the mask.

You wearing a mask is not taking anything away from anyone. It is rational protection. Many people have (non medical, but N95 or similar) masks sitting in their garage.

Those masks are not doing anyone any good sitting around. If you have masks and are going out not wearing them, you are putting healthcare workers lives at risk, because you could be spreading or contracting the virus. You or someone else will then go to the hospital and potentially infect a healthcare worker. The best way to protect that healthcare worker is not to give them a mask, it's not to expose them in the first place. If you want to donate them, that's a great thing, but the main thing is that masks should be worn, not gathering dust.

If everyone had been wearing masks for the past month, we wouldn't be in this situation. Let's not perpetuate the nonsense.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:18AM (#22777170)
> It's not rocket science.

Tell us how to correctly don and doff a surgical mask, or a filter, and we can tell you how many steps you got wrong.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:31AM (#22777437)
Do you sincerely believe that people are so stupid that even if you give them instructions, wearing masks will be a net negative?
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:55AM (#22777526)
It's not about whether people are stupid or not. It's that donning and doffing PPE is difficult. We know that qualified, registered, trained, healthcare professionals struggle with it. Already in this thread we've seen someone post a link to a video about putting on and taking off a face mask and that video had incorrect, dangerous, procedure.

This video shows him using bare hands to touch the front of his mask to take it off. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776002

Literature suggests that 80% of HCP infection is caused by incorrect doffing

https://twitter.com/drbencb/status/1236635924274057216?s=20

https://twitter.com/cmac_evans/status/1236689340123754496?s=...

Because it's so hard we see healthcare settings strongly encouraging "dofficers" / "spotters" -- a second person to watch you taking off your PPE to make sure you're doing it right.

https://twitter.com/heatherevansmd/status/124443236962241741...

https://twitter.com/Dolores_McKeen/status/124432789143070720...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:26PM (#22780300)
You make a lot of good points, but I believe they are somewhat overstated for the community case as opposed to say an Intensivist intubating someone. The amount of virus exposure is quite different. If the average person reduces exposure 90%, this is a huge win. If an ICU doc reduces exposure 90%, he gets infected the first day.

Duffing protocol is very important if your PPE is massively contaminated. I’m not as convinced if you may have been breathed on by a carrier at the supermarket.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:01PM (#22781482)
> The amount of virus exposure is quite different

That's what the CDC previously said! This post is you agreeing with the CDC.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:56PM (#22781866)
What the CDC said was that the level of risk was not high enough to warrant non HCWs to wear N95 masks.

If you're an HCW, no question, you had better be PPEing up to the max and following donning and duffing procedures to a T. You have huge exposure, and if you screw up, you're very likely to catch COVID.

If the level of risk is so high that I am not legally allowed to leave my house except for specified purposes, you would have to be utterly foolish to think that wearing the best mask available to you is not an utterly obviously correct precaution. You really need to be incredibly gullible to not see this.

If you're not an HCW, in March, as an American, you had about a 1/1000 chance of being a LAB CONFIRMED case of COVID. 1000 people are dying every day of this in America, and the numbers keep going up. If this continues, we will have millions of deaths from COVID.

Being an HCW now is like being a Formula 1 driver. You had better have a crapload of safety gear, and even then your risk is very high. Your chance of dying in a car accident in the next month is roughly 1/500,000. Your chance of dying of COVID next month is perhaps 1/1000. That's 500x the risk of driving. Your argument comes down to "Well, since you're not driving in a Formula One race, there's no need to put on your seatbelt." If you wouldn't dream of getting behind the wheel without a seatbelt, why would you go outside without a mask when the risk is 500x higher?

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by wavepruner on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:10PM (#22780151)
People who do not work in healthcare are perfectly capable of learning how to doff properly. Qualifications and training in ancillary issues does not matter. Training in mask donning/doffing is what matters, and anyone can be trained in this.

Most people have someone in their life they can ask to spot them as they practice removing their mask.

Also, wouldn't washing/disinfecting your hands after improper doffing prevent self-contamination?

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by mindslight on Saturday April 04, 2020 @11:41AM (#22778880)
1. Wash hands thoroughly.

2. Take off mask.

3. Wash hands thoroughly.

The main point is to wash your hands in between each hand touching things of different contamination levels (eg mask body and back of head).

One's implementation may not be perfect, but it's much better to attempt, practice, and slowly get better - rather than succumbing to do-nothing disinformation being pushed by western governments caught without the will to stockpile and procure enough PPE.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:26PM (#22779787)
It's really weird to see people reject the clear science and whole-heartedly accept conspiracy theory bullshit.

You got the doffing procedure wrong btw.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by mindslight on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:04PM (#22780107)
What are you saying is wrong specifically? Even that bad-example video someone linked of directly grabbing the filter should not be a problem if you wash your hands afterwards. FWIW I use a 3M 7503 with discrete filters so there is a mask body to grab that is not the filter. Obviously other PPE (eg gloves) requires appropriate interleaving, but we're just focusing on masks here.

