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Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by ThrustVectoring on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @05:06PM (#21925110)
At the aggregate level, every trade deficit is a capital inflow. IMO, talking about this in terms of capital flows is far more illuminating - over the last few decades, massive amounts of money has flowed into the US, primarily seeking the perceived safety of the dollar. The narrowing of the deficit is pretty worrying to me, since the privileged position brings a ton of benefits to the US.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by EGreg on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @10:26PM (#21926457)
That’s because a thorough analysis would need to include Dollars as US exports. That’s our biggest one in fact.

Bretton Woods has led to a US life of luxury and the economists’ joke that the American consumer drives the world economy. It was a nice run. But once we have to print money to service the astronomical debt, it will devalue both the treasuries and the dollar, reducing our purchasing power and putting us to work for others — like they have been doing for us.

Let’s hope we have robots and automation by then :)

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by gscott on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @11:42PM (#21926697)
China has printed more money then any country in history. There is just not many good choices other than the U.S Dollar.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by Scarblac on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:36AM (#21927801)
It's a country of two billion people that grew from mostly rural to partly very modern in very short time. Of course they need a much larger money supply than before.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by s_Hogg on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:09AM (#21926751)
Source?
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by gscott on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:31AM (#21926806)
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @11:37PM (#21926682)
Japan has been in worse debt than the US with much worse demographics for 30 years, and they're somehow doing just fine. I think we have plenty of legs still.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by yaantc on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @04:49AM (#21927404)
The Japan government has a huge debt. But it is mostly owned by Japanese people and firms. If you look at the whole Japan country, state, people and companies together Japan is not in debt, but is a net creditor. So very different from the US as a whole.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by wahern on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:12AM (#21927741)
The Social Security Trust Fund used to soak up most of the U.S. deficit, but it switched to net outflows 1 or 2 years ago.

For the past 5 months the Federal Reserve has increased its treasury holdings by $250 billion[1], after selling them steadily for the past 2 years as part of QE reversal. Everything I've read said that the recent inability for the Treasury to clear short-term bonds is a technical issue. But I wonder if these two matters are purely coincidental. Perhaps the removal of the SS Trust Fund buffer is starting to catch up with our massive and dramatically increasing (since the Trump tax cut) deficits? Any linkage would have to be indirect, I suppose, but still....

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TREAST

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by dnautics on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:23AM (#21926921)
I wouldn't say that. They have been suffering from a lost decade that has lasted 30 years. Social stagnation is the highest it's ever been. Yes, there is still a lot of social cohesion but that's maybe just... because they're japanese? Japan is the country where fining families for an suicide that stops the train works because suicidal individuals don't want to inconvenience their families.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by adrianN on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @04:11AM (#21927329)
Japan is also a country with excellent infrastructure, low crime, clean streets, and great universities.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by chrischen on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:13AM (#21927605)
“Lost decade” relative to previous growth. Relative yo the rest of the world they were and still are far ahead.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by deepsun on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:20AM (#21927623)
Nope, trade deficit is capital outflow. US spends dollars (or gold reserves) to buy goods that are mostly consumed.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by hylaride on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:41AM (#21927954)
But those dollars need to be spent and the easiest place to either spend or stash them is back in the US.

Also, the trade deficit doesn’t measure services, of which the US has a surplus last I checked.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by jrs95 on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @11:40PM (#21926690)
This is sort of ignoring who has the dollars though. Reduced wages for U.S. workers for cheap and often disposable goods where the profits go to rich foreign investors doesn't really sound like a win to me regardless of the capital flow.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by ThomPete on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:11AM (#21926753)
The lowest wages are finally rising faster than managers. Also of importance is that the administration is actually deregulating. One new rule means 8 old goes out. On top of that finally dealing with China.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by TaylorAlexander on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:49AM (#21926846)
Do you have a source for the claim that low wages are rising more quickly than that of the managers? That would be good news if true.

I’ve heard wages are very low. 44% of Americans earn $18,000/yr.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by caseysoftware on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:25AM (#21926927)
There's lots of sources around it:

From March 2019: "The recent jump in paychecks has come with an unusual characteristic, as workers at the lower end of the pay scale are getting the greater benefit."

Ref: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/workers-at-lower-end-of-pay-...

From October 2019: "According to analysis by Nick Bunker, an economist with the jobs site Indeed, wage growth is currently strongest for workers in low-wage industries, such as clothing stores, supermarkets, amusement parks, and casinos. And earnings are growing most slowly in higher-wage industries, such as medical labs, law firms, and broadcasting and telecom companies."

