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Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by tartoran on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:44AM (#22267783)
Perfect timing to switch browsers!
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by neltnerb on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:46AM (#22267808)
I spent an hour yesterday with two different websites trying to place an order on Firefox (to name and shame, CVS and shutterfly). I eventually gave up and used Chrome to place an order, but sent a note telling CVS that they lost my business because their website is broken on Firefox.

Please, more people switch to Firefox. Chrome is breaking the internet.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by _bxg1 on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:50AM (#22267874)
Something I realized recently is that all of these sites have analytics. They can see exactly what percentage of their users are on Firefox, and that will directly drive their dev priorities. Using Firefox isn't just a symbolic gesture; it's a direct vote in its favor.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by dexen on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:02PM (#22268040)
>all of these sites have analytics.

The analytics is most likely blocked by common adblock rules. And present-day Firefox users are quite likely to be advanced users, running adblock.

Thus Firefox ends up being under-represented in the analytics.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by ohazi on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:07PM (#22268123)
Do as blockers typically block the user agent? Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs?

Or have user agents devolved to the point where every browser lists every other browser and you genuinely can't tell them apart anymore?

Seems like you should still be able to identify the browser without a fancy analytics package.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by PeterisP on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:47PM (#22268595)
> have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs?

Yes.

On the other hand, if you're running adblock, many sites probably don't care how and if the site works for you.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by marcosdumay on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:19PM (#22268982)
Sites that are directly taking your money should care. Or, at least, I would expect them to, but they don't seem to care at all.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by dblohm7 on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:45PM (#22268576)
> Or have people just gotten lazy and only bother looking at JavaScript generated analytics logs and not actual server logs?

Yes

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by matthewbauer on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:02PM (#22268044)
Recently there has been a push to remove user agents since it tends to make tracking easier. You should make sure firefox is still identifiable.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by thdrdt on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:04PM (#22268069)
Well because a lot of Firefox users block analytics they won't show up in the stats.

And by the way: it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by hastes on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:06PM (#22268100)
> it is estimated that 60% of all internet users block analytics. So take your stats with a grain of salt.

Source?

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by krn on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:57AM (#22267979)
> Please, more people switch to Firefox. Chrome is breaking the internet.

I have tried to switch to Firefox multiple times, but I couldn't stand how much slower it felt than Brave, especially on Android. I also prefer the minimalistic interface of Chromium, and run Brave with its "Rewards" feature turned off.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by neltnerb on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:47PM (#22269256)
Oh, I meant on my desktop. I use Firefox Focus or Firefox Preview on my phone and if Focus doesn't work I've yet to personally find Firefox Preview to be slow.

YMMV of course. Firefox has a long way to go it seems on mobile.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by digitarald on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:26PM (#22268369)
Please report those via webcompat.com – Firefox's compat team will always follow up and learn more how to close the platform gap that causes the issues but also reach out to the devs.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by ycombonator on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:58AM (#22267989)
CVS is an outsourced shop, stripped to the bone. All their IT jobs have left Rhode Island over the years to be replaced by “managed services”. It’s highly unlikely they will read your feedback.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by jlmorton on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:55AM (#22267950)
Possible you have strict tracking protection enabled? Firefox is pretty clear this may break some websites.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by neltnerb on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:44PM (#22269204)
Nah, I don't set it to strict, and turned off the new Enhanced Tracking Prevention that's on by default. And all extensions were either disabled or set to permit everything on both sites. But I didn't reset my browser or start it in safe mode just to give a company my business.

It is totally possible that the "problem is on my side" but they still lost my business. There's only so much effort I'm willing to put into purchasing from a company if I can't use their website. Most places work fine, both of these didn't. I normally just find a company that has a better website to give my money to instead.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by driverdan on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:54PM (#22268691)
Are you sure something isn't wrong on your end? The only time I have trouble is when NoScript breaks things and that's to be expected.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by neltnerb on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:39PM (#22269159)
No, not sure, but I disabled adblock, cookie deletion, noscript, cross-website cookie trackers, etc. Pretty much disabled every extension in my efforts with no luck.

It's possible it would have eventually worked if I started the browser in safe mode or something, but this doesn't seem reasonable to me to do to be able to give them money.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by Scarbutt on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:49AM (#22267860)
Is likely they know this and the costs of supporting firefox doesn't outweigh the benefits for them.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by diag on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:03PM (#22268052)
What's the benefit of breaking services for a subset of your customers? I can't think of any.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by snazz on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:29PM (#22268391)
They’re not intentionally breaking anything, they’re just making it work exclusively with Chromium by not testing under Firefox. It saves them time and money.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:54AM (#22267925)
I will switch to Firefox as soon as I am convinced it is a better option. It has been my experience that it is slower and more broken than Chrome, and despite promises of respecting users has a history violating user trust. Plus, there was that one time they fired a guy for having a fetish.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by sdegutis on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:49AM (#22267866)
I generally use Safari for everything and Chrome+Safari+Firefox when developing. When on Mac, Safari just feels the smoothest and seems lightest on battery.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by spurgu on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:37PM (#22268494)
I actually tried Safari last night (tried it for a day or two a couple of months ago as well). Is it just me or has everything about the extensions changed? They're only available from the App store? I tried to install Bitwarden but got sent to download the desktop app.