What "clear science" are you referencing? I have not seen data demonstrating that individual mask use increases the chance of infection, which would be necessary to argue against individuals wearing masks on its own merits. Please share if you have it.

In general, calling something a "conspiracy theory" is fallacious. From what I've seen, the intellectual argument underlying the "no masks" narrative is that individual mask use will "take away" from hospitals. When compared to other countries (eg: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776614), this is patently ridiculous.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:05PM (#22781514)
> What are you saying is wrong specifically?

I'm saying that donning PPE is hard, and that members of the public can't do it. They usually miss out several hand washing steps, or they don items in the wrong order, or they don't have a safe place to doff items.

You've said "wash your hands" -- you do that by touching taps/faucets. Most people would have to open a few doors to get to the taps. Now all those door handles, and the taps, are contaminated, so you need to clean them too.

> FWIW I use a 3M 7503 with discrete filters so there is a mask body to grab

The entire front face of that filter is to be regarded as contaminated. You must not touch it when doffing the mask.

People in this thread are claiming that one use of the mask is to prevent infected people from infecting others, but this mask has an exhalation valve, so it doesn't stop infected droplets leaving the person wearing it.

Masks provide marginal benefits to people walking around in public, but only if they're worn absolutely correctly. As soon as people deviate from the rigorous protocols those marginal benefits disappear. Worse, there's a chance that they increase risk. If people are touching their masks but not immediately washing their hands, or they are touching their face to adjust their mask then the mask is causing harm.

> From what I've seen, the intellectual argument underlying the "no masks" narrative is that individual mask use will "take away" from hospitals

WHO, CDC, PHE, etc have all been pretty clear that masks don't provide any benefit to members of the public. This thread is full of paranoid nonsense that this was a deliberate lie by the CDC/WHO to preserve stocks.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by mindslight on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:07PM (#22781940)
> I'm saying that donning PPE is hard, and that members of the public can't do it. They usually miss out several hand washing steps, or they don items in the wrong order, or they don't have a safe place to doff items.

And the solution here is to gain experience. I don't "adjust my mask" because I've been using it for household projects for the past few years. My first grocery run with a mask was a month ago. I definitely got to points where I messed up steps or did not have a good plan, but I learned. The best time to start is now.

> Most people would have to open a few doors to get to the taps. Now all those door handles, and the taps, are contaminated, so you need to clean them too.

So then, the same exact situation they're in if they go to the grocery store without a mask? People obviously need to wash their door handles as well.

> The entire front face of that filter is to be regarded as contaminated

The 7503 is the face piece, with my point being that I can grab that part without touching the filters. I have the 2297 filters, which are large round cloth discs - exposed liabilities. The 7093 filters would be better as the filter element is encased in plastic, but alas that's not what I already had.

And yes, it has an exhalation valve which is sub-optimal. I'll try remedying this next time I take the whole thing apart to deep clean it.

> WHO, CDC, PHE, etc have all been pretty clear that masks don't provide any benefit to members of the public

They have not backed up this position with data showing that individual mask wearing is actively harmful, and neither have you. Furthermore, they do recommend that healthcare professionals wear masks, which is inconsistent - if masks are effective against virus particles in a hospital, they can be effective against virus particles in a grocery store.

A basic analysis of the physical system is that all contamination ending up on mask filters would have otherwise been breathed in. So even if all of the filtered virus ends up on someone's hands and is not washed off, that is still better than it being in their airways!

If mask wearing is not actively harmful, then why discourage it at all? The meat of your argument seems to boil down to "you're likely to do it wrong" which is neither scientific nor productive.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:37PM (#22775761)
"This is yet more propaganda."

Exactly who am I propagandizing? Doctors?

"You wearing a mask is not taking anything away from anyone."

We have a mask shortage in hospitals. You are literally taking masks from people who need them more.

"It is rational protection."

For the medical professionals who need them, yes. For you, it's overkill.

"Many people have (non medical, but N95 or similar) masks sitting in their garage."

They should be donating those to hospitals, ASAP.

*"The best way to protect that healthcare worker is not to give them a mask, it's not to expose them in the first place."

The best way to protect health care workers who do not have masks, today, is to give them masks. The second best way is to stay home. The third best way is to wash your hands. The fourth best way is to not touch your face.