Ref: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/labor-depa...

And Goldman Sachs says the same as of November, check out page 7 specifically: https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages/outlook-2020-f/U...

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by csomar on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @05:46AM (#21927544)
Problem is, do you consider outflow dollars as export or debt. Technically, they can be brought back to the US and be used there. That’s not how it works with exports (you are not likely to have a car returned to the US after 20 years), an exported item is an exported item.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by jotto on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:01PM (#21925902)
Why do you think there's not more discussion around forfeiting the privileged position? Or am I wrong, and is there a lot of discussion on it already?
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by dustingetz on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @02:09AM (#21927030)
there is bipartisan support for defending the trade deficit through military expansion, so there is no political will to be gained by drawing attention to this. there is a lot of discussion of this on macro econ podcasts.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by nine_zeros on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @06:41PM (#21925587)
That seems incorrect to me. Trade deficit means US is giving money to other countries to buy their resources. Thus, it is capital outflow.

However, without this trade deficit, US dollar will start declining as the major reserve currency. There just won't be as many dollars around in the world for other countries to hold.

As you surmised, yes, that will be pretty bad for the US.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by NovemberWhiskey on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:38PM (#21926054)
Goods and services are on the current account side of the balance of payments. Savings and investments are on the capital account side. The two should sum to zero (otherwise stuff is being given away for free, which we assume probably doesn't happen).

US consumers buy stuff with US dollars. Where do those US dollars go if the consumers spend them on imported goods? They end up invested in the US (or, depending on your political bent, "the Chinese buy up all of our companies").

The net international investment position (the amount of stuff the US owns abroad minus the amount of stuff other countries own in the US) is about -$11tn as a result of the persistent current account deficit and capital account surplus.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by Retric on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @09:34PM (#21926282)
> otherwise stuff is being given away for free, which we assume probably doesn't happen

It sort of does, in that we export USD. Using USD outside the US requires holding USD. Inflation means you need a continuing flow of USD to maintain that balance. Thus, on net the US is actually selling USD for goods.

“Federal Reserve data from 2017 showed that the number of $100 bills exceeded the number of $1 bills. However, a 2018 research paper by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago estimated that 80 percent of $100 bills were in other countries.“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_one_hundred-doll...

This is countered by people in the US holding foreign currency, but the US is very much exporting currency on net.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by burfog on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:22PM (#21925979)
"resources" is an oversimplification. These are incredibly different:

a. non-renewable resources like copper ore

b. renewable resources like hydroelectric power

c. the result of low-skill labor, such as assembling plastic toys

d. the result of high-skill labor, such as assembling jet aircraft

e. data that can be licensed, with trivial cost to produce each copy

To be in the best shape we need to have a mix that allows independence, employs people of all skill levels, and generally gives high profit.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by s_Hogg on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @07:45PM (#21925847)
You're both kind of right, just that there's a difference between the current account (trade) and capital account (cross-border investment flows).

In the current account you're just looking at the value of goods and services going each way across the border. In the capital account you're looking at investment going one way and the returns flowing back.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:23PM (#21925984)
> However, without this trade deficit, US dollar will start declining as the major reserve currency.

How true is that when the only thing that has happened is that the trade deficit is smaller? There is still an outflow, and meanwhile all of the US dollars that moved into foreign hands over the past century are all still out there.

It's more like a reduction in growth rate rather than the cessation of growth, and not a decline at all.

If it went to a trade surplus, sufficiently large to pull back a significant proportion of the dollars already out there, that would be much more of a concern.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by mooreds on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @09:39PM (#21926303)
> However, without this trade deficit, US dollar will start declining as the major reserve currency.

Not to mention that there is no other currency out there to be the global reserve currency.

The euro? No thanks say the Germans, who want to continue to run trade surpluses.

The yuan? No thanks say the Chinese, who want to control their exchange rate.

The yen? See the euro.

Sdrs? Not sure how a basket of currencies with no central bank to manage crises is a good solution.

The pound? Thanks, but we have enough issues right now, bugger off.

Any other currency? The market isn't big enough.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by nine_zeros on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @10:20PM (#21926446)
> Not to mention that there is no other currency out there to be the global reserve currency.

This is accurate. However, let's not fool ourselves. Having a single large reserve currency is not the only trading solution out there.

Most countries in close proximity, like south east asian countries for example, can easily trade in their local currencies. In fact, the more that China becomes the biggest importer of goods in Asia, the more irrelevant the dollar would become.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by mooreds on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:59AM (#21928028)
This is a strong argument. Do we need one global reserve currency, especially as we retreat from a global trading system? (Or at least from a global trading regulator, the WTO.)

