A year or so ago we moved 20 minutes from my office. Some stuff happened with management etc that they wanted people to at least come in a couple days if possible. So I did. Being only 20 minutes away I didn't mind it as much. I had also been migrated to a new team that I really got along with. We lunch together, we shoot the shit if things are chill, I get pulled in on more interesting projects because I'm right there and if I hear someone talking about something I know I'd be helpful on I chime in "Hey, I can help with that" - things I'd have missed out on getting to do if I were at home waiting for someone to send me a Jira ticket or mention it during morning standup. I also have more visibility with our VPs and directors.
Anyway, IMO, WFH is fantastic - especially when you live far away - but some office face time is also great. Good for people, good for careers. I feel incredibly fortunate to have stumbled into a position where I have the option to WFH, but also enjoy 3 or 4 days in the office.
WFH is right that autonomy is good (being away from a boss) and commutes are bad, but denying the social nature of our species when work (for better or worse) consumes so much time is ludicrous.
I used to have that, my office changed location to 1h commute and the 2 days of wfh still mean more commute time than no wfh previously.
I've had 50minutes commute before, but it was just one uninterrupted subway ride which meant I could follow some online courses, but 1h of commute that involves 2x 10 minutes walks and 2 subway changes, its just hell.
I feel that the bank just had to let people with 2 wfh days, lest people quit en mass.
I think the key is to create lacunae in the office that allow the culture to form. Watercoolers or smoke breaks or 100% informal happy hour beers, etc. Once leadership makes it "a thing" it loses its dynamic.
A friend and I are starting to do "workcations" several times per year (he typically works in office, I work 100% remotely).
We go somewhere, work our during the day then go do something in the evenings - typically skiing or mountain biking. It's an amazing setup. We both typically get more done at work, because we're focused and wanting to get to our evening activity. 4 hours of skiing or biking in the evening is more than enough (especially when we do it 8 days straight).
That is one perk, I will never give up. Working on a 100% remote team has made me care about vacation days much less. Instead of taking a 3 to 4 day trip somewhere, I'll simply take a full week and work during the day (possibly still taking some time off.)
Many of the midwest hills near major cities have night skiing nearly every day of the week.
Steamboat is probably the most well known "big resort".
EDIT: probably the most compelling reason to go into the office is that the company hasn't made working remotely an optimized experience.
I have the option to work remotely and in the office (office is 20 minutes away when there's no traffic), I prefer going into the office when my work requires collabing with a colleague (dev work). But when I'm working on stuff solo I prefer to work from home, as there are no distractions there. I think I get more done in half a day at home than I normally do in a full-day at work.
This is what I do today. I eat lunch with my wife and kids, and I am always home for breakfast and dinner, but I have space to focus on work (it is crucial IMHO to separate your work and home spaces, based on six years of remote work) and an area to have meetings if needed. There is no reason this model can't scale up; less WeWork, more Mr Money Mustache's coworking space [1]. Some travel might be required occasionally, but I've found all remote roles and orgs experience this; it's the entry ticket for having an amazingly higher quality of life compared to an "on site" role.
Alternatively, I know people who work 8-9 hours in an office complex with 100 mile round trip commutes. Hard pass. You want help building a coworking space? I will help you build a coworking space. This is the future of work.
That's pretty much my situation. On top of that, we have 8-person rooms (as opposed to hangar-like open space) and plenty of bigger and smaller conference/private work rooms for times when you want to isolate yourself. Add excellent coffee (no free food though - this is Europe, free food is not widely adopted here yet). Working in such office is pretty cool and even though I have option to work remotely 100% of the time, I still come to the office 3 or 4 times a week.
The average commute is 26.9 minutes, and that is heavily skewed by metropolitan areas. Some data here[1].
Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point.
Obviously, the best case scenario is to allow workers to decide what they want to do. Picking the form of work that fits your personality, your career, your home life, your values, etc and then trying to force that on 300+ million people is absurd. The good news is that a substantial amount of people do get to choose[2].
[1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/wo...
[2] https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/206033/america-comin...
So already that is, on average, 1 hour lost per commuting. A huge portion would have commutes worse than that. That data would always be skewed by metro areas - that is where most people live, and where housing would force people to take long commutes.
> Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point.
Why would you argue this, if in the very first sentence of your reply, you stated the worst case "doesn't really tell us anything?"
Back to the straw-man point - no one is suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything. Just pointing out why many would like an option to WFH whereas others may not. I agree overall that more choice and flexibility is good.
For example, my commute is about 40 minutes door to door. But I walk to work and listen to podcasts as I go so I'm getting some light exercise and catching up on things I want to listen to. If I didn't do these as part of my commute, I'd have to find other time to do them. I also find it helpful mentally to have a "transition" time between home and work to get ready for my day or wind down after work when things are getting more stressful, and I've heard others say the same.
Friends who commute to work on the train use the time to read books or sleep. Again, if they didn't do these things then, they'd need to find some other time to do them so the actual amount of lost time is pretty small.