Way, way down the list is "wear a mask", and like the guidelines say, not a medical one.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by redwall_hp on Friday April 03, 2020 @11:41PM (#22776048)
I'm going to add that retail workers should have adequate PPE as well. Not only is it an unreasonable personal risk otherwise, but it's a major means of spread.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:35AM (#22776620)
Yes, retail workers are the unsung heroes of this crisis. They should all have as much protection as a physician. A cashier deals with 200+ customers per shift. With the current infection rate, they have a very real chance of being infected every single day they show up to work. They're being rewarded with, if they're lucky, an extra $16 per shift. If you have extra masks, leave one as a tip to your cashier if he/she is unmasked. You might save their life.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:45AM (#22776444)
No. This is more propaganda. Research studies on SARS show that wearing an N95 mask reduces your chances of contracting SARS by 91%.

In March, 1 of every 1000 Americans had a confirmed case of COVID. In April, it might be 1 out of 40. For confirmed cases, given that testing is mostly restricted to people appearing at the hospital, I estimate the fatality rate is 7%. That means that in April, you may have a 0.2% chance of dying from COVID. If you wear a mask consistently, that goes down to 0.02%. If you assume you have 40 years left to live, if you're maskless, COVID will reduce your life expectancy by 1 month. If you have an N95 mask that you wear consistently, COVID will reduce your life expectancy by 3 days. Wearing an N95 mask in April increases your life expectancy by 27 days.

By contrast, wearing a seatbelt over the next month, statistically increases your life expectancy by about 0.2 days. Over the next month, wearing an N95 mask is about 130x more important than wearing a seatbelt.

All of this discounts the massive other benefits from not being infected: No long-term lung damage. All of the people you don't infect because you didn't get infected. No infecting healthcare workers. No contributing to the overload of the healthcare system. Plus, wearing a mask, even if you do get infected, you're much less likely to infect other people, which has a cascading effect.

The point is: If you have access to a mask, it's vitally important that you start wearing it if you go out. Still, don't go out unless absolutely necessary! Minimize contact! Especially for essential workers though like grocery store employees, delivery workers, etc, wear a mask!

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:47AM (#22776452)
Research studies on SARS show that wearing an N95 mask reduces your chances of contracting SARS by 91%.

OK, cite it.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:01AM (#22776502)
Gladly. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/ Table 6. This is a Cochrane review BTW, the gold standard in evidence based medicine.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:56AM (#22776695)
Cochrane is the name of a literature database, not a method. It implies nothing about the quality of the research.

In fact, this is a meta-analysis of 138 papers from five different databases, and they say right at the top of the abstract that most of the studies were of poor quality:

"Study quality was poor for the three randomised controlled trials and most of the cluster randomised controlled trials; the observational studies were of mixed quality. Heterogeneity precluded meta-analysis of most data except that from six case-control studies."

The table you're citing says that they found an odds ratio somewhat better than frequent handwashing (55%), but worse than wearing a gown (77%) when they averaged the results of five different case-control studies, mostly in hospital conditions (the sixth didn't look at masks). Two studies investigated the use of N95 masks (specifically) at preventing infected people from transmitting their virus to others, and for these studies, they found a .09 odds ratio (with a wide confidence interval: 0.03-0.3), and they go so far as to say:

"Evidence was limited for the superior effectiveness of barrier devices to droplets such as the N95 masks...over simple surgical masks."

So they don't even believe the numbers.

This paper in no way supports the statement you made...in fact, it appears that you completely misunderstood what you read, because the only intervention with 91% effectiveness was "handwashing, mask, gloves and gown combined." But hey...if that's the way you go outside, good for you.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:46AM (#22777039)
Please. Table 6.

Intervention: Wearing N95 Mask Intervention Effectiveness: 91%.

It's true that handwashing, wearing some kind of mask, gloves, and gown combined is also 91%, but that was not a study arm that specified an N95 mask. Wearing any mask has an intervention effectiveness of 68%. Adding the gloves and gown brings it up to 91%.

What the meta-analysis is saying is that wearing any mask + gloves + gown + handwashing is about the same effectiveness as wearing just an N95 mask. It also supports the idea that "don't touch your face" is probably good advice, but it's also probably not the primary means that SARS spreads. It's probably mostly breathing in droplets that someone just exhaled.

I understood perfectly well what they wrote. They say that evidence is limited for the superior effectiveness of N95 over any mask because the lower confidence interval of N95 and the upper confidence interval of any mask overlap by 5%. Based on the studies they analyzed though, it's likely that N95 is more effective than masks generally. It's also very logical since N95 masks filter better and have less leakage than surgical masks.

I am tired of people like you trying to bend science to their ideology. That is part of what got us into this horrible mess.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:48PM (#22781815)
"Intervention: Wearing N95 Mask Intervention Effectiveness: 91%"

I addressed this in my reply: this was based on two studies, both about transmission of the virus to other people. Moreover, the people doing the meta-analysis explicitly say that the evidence for using an N95 mask over a plain-old surgical mask is weak. The confidence interval extends from 0.03 to 0.30...in other words, the evidence is weak.