And overall the extension landscape looks highly bleak. What are the recommended adblockers? I found Ghostery Lite (which according to the reviews seems quite disappointing) and a number of paid adblockers...

From my test some while back there at least seemed to be a decent number of extensions out there but now it's different. Why?

Edit: The Bitwarden extension seems to have been installed automatically along with the desktop app.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by sdegutis on Friday February 07, 2020 @05:15PM (#22271670)
I don't use any Safari extensions.

Regarding ad blockers, my solution has just been to stop using the internet so much. I almost exclusively use it for work now. So I run into almost no websites with ads.

I heartily recommend going internet free except during work hours, and using the library for the rest. It's been such an amazing life improvement for us, we wish that on everyone.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by spurgu on Friday February 07, 2020 @06:59PM (#22272502)
Had you said that 6 months (or even 6 days) ago I would've laughed it off but right now I actually agree.

Laughing foremost because I'd certainly be asking the wrong guy as I'd expect most HN guys to be power users. Not laughing because I recognize the huge potential of waste of time the internet brings along, that I hadn't really seriously considered until recently, had just figured it's half necessary to keep myself up to speed with things. We really don't need to be up to speed with things, outside of work at least, and if work is stressing us to the point where it becomes uncomfortable we should simply just change our work.

I do however like to be efficient in whatever I do so I would still like a convenient way of browsing the web, but... in the big picture it's not that important, especially if you leave out the time consuming stuff. Then it's mostly looking up stuff, which you can do using whatever tools.

In a couple of months I will be cutting off most of those time consuming tasks, whether that's FB, Reddit, HN, following politics, mindlessly looking for entertainment/escape. It's a life choice and I'm really looking forward to it.

For work I simply use Chrome and will keep it that way. Simple, easy, compatible, not fighting the mainstream. For private browsing though I would prefer to use something more.. personal. Brave works fine, currently trying out Cliqz. And I've tried out Next and Qutebrowser the last two days. Being a geek/ADHD I guess. There are more important things in life. Meditation helps. So does sailing. And not ranting on HN.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by sdegutis on Saturday February 08, 2020 @04:40PM (#22278591)
I've been internet free for almost a year and a half, and it's wonderful. My ADHD has entirely gone away. I'm reading anywhere from 30-60 minutes every day. It sounds like you're on a similar path. I'll pray for you that it all goes well. If I were you, I wouldn't delay it much longer, things tend to get in the way and make us put off important life changes.

> In a couple of months I will be cutting off most of those time consuming tasks, whether that's FB, Reddit, HN, following politics, mindlessly looking for entertainment/escape. It's a life choice and I'm really looking forward to it.

Forgot which book it was, Sinner's Guide or Philothea, but the author said that Hercules went off into a lonely area to debate with himself what kind of life he ought to life, and he concluded that a life of virtue is the only one living. Your statement reminded me of it because (a) it's purely a choice of the will, which is the only thing we really have control over, and the only thing we own that nobody else has control over; and (b) he went off away from the busyness of the world in order to have an opportunity to think about his life and how he should live it.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by spurgu on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:48PM (#22268620)
And re: extensions in the App store, it doesn't seem to have a search function...
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:35PM (#22268468)
Firefox is even worse on DOM microbenchmarks and in many others. It really only shines in WASM performance. [1]

It's unlikely that you will notice the difference anyway, few websites manipulate that many DOM elements at interactive rates. Those would be much better off with Canvas, which is also way slower on Firefox.

[1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=chrome-8...

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by leeoniya on Friday February 07, 2020 @03:16PM (#22270406)
> This round of tests was under an Ubuntu 20.04 snapshot

in my experience, both browsers performed very differently under Windows than under Linux (Manjaro). both mozilla and google clearly spend more time optimizing for the overwhelmingly more common user (Windows).

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Saturday February 08, 2020 @02:25PM (#22277792)
In my experience, these differences I mentioned exist on Windows as well, I just don't have any other numbers readily at hand.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by azhenley on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:45AM (#22267796)
Any suggestions? Brave comes to mind but it seems to have some controversy around it.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by eganist on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:47AM (#22267826)
The only controversy around Brave is around Eich and his own personal beliefs. But honestly, if you can get past that, the team backing it is one of the strongest and most pro-user browser teams today. I'm particularly biased in favor of their security engineering.

That said, I still prefer Firefox because Firefox isn't Blink.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by pedrocr on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:54AM (#22267938)
The only controversy I've actually read about Brave is their replacement of the site's ads with ones they've sourced themselves. But maybe they've stopped doing that now?
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by BrendanEich on Friday February 14, 2020 @01:16PM (#22328736)
We never started, and we wouldn't do it without publisher as partner that gets paid (70%, same as users get for user ads). Why did you think we did "replacement"?
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by 101404 on Sunday February 09, 2020 @06:28PM (#22285071)
Switched to Brave recently. Haven't seen any ads.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by jfk13 on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:56AM (#22267968)
Whatever doubts I have about Brave would mainly relate to the business model; I guess time will tell whether they've figured out the right approach.

