This is a straw-man - I didn't propose the worst case. There are many cases which are far worse.

So already that is, on average, 1 hour lost per commuting. A huge portion would have commutes worse than that. That data would always be skewed by metro areas - that is where most people live, and where housing would force people to take long commutes.

> Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point.

Why would you argue this, if in the very first sentence of your reply, you stated the worst case "doesn't really tell us anything?"

Back to the straw-man point - no one is suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything. Just pointing out why many would like an option to WFH whereas others may not. I agree overall that more choice and flexibility is good.

I think it's a mistake to view all commuting time as "lost".

For example, my commute is about 40 minutes door to door. But I walk to work and listen to podcasts as I go so I'm getting some light exercise and catching up on things I want to listen to. If I didn't do these as part of my commute, I'd have to find other time to do them. I also find it helpful mentally to have a "transition" time between home and work to get ready for my day or wind down after work when things are getting more stressful, and I've heard others say the same.

Friends who commute to work on the train use the time to read books or sleep. Again, if they didn't do these things then, they'd need to find some other time to do them so the actual amount of lost time is pretty small.

> * I think it's a mistake to view all commuting time as "lost".*

I think it's a mistake to claim something as subjective as a fact.

To me it's lost and that's that. I don't want to isolate myself with music or podcasts. I dislike earplugs because they make my ears hurt, I don't want to lug around big headphones, I like it when I can put everything I need for going out in my pockets, and I also don't process learning material well while I am physically moving (or waiting for my transport to move me around).

You simply made the best out of your way of life and that's cool. Just don't assume everyone else wants to do the same.

To me all time spent going from point A to point B -- in a work setting, mind you, I quite like travelling outside of work -- is lost in a meaningless way.

> I dislike earplugs because they make my ears hurt,

Same here, they also set off my tinnitus.

==To me it’s lost and that’s that==

Seems pretty close minded. All of the things you mention can be achieved on a commute. Leave your computer in the office and don’t isolate yourself with music or podcasts on the walk.

You seem to miss the point. I want to achieve certain amount of things done during my day. Commuting is a completely empty time for me since I can't use it to invest in education, nor do I like sitting around waiting to arrive to somewhere.

You might call it close-minded which is not a productive way to discuss. I call it a preference, one I had a long time to realise I was having. I tried being productive on commutes, never liked it and it was even making me tired very quickly.

The phrase, “to me it’s lost and that’s that”, doesn’t really imply there is a productive discussion to be had. You found what works for you, congrats. Loads of other people are in the middle-ground trying to find out what might work for them.

I have given my conclusion at the start and then elaborated on it which seems like I'm at least explaining my point of view.

Nitpicking on the format of my comment like you are doing isn't helpful though so let's just stop. :)

What about the vast majority of people driving to work instead of using public transport? I agree with the posts below, commuting is a waste of my time I’m expected to pay for. Another way to look at it, why are we generating all these pollutants to run our transportation systems twice a day for people who are either incapable of working at home or need some sort of social interaction while at work (the most ridiculous pro office work argument I’ve seen today so far)

This is really important! I really enjoyed my 30-minute walking commute. It didn't feel like wasted time: I got exercise and time to think and all of that stuff.

It also gives me the chance to explore a bit on my way home (since I don't have time constraints).

Best commute I ever had was a 1 hour cycle that was mostly uphill and into the prevailing wind in the morning.

It's a mistake to limit your view towards either of both stances.

Here's a great study about the complexity of associating well-being and commuting:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11116-019-09983-9...

Whether your commute sucks depends on the direct context: modes of transport, time of day,... But it also depends on why you ended up choosing to accept the commute and the trade-offs you made that made you end up in that position.

The study does report that longer commutes have a clear negative impact on subjective well-being. Sure, it's nice to read or sleep on a train or bus. But if you're spending 3 hours a day between doors, you're not spending that time on other, deeply personal, pursuits: taking care of your kids, taking a walk through the park, spending time with family or friends, cooking a proper meal for yourself, working out, etc. etc.

Tons of people spend hours on the road or in the train between urban centers and suburban areas. Why? Because the former is where they'd find the job they need to be able to afford to live in the latter. That's how you come to see things like "sleeper" or "commuter" towns: partly deserted areas where a large part of the population has gone away for the day. Which, of course, impacts local economy and social structures.

Modern commuting is a relatively new evolution. Historically, work and home life bled into one another and people lived close to their work, depending on the context. There were absolutely obvious drawbacks, but you'd also see that society consisted of local communities with a strong social cohesion. Modern commuting is a side effect of the rise of the modern workplace from the early to mid-20th century on.

Commuting is also caused by a process called gentrification: the renovation of urban neighborhoods, and as a result the influx of a more wealthy demographic pushing out the poorer strata who can't afford housing anymore. Let's not forget that some modern hip and famous urban neighborhoods in New York, San Fransisco, Paris, Berlin or London historically used to be ghetto's where poor and destitute lived in tenamments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

Now, I don't think that a single flu epidemic or a recession is going to suddenly change how we are going to live and work overnight. Instead, I think we'll rather see profound changes over the course of the next 50 years as populations are ageing and our very lifestyle and Modern Way of Living - including commuting, views on family choices and high education levels - will (and already is) spawning fundamental and existential questions among young people.

Two things, your source for travel times puts average San Diego commute at 26 minutes. It’s more like 1 hour minimum depending on what time of day you leave. I’d question the accuracy of this data even though it’s gov data. It looks like you picked the best case here yourself.

Second thing, not everybody has a need or even a want to be around people during their work day. I have horrible ADD, socializing at work means I get nothing done. Further why do you get less promotions and pay and why does team comradery suffer? I can’t see a correlation between WFH and those items you listed.