So basically, this study supports the CDC's guidelines: masks might help prevent you from spreading your infection to others. They don't support your claim ("wearing an N95 mask reduces your chances of contracting SARS by 91%") in any way.

"What the meta-analysis is saying is that wearing any mask + gloves + gown + handwashing is about the same effectiveness as wearing just an N95 mask."

It is absolutely not saying this. It is saying that the combined intervention is dramatically more effective than wearing a mask alone, except for two studies that explicitly talk about transmission. You don't understand what you're reading, and you're spreading misinformation.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by presto8 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:50PM (#22780516)
Table 6 for the N95 mask row cites w45 and w47. w47 had only 13 people in the study. And both w45 and w47 cite a medium risk of bias noting lack of description of controls and inconsistencies.

It would be nice to have more rigorous studies to support the claim?

Just to be clear, I do think people should wear masks!

Seto 2003w47 13 healthcare workers infected with confirmed SARS within 2-7 days of exposure, with no community exposure

w45 330 probable cases of SARS reported to Department of Health, Hong Kong

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:00AM (#22777094)
And by the way, when I do go outside, it's with a P100 mask, goggles, and gloves. I leave my shoes outside, go in through the garage, take off my clothes, throw them in the washing machine, sanitize my hands, and then take a shower.

For god's sake, this thing is so serious that we're not allowed to go outside for normal activities or go to work. We are all prisoners on very limited work release. If you're not taking extreme measures to protect yourself, you're an idiot.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:24AM (#22777190)
Since this is important to you I feel the need to tell you that your doffing procedure is incorrect and will lead to you being infected. You're missing two hand-washings. If you're removing your mask in the same room as all the other stuff you're potentially breathing in infected particles.

Here are three doffing procedures specifically for covid-19:

https://twitter.com/EMedSligo/status/1245948283576561670/pho...

https://twitter.com/DisneyBen/status/1245224791122030592/pho...

https://twitter.com/ashaukat09/status/1245169306234769408/ph...

This is supported by your Cochrane review:

> Compliance with interventions—especially educational programmes—was a problem for several studies, despite the importance of such low cost interventions. Routine long term implementation of some would be problematic—particularly maintaining strict hygiene and barrier routines for long periods, probably only feasible in highly motivated environments such as hospitals without the threat of an epidemic.

Something like 80% of infection of healthcare professionals happens during doffing. These are people who are trained to don and doff PPE, and who are supported to do so by their infection control teams. https://twitter.com/drbencb/status/1236635924274057216?s=20 https://twitter.com/NydahlPeter/status/1244875837448638464?s...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:57AM (#22777322)
Thanks!
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:54PM (#22781855)
The other comment on this subthread is such a comprehensive rebuttal to your paranoia that I can't add much. But I do want to say this: you should feel ashamed that you've taken valuable medical supplies from front-line responders. There are global shortages of masks and eye protection.

You don't need this equipment, and your paranoia is risking the lives of other people who do.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by bootlooped on Friday April 03, 2020 @11:30PM (#22776002)
I worked in a factory with horrible indoor air pollution for years, and wore N95 masks frequently. It's not rocket science. 3M has a 3 minute video up on how to wear one properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOnZFhxuw44

Is there anything in this video that requires an advanced degree to understand?

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:09AM (#22777369)
That video is suitable for non-harmful dust.

It's completely incorrect for infection control.

Donning: He starts by cupping the front of the mask with his bare hand! This is wrong.

Doffing: He starts by cupping the front of the mask with his bare hand! This is wrong. He's touching the infected part of the mask with his bare hands.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:32AM (#22777439)
Now explain viral load.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:42AM (#22777479)
80% of healthcare professionals are infected from incorrect doffing procedure.

Health care professionals who were using correct PPE have died because of failures in doffing procedure.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:53AM (#22777518)
Okay, make the perfect the enemy of the good instead. Whatever.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by DanBC on Saturday April 04, 2020 @06:57AM (#22777541)
No. Incorrect doffing isn't merely going from "best" to "good", it's going from "best" to "actively harmful".
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @03:08PM (#22780654)
Please clarify that. If virus gets on my mask, most of it would have gone in my nose if there were no mask. Even if a tiny portion of it transfers to my hands while doffing, it’s safer on my hands than in my nose. I can also wash my hands after and during doffing as you say.

You say that most infection in hospitals happens during doffing, but that’s precisely because the PPE is very effective at keeping the virus out of HCW’s noses. If they had leaky PPE, they would be getting infected while wearing it. It might be that doffing is 1/50 of the risk of going in unprotected, but at the viral loads in a COVID ICU, you’re that 1/50 is still a huge risk.

For an average person in lower risk environments, proper doffing may be valuable at reducing risk, but I strongly suspect that just wearing a mask cuts risk a whole lot.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:31AM (#22776396)
Viruses aren't anything like indoor air pollution. A partial reduction in air pollution is useful, but it's useless for preventing viral infection. You only need a few hundred viral particles to get sick (if that).