Oh, and there's my desire to push back against browser engine monoculture, which I believe is bad for the Web.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by the_duke on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:53AM (#22267912)
> I'm particularly biased in favor of their security engineering.

How so? Has Brave introduced security related features that are not in Chromium?

That would indeed be impressive, considering the amount of developers working on Chrome.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by eganist on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:55AM (#22267953)
Just by default, the blocking of ad networks is useful for minimizing malware delivery vectors. But beyond that, it's mostly just how many times I've seen Yan and team stay on top of security risks in real time when I crash the brave office.

So there's a bit of insider knowledge there, yes.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by TimTheTinker on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:49AM (#22267857)
Is there still controversy surrounding Eich? I thought (hoped?) that was over years ago.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by dave5104 on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:59AM (#22267996)
As a gay man, I don't think I'll ever be able to like that guy. He spent money to try and prevent me from getting married.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:45PM (#22268570)
Suppose you believed that California with gay marriage would receive a similar fate to Sodom or Gomorrah, what's morally wrong with spending the money to try and avert that fate? It's nothing personal.

You probably believe in curtailing certain personal freedoms for other reasons and you are morally justified to do so. Again, nothing personal.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by dave5104 on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:16PM (#22268940)
I'm going to ignore your crazy theory that California might be subject to biblical catastrophe.

> You probably believe in curtailing certain personal freedoms for other reasons and you are morally justified to do so. Again, nothing personal.

The key difference is that I don't want to limit personal freedoms for a specific class of people. That's when it does get personal.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Saturday February 08, 2020 @02:35PM (#22277852)
> I'm going to ignore your crazy theory that California might be subject to biblical catastrophe.

That's not "a theory" I have, that's a sincere belief that religious person might have. Had you been born a century earlier, it probably wouldn't have seemed so crazy to you.

> The key difference is that I don't want to limit personal freedoms for a specific class of people.

You probably do, but you'd just arbitrarily define what is and isn't a (protected) class of people, so I'll leave it at that.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by jshevek on Friday February 07, 2020 @03:29PM (#22270555)
I'm confused by this argument.

Of course the steps from 'insane belief' and 'act perceived as immoral' can involve specific steps of reasoning which seem morally correct within the context of the insane belief. That's not the point, not a good justification for the act, and not something that we as a society should tolerate.

Some kind of incompetence, delusion, or misunderstanding is very often the cause of an immoral act.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Saturday February 08, 2020 @02:42PM (#22277885)
It's not only "morally correct" within the context of the belief, it's not immoral in the general context. Doing a wrong thing based on false information but in good faith is not morally wrong. At the very least, you must accept innocence on ground of insanity.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by driverdan on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:58PM (#22268737)
You'd be an asshole for trying to impose your personal beliefs on others.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by gridlockd on Saturday February 08, 2020 @02:43PM (#22277889)
We're imposing our personal beliefs on everyone all the time, it's just that those beliefs are shared 99% of the time, so we don't notice.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by eganist on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:50AM (#22267873)
People dig it up from time to time on Twitter.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by 101404 on Sunday February 09, 2020 @06:33PM (#22285096)
Scary times we live in.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by freehunter on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:02PM (#22268042)
I’m sure the 1.3 million gay residents of California [1] won’t easily forget how much Eich hates them. That kind of stink doesn’t wash away.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite...

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by TimTheTinker on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:12PM (#22268178)
I don’t see how one could conclude Eich has any hate for anyone based on one political donation 12 years ago.

Gay men and women who had worked alongside and under Eich for years at Mozilla were appalled at the controversy and said he had always treated them kindly and was a great friend.

I see how this thread maybe isn’t helpful — except that it demonstrates that people still have hard feeling towards him (though I doubt anyone who knew him personally would, gay or not). But it’s bringing up the old controversy yet again. Sorry.

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by jfk13 on Friday February 07, 2020 @04:12PM (#22271013)
Do you seriously believe that (as of the time of the prop 8 vote in 2008), 52% of the California electorate actually hated those 1.3 million residents?

Can you not imagine that it's possible to disagree with someone on social issues without hating them?

Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by Scarbutt on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:50AM (#22267876)
All the security is done by Google, do you mean their "privacy" engineering?
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by zelly on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:46AM (#22267825)
Brave is Chromium with a different settings page.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by BrendanEich on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:05PM (#22329278)
Wrong: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-... -- and that is just what we strip and stub. We add other value, but in any case, your "... with a different settings page" statement is on its face false.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by anon73044 on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:47AM (#22267831)
Firefox + uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger Works on Windows, Linux and Android. Don't know about Apple products, but I assume it works on those also.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by mwilliaams on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:58AM (#22267983)
Firefox works for me. It’s lighter than chrome ever since the rebuild they did a few years ago.
Re:Chrome 80 Is 30% Slower Than Chrome 75 by enumjorge on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:46AM (#22267821)
Firefox?