I think it's a mistake to claim something as subjective as a fact.
To me it's lost and that's that. I don't want to isolate myself with music or podcasts. I dislike earplugs because they make my ears hurt, I don't want to lug around big headphones, I like it when I can put everything I need for going out in my pockets, and I also don't process learning material well while I am physically moving (or waiting for my transport to move me around).
You simply made the best out of your way of life and that's cool. Just don't assume everyone else wants to do the same.
To me all time spent going from point A to point B -- in a work setting, mind you, I quite like travelling outside of work -- is lost in a meaningless way.
Same here, they also set off my tinnitus.
Seems pretty close minded. All of the things you mention can be achieved on a commute. Leave your computer in the office and don’t isolate yourself with music or podcasts on the walk.
You might call it close-minded which is not a productive way to discuss. I call it a preference, one I had a long time to realise I was having. I tried being productive on commutes, never liked it and it was even making me tired very quickly.
Nitpicking on the format of my comment like you are doing isn't helpful though so let's just stop. :)
It also gives me the chance to explore a bit on my way home (since I don't have time constraints).
Here's a great study about the complexity of associating well-being and commuting:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11116-019-09983-9...
Whether your commute sucks depends on the direct context: modes of transport, time of day,... But it also depends on why you ended up choosing to accept the commute and the trade-offs you made that made you end up in that position.
The study does report that longer commutes have a clear negative impact on subjective well-being. Sure, it's nice to read or sleep on a train or bus. But if you're spending 3 hours a day between doors, you're not spending that time on other, deeply personal, pursuits: taking care of your kids, taking a walk through the park, spending time with family or friends, cooking a proper meal for yourself, working out, etc. etc.
Tons of people spend hours on the road or in the train between urban centers and suburban areas. Why? Because the former is where they'd find the job they need to be able to afford to live in the latter. That's how you come to see things like "sleeper" or "commuter" towns: partly deserted areas where a large part of the population has gone away for the day. Which, of course, impacts local economy and social structures.
Modern commuting is a relatively new evolution. Historically, work and home life bled into one another and people lived close to their work, depending on the context. There were absolutely obvious drawbacks, but you'd also see that society consisted of local communities with a strong social cohesion. Modern commuting is a side effect of the rise of the modern workplace from the early to mid-20th century on.
Commuting is also caused by a process called gentrification: the renovation of urban neighborhoods, and as a result the influx of a more wealthy demographic pushing out the poorer strata who can't afford housing anymore. Let's not forget that some modern hip and famous urban neighborhoods in New York, San Fransisco, Paris, Berlin or London historically used to be ghetto's where poor and destitute lived in tenamments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification
Now, I don't think that a single flu epidemic or a recession is going to suddenly change how we are going to live and work overnight. Instead, I think we'll rather see profound changes over the course of the next 50 years as populations are ageing and our very lifestyle and Modern Way of Living - including commuting, views on family choices and high education levels - will (and already is) spawning fundamental and existential questions among young people.
Second thing, not everybody has a need or even a want to be around people during their work day. I have horrible ADD, socializing at work means I get nothing done. Further why do you get less promotions and pay and why does team comradery suffer? I can’t see a correlation between WFH and those items you listed.
I get the impression that much of the non-core software dev has already been sent to India. Much of what's left is core to the business and highly speed/quality sensitive, less price sensitive. Some of it even got offshored then reshored when management realized that time/language/culture/etc issues impose a variety of real costs that may or may not be acceptable depending on the project.
That said, a decade is a long time from now.
(Mind you, we avoided actual teleconferences like the plague, but even sending an email was problematic: "yeah, this needs to go to A in Malaysia. God forbid that it then needs to go to B in USA, and then to C in Europe, because that's two whole days until you get a reply, minimum". Persuading people to work night shifts didn't quite work, either.)
Sure, but that doesn't mean they're communicating in the same way. You've got to learn (or unlearn) cultural aspects, too.
Then throw in the timezone difference, and a clear level-of-effort difference aka "case of the fuck-its", and you get a workflow that is entirely different from the local office.
We got around the time difference by offshoring in Latin America, who are on the same timezones.
All of our employees loved being able to WRF or get an office wherever they needed, especially sales who could meet in a local space close to their meetings for that day.
Yet another YIMBY argument in disguise.
Plus the MMM guy calculated that each mile you shave off of your commute saves you like ~700 bucks a year (driving). I haven't owned a car for 3+ years so that's moot to me, but the not-having-a-car cost savings have been fantastic.
The office is 5-20 minutes away. There is a good work culture. You have friends at the office. You can easily go home for a quick errand at lunch. WFH wouldn't be as appealing.
Now consider:
The office is 1 hour away on a good day. Traffic is very frustrating. Parking is expensive, same with transit which is hard to get an hour away. You get home at 6 if you're lucky. After 2 frustrating commutes and a rough day at work, and having to wake up very early to make the commute, you don't feel like working out. You get the point.