Viruses are still infective after being captured in the mask. Touched the outside of your mask? Go wash your hands. Mess with the mask? Go wash your hands. Does the mask make you touch your face more? That's a huge risk. Does it unseal a little when you talk or move your mouth? Air will go in that way, and virus will come with it.

Moreover, if you are like most people I see on the street, and you push the mask down below your nose or mouth to talk, you are literally putting a super-concentrated source of virus right in front of your face. Most people, most of the time aren't exposed to enough virus to get sick. Breathe through a mask all day long, and then yank it down below your nose, and you're creating a problem. You have to be careful about how you put it on and take it off, especially if you're re-using a mask.

None of this is rocket science, but almost nobody gets it right without training. Even then, it's hard. Half of the reason medical staff wear face shields is to prevent them from screwing with their masks or touching their face. It isn't trivial.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by cameldrv on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:28AM (#22776593)
Viruses are actually quite a bit like indoor air pollution. If you inhale less virus, you're less likely to get infected. Even if you get infected, you're likely to get a milder case with a lower dose of virus.

Viruses may still be infective if captured by the mask, but they're much less likely to infect you. If they're captured by an intermediate layer of the mask, they pose no threat. Even on the surface of the mask, the chance of you being infected by a virus particle that you touch on the surface of a mask when you take it off are overwhelmingly less likely to infect you than virus particles that you breathe in. Of course, when removing a mask, you should sanitize your hands afterwards, which nearly eliminates the risk from virus particles you may have picked up by touching your mask.

You should not pull your mask below your nose. If you do however, the chance of a virus particle coming off the mask and then going into your nose is dramatically less than if you had been breathing in these particles directly.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:18PM (#22775659)
Fucking lol. Do you think that medical workers use some ultra special procedure to get a seal, when they use N95s? This is bog-standard PPE that construction workers and hobbyists have been using effectively for years and years.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by jaclaz on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:53AM (#22777063)
... effectively on dust, that is.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:20AM (#22777175)
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by erentz on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:36PM (#22775210)
Lots of people need to be fired once this is over. This has been known for a long time. There is no excuse for it that stacks up except incompetence. You can argue about funding but being honest and factual is free.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by meowface on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:59PM (#22775339)
I think this is going to be a "thing" in future books. A massive blunder on a historical scale that gets talked about over and over as a "what the fuck were they thinking?" moment. Maybe even worse than "Saddam has WMDs" if empirical evidence can show how many deaths it caused.

It may take some time, but I think people will be held accountable. I think there should be prosecutions if it can be shown any of them knowingly lied, because in that case they would have intentionally caused deaths through the spreading of disinformation. Incredible that experts had to combat deadly disinformation or misinformation from the CDC, WHO, and US Surgeon General. It's as sickening as COVID-19 itself. We're really still living in the Dark Ages.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by sytse on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:03PM (#22775359)
https://www.cato.org/blog/against-noble-lie-covid-19-edition

"Research shows that during disasters, people can show strikingly altruistic behavior, but interventions by authorities can backfire if they fuel mistrust or treat the public as an adversary rather than people who will step up if treated with respect. Given that even homemade masks may work better than no masks, wearing them might be something to direct people to do while they stay at home more, as we all should."

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by meowface on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:19PM (#22775420)
Exactly. All they had to do was send the full, nuanced message rather than treat the public like toddlers who need to be lied to and told fanciful tales in order to be kept in line. They may have directly killed people with this "noble lie". It's truly disgraceful.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by interestica on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:31AM (#22776606)
You should point out that your quote is a quote from an entirely different article and not a direct statement from the piece you linked to (though it is quoted).
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by shawnz on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:50PM (#22775300)
> This has been known for a long time.

Is that true? I don't want to be inflammatory here but as far as I've seen there isn't much research to show that laypeople's use of masks is effective and there have even been some possible mechanisms suggested that could even make it worse than wearing no mask.

And furthermore I don't think that just because healthcare workers are recommended to wear masks that makes it "obvious" that they would be effective for laypeople too. Healthcare workers have full sets of PPE and also strict procedures and facilities for using them/putting them on/taking them off/etc that could potentially nullify the usefulness of that PPE if not followed.

If there really is research to show otherwise then I would be very curious to see it. Most of what I've seen so far specifically focuses on their use by healthcare workers.

EDIT: One promising datapoint for the pro-mask camp is that infection rates do seem to be slowing down in the Czech republic since making mask-wearing mandatory there. For a while there didn't seem to be any change but looking at the data again today, there does seem to be a decrease.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by mantap on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:04PM (#22775362)
It's blindingly obvious. We've known that people with only subclinical symptoms (such as cough) spread this since very early on. People were told to cough into their elbow. We also know that almost nobody coughs into their elbow, even some public health officials have been caught on camera at press conferences coughing into their hands[1]. A cloth mask is surely better than coughing into your hand or worse into the open air.

[1] see this video https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-medical-officer-cough...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by shawnz on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:10PM (#22775385)
Lots of people thought it was obvious that sodium intake caused hypertension, or cholesterol intake caused heart disease. Both ideas were since discredited. I am weary about calling anything in science or medicine "obvious", especially in a time of panic like this
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by meowface on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:24PM (#22775440)
Do you not see how terrible of an analogy that is?
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by shawnz on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:47PM (#22775535)
No? The point is that there were "obvious" mechanisms for why it should be true, but then non-obvious mechanisms which ended up making it false. Without data we can't know the impact of those non-obvious mechanisms.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by meowface on Sunday April 05, 2020 @04:42PM (#22788537)
Yes, there is some truth to that, but there are different forms of obvious. The effects a food or drug may have on the body after being ingested are never truly obvious. The internal workings of the body of an animal are extremely, extremely complex; there are so many factors involved. This is why there's never been any sort of consensus on nutrition.

Meanwhile, if someone were to say "it's obvious that wearing nitrile gloves and properly disposing of them reduces the chance of viruses coming into contact with your bare hands", true, this is not 100% obvious. There are potential failure modes here, there could be some unknown unknowns. But in general, this seems pretty obvious. We've been using gloves for these purposes for millennia. We have no reason to think they're ineffective at preventing harmful particles from touching your bare hands.

The same is true of a face mask. If a virus is likely to infect you by entering your nose or mouth, then covering your nose and mouth is likely to reduce the chance of infection from the virus. This has again been known for millennia. It's the reason why Asian countries have been wearing face masks since the start of the COVID-19 news. It's why every national and global health organization is now advising that people should start wearing masks. And it's evidence that the Surgeon General of the United States very likely knowingly lied to the US public, possibly causing unnecessary deaths.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by shawnz on Monday April 06, 2020 @12:17AM (#22790870)
> "it's obvious that wearing nitrile gloves and properly disposing of them reduces the chance of viruses coming into contact with your bare hands", true, this is not 100% obvious.

I think this is a little bit unfair of an analogy because the question is not really "does it reduce virus particles from coming into contact with your bare hands", the question is really "does it reduce your chances of getting/spreading the virus" which is not so straightforward.

> If a virus is likely to infect you by entering your nose or mouth, then covering your nose and mouth is likely to reduce the chance of infection from the virus.

That mechanism does seem obvious but what if the reduction is only a few percentage points or something? Consider how the virus particles could potentially pass right through many coverings, and they do nothing for your eyes or other bodily openings. It could be totally counteracted by, for example, having virus particles trapped in a moist space in front of your face for hours at a time. I have no idea if that's true but I'm just trying to say, there are plausible mechanisms that could negate the effectiveness of masks outside healthcare settings.

> It's the reason why Asian countries have been wearing face masks since the start of the COVID-19 news.

Asian countries have acquired a culture of wearing face masks based around beliefs, not data. That is not a demonstration of face masks being effective, unless you are trying to say that since implementing such a culture we've seen a reduction in viral infections there. That would indeed be a good argument for masks.

And keep in mind that mask-wearing in Asian countries didn't begin with COVID-19. It has been popular since the SARS outbreak at least.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:59PM (#22775591)
It's not at all clear that coughing directly into a thin t-shirt stretched over your face is "better" than coughing into your elbow or hand, and there's a shortage of medical masks. Moreover, the US also doesn't have a culture of wearing medical masks -- not even a month ago, people were getting attacked on the NYC subway for wearing them.

In other words, the CDC's guidelines were not totally irrational advice.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:25PM (#22775691)
> It's not at all clear that coughing directly into a thin t-shirt stretched over your face is "better" than coughing into your elbow or hand

Yes it is. Are you more likely to subsequently touch other things with your exterior appendages or your face?

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:33PM (#22775742)
I'm not likely to touch things with my elbow, and I put my hands in my pockets and try to avoid touching things, like most people have been doing for a while now.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:35AM (#22776414)
Lol that you dodged the direct question. It's obvious to everyone.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:46AM (#22776448)
I gave you a direct answer: it's pretty easy to ensure that I don't touch things with my hands.

I'm still waiting for you to provide some proof that the t-shirt stretched over your face blocks anything at all.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:08AM (#22776528)
> Are you more likely to subsequently touch other things with your exterior appendages or your face?

Pick one. Exterior appendages, or face?

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by timr on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:37AM (#22776628)
Face, by far. Obviously. (Spit that you eject through a useless mask counts as "face").
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:25AM (#22776971)
> (Spit that you eject through a useless mask counts as "face").

This is such obvious cope. Let's see you spit through a T-shirt. C'mon man, you should feel embarrassed posting this.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by scotty79 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:42AM (#22777266)
Countries that managed to control the epidemic so far all wear masks.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by m0zg on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:49PM (#22775544)
In the last few years, the CDC was fighting "obesity epidemic", "gun violence epidemic", and "systemic racism". I kid you not:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6744a3.htm?s_cid=mm... https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/nioshtic-2/20044567.html

2 of those things aren't diseases. And none of them are contagious. They also did fuck-all for H1N1 epidemic which infected 60 million in the US and claimed five times as many lives here as C19 has so far.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by renewiltord on Saturday April 04, 2020 @02:33AM (#22776614)
I was talking to some folks about the ill-advised CDC and WHO recommendations on masks, the resulting poor handling by the US government, and the rampant cargo-culting by people on Twitter, Reddit, and HN who decided to just signal-amplify the misinformation from US government agencies without critical thought.

While we were doing that, I decided to go see what Taiwan's timeline looked like. Pasting here for your sake.

New Year's Eve: Rumours of viral pneumonia in Wuhan. All inbound flights from Wuhan subject to inspection

Jan 5: All Wuhan travelers exhibiting upper respiratory inspections are now subject to screening

Jan 20: First positive test

Jan 21: Mask export ban, production ramp-up

Jan 31: Taiwanese government forced monopsony on masks (1/3 reserved for healthcare personnel). Announces rationing first week of Feb

Feb 2: Taiwanese defence personnel dispatched to bolster staffing at mask factories

Feb 6: Mask rationing starts

Feb 15: Mask production by end of month projected to be 10 million / day. Taiwanese population: 24 million

Mar 9: Mask production 9.2 million / day

Mar 16: Production 10 million / day

Mar 22: Production 12.6 million / day

April 3. Taiwan: Population 24 million. Density: 649 people/sq.km. First case: Jan 20. Cases: 348. Deaths: 5

April 3. Florida: Population 21.5 million. 136.5 people/sq.km. First case: Mar 7. Cases: 10268. Deaths: 170

Did we have to make the choice between the economy and lives? Did we have to choose between grandma and the dollar? Could policy have changed the outcome?

You decide.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by nojvek on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:34PM (#22781309)
Ramping up PPE and ventilators at the first hint of an infectious disease would have saved tons of lives.

The second thing was closing borders. We wouldn’t need a massive lockdown inside the country if only negatively tested people were coming in.

Airlines would have taken a big hit, yes, but you’d still save the economy. It would be way cheaper to pay the airlines for all their potential lost fare than 20% of the population unemployed.

The president still not wearing mask in public says it all. He won’t take this seriously until he himself gets infected and gets seriously ill. The negligence is atrocious.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by renewiltord on Saturday April 04, 2020 @05:29PM (#22781680)
The President is not a generally competent pandemic-response person. His strengths are elsewhere. But the people who have held the jobs that were intended to be experts on this failed and are failing. The rot is institutional because bureaucrats always outlast elected administrations.

Naturally, the "useful idiots" that the bureaucracy exploits are an additional problem. I haven't yet determined if they're a minor problem or if they provide the weight of opinion. If you have a thousand people who will say "Masks don't work" if the CDC says "Masks don't work" are the thousand people more dangerous or the CDC more dangerous. Probably the CDC, I think.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by collinmanderson on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:28PM (#22775177)
Official Recommendation:

Cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others

- You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick.

- Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities.

- - Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.

- The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.

- Do NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker.

- Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by throw-away_42 on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:42PM (#22775253)
Official Presidential Recommendation:

"You do not have to do it," he said. "I don't think I'm going to be doing it."

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by throwawaysea on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:57PM (#22775328)
Let’s be clear it wasn’t just Trump saying you don’t need masks. Everyone, Democrats and Republicans, both politicians and private individuals, were amplifying the same obvious lies. Why people didn’t trust their own common sense and reality around them is beyond me.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by coolgeek on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:22PM (#22779742)
Let's be clear, that was a quote from Trump yesterday, when he was announcing the recommendation

edit: And to be clear, this wasn't a one-off quote. He made repeated variations of it. At best, he confused the message. At worst, he contradicted it.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by throwawaysea on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:52PM (#22775312)
It is tempting to blame solely the CDC, but I think there is just as much to blame to go around on the general public. Almost everyone was getting on their soapbox on social media to shame people who were wearing masks or trying to acquire a mask.

Yes I know there’s a difference between an N95 respirator and a cloth mask. But that’s beside the point. If the virus can be transmitted over an air gap, then people should be able to buy whatever face covering they want to contain the risk to themselves or their family maximally. And there’s nothing morally wrong with them trying to acquire the highest degree of protection possible, including N95 respirators.

Predictably someone is going to respond to this comment and say that the mask is more necessary for medical professionals or that it is more to prevent particles from exiting your own mouth towards others. The former might be true but it is totally okay for people to want to prioritize their own health. And as for the latter - clearly the reverse transmission is very possible (particles into your mouth/nose) and it is just a matter of time before everyone acknowledges this more openly and starts recommending N95s (most likely once supply constraints are alleviated and the lies are no longer needed).

Just as a reminder: the WHO, possibly at China’s behest, claimed even as late as the middle of January that the virus wasn’t transmissible between humans, a month after Wuhan doctors observed exactly this. It took several weeks for airborne transmission on particles to be acknowledged. And then weeks again to note that the virus can linger on various surfaces and materials.

The lesson to be learned is to trust personal judgment and common sense. Be self reliant, and don’t put faith in random authorities who’ve done little to earn your trust.

EDIT: this article discusses the WHO’s failures in this whole fiasco and how they are a political organization, more than a trustworthy medical organization: https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6...

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by ericb on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:27PM (#22775456)
We've built this "masks should be saved for healthcare workers" strawman ourselves with bad policy.

Masks should be plentiful. Citizens wearing masks also saves healthcare workers!

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:42PM (#22775251)
March 28, a mere six days ago, in response to rumors of an upcoming policy change: "CDC does not have updated guidance scheduled to come out on this topic. See current CDC guidance regarding the use of facemasks"

https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1243947313715961857

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by vehemenz on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:01PM (#22775347)
I have 30 or so surgical masks that I bought in early January (I read the news), but now that consumers can't access those supply chains, I'm afraid to donate extras.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by pureliquidhw on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:42PM (#22775515)
This may be unpopular, but for 30 masks it probably isn't worth the risk to donate. Between interacting and potentially being a carrier, it would be better if you used them yourself going to the grocery store/pharmacy once every other week to prevent spread. You getting infected would cause more of a problem vs the small impact 30 masks would have in a hospital.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by renewiltord on Saturday April 04, 2020 @01:45AM (#22776443)
I was able to donate my masks through a local healthcare worker. They can still use it. The thing to remember is that mask reuse is possible and a damned good idea.

Btw, as usual there's more misinformation as to what masks healthcare workers will find useful.

People will tell you that you can't share those because they're contaminated - wrong! I already did so in a fully informed manner.

People will tell you that you can't reuse - wrong! You absolutely can reuse. Keep eight. Keep them separate. Do not allow contact of anything with the inside. Keep them face up in an isolated area. One every day of the week.

In fact, I'm just a random person. Don't trust me. Don't trust the agencies. Follow the actions people are taking that are working. Follow the evidence.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by numpad0 on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:25PM (#22775693)
That masks would have to be considered contaminated anyway under the current(far from apocalyptic) circumstances
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by sjg007 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:09AM (#22776928)
You can order from China but shipments take a month....
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by beaunative on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:01PM (#22775598)
CDC lied because people will panic buy, see what happened with toilet paper, it got ample supply, but still cant handle people buying them for year round quantity. They suspect our healthcare system will crash in a blink if people were panic buying masks either because medical professionals were in strike or sick
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by colmvp on Friday April 03, 2020 @10:20PM (#22775663)
There's already a massive shortage of masks so I don't what lying about it and then changing stances during a crisis is supposed to accomplish.

But given their failure with Covid testing early on, it doesn't surprise me to see them bungle.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by collinmanderson on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:27PM (#22775171)
This is really good.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:28PM (#22775176)
Right? FINALLY. I hope that people don't need too much convincing after having been checks notes lied to by the public health authorities.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by armenarmen on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:35PM (#22775205)
2 weeks ago: "don't buy masks because they won't keep you from getting sick and doctors need them to keep from getting sick. Plus you probably wouldn't understand how to use something as complicated as a mask anyway"
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by exolymph on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:27PM (#22775170)
Real title is too long, so I tried for something shorter but similarly informative.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by mnm1 on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:39PM (#22775228)
About fucking time. It's impossible to know how many people the previous advice cost. Or how much trust was lost.
Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by m0zg on Friday April 03, 2020 @09:58PM (#22775584)
What's going to really cook your noodle is when the CDC admits that the Trump pills work, which by all accounts they do, but you won't find it in the press: everything is very carefully suppressed.

https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-s...

Doesn't matter what they say, doctors worldwide are using them anyway, in spite of the absence of rigorous, multi-year, double blind, randomized studies.

It'll probably take another week or two for them to not be able to sweep this under the rug anymore.

Re:CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks) by nojvek on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:40PM (#22781344)
I’m getting messages from Whatsapp groups. Taking a hot shower or sitting in a hot tub kills the virus. Drinking Eucalyptus with vodka gives you immunity. Millions of people are doing it and doctors are recommending it.

It’s not clinically tried but it works. Otherwise why would others do it? /s