For more on that, this is an excellent read:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/absent-superpower-the-shale-r...

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by Tomte on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @05:47AM (#21927548)
> The euro? No thanks say the Germans,

Periodic reminder that contrary to forum wisdom, Germany cannot just do whatever it wants in Europe (and France will certainly see to that).

When it comes to monetary policy: the Governing Council of the ECB has 25 members, two of which are German.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by mooreds on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:58AM (#21928024)
Fair point. My understanding is that all members have veto power over EU decisions and that Germany, France, Italy, Poland and Spain are first among equals due to size. But that is focused on an understanding of the EU, not a detailed understanding of the ECB.

But I imagine aiming to be a reserve currency would be a political as well as a monetary decision.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by roenxi on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:50AM (#21926982)
Strictly speaking there is no need to have any reserve currency. Trade between two countries can happen directly and prices can be denominated locally.

In a true crisis scenario international trade can fall back to a fixed standard (gold, crypto, whatever) for settling things.

In practice though I'd be surprised if all those countries were really unhappy with their currencies becoming the reserve. Being the reserve creates demand for paper which can be exchanged for real goods - a substantial win for the creators of the currency.

One of the big reasons to use the US dollar as the global reserve is the US government exerts itself to make that happen. If they stopped, others would cheerfully fill the gap. The real point of resistance is replacing the SWIFT system.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by owenversteeg on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:15AM (#21926907)
I get the idea the British would absolutely love it if the pound became the global reserve currency. Especially since a lot of people would really like it if it appreciated in value again after its serious Brexit drop.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by mooreds on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:54AM (#21928006)
This article talks about some of the costs of becoming a reserve currency:

"...I do not think that the role of the dollar provides for the US any “exorbitant privilege”, contrary to what many suppose. Rather, I have argued, it creates an exorbitant burden for the US economy, one that forces the US to choose between higher debt and higher unemployment whenever a country takes steps to force up its savings rate or, which is pretty much the same thing, to force up its current account surplus." https://carnegieendowment.org/2012/11/17/is-there-asian-rmb-...

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by jotto on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @07:49PM (#21925861)
Can you expand on why it would be pretty bad for the US?
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by nine_zeros on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @10:32PM (#21926480)
Very good question.

Let's say that being a single nationalistic reserve currency gives inordinate power in the hands of a few.

Some societal benefits are:

- There will never be shortages or famines like the Irish potato famine. You need potatoes, you print money and go get them

- There will never be shortages of labor. You need services and companies to support the massive infrastructure, you pay cheap labor and get them. This is why even very small counties in the US can handle online utility payments while it's not common in Germany or Japan

- Any time there is a recession, just print money out of it without worrying about inflation. For ALL other countries, the more they print, the lesser their currency goes in valuation. Think Argentina, Asian countries. US has been printing quite a bit as well but all those extra dollars don't cause inflation. They just provide liquidity. The inflation is exported to other countries. This is why so many countries have so many dollars in reserves now

- This printing press minus the inflation is the reason the US nominal GDP is so high. A haircut in US is the same as haircut in India. But a $70 haircut counts more towards GDP than a Rs 70 haircut

- This currency is also the reason why so many countries give visa on arrival to US citizens. Those countries need dollars and they want to make it easy for people to give it to them. The freedom to travel around the world with such a strong currency is uniquely American. Perhaps only bested by the British in the past

- US currency goes through US banks. Which means it is under US purview. This is how the US imposes sanctions on whoever they don't like. This is enormous power honestly. Japan and Korea are in a trade war but they can't really impose sanctions on each other as much as US on Iran.

Overall, being the reserve currency is an undue advantage that the US has. The standard of living in the US is abnormally high because of it.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by kerkeslager on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @02:51AM (#21927141)
I really don't know why you think we can just print dollars at will without it causing inflation: if that was an option, we would, because it would be stupid not to.

The US has been printing lots of dollars, with little inflation, because the rate of demand has matched the rate of printing. But it would be easy to print more dollars than are in demand, and that would cause inflation on the dollar just like any currency.

> - This currency is also the reason why so many countries give visa on arrival to US citizens. Those countries need dollars and they want to make it easy for people to give it to them. The freedom to travel around the world with such a strong currency is uniquely American. Perhaps only bested by the British in the past

This is nationalist nonsense. The US wasn't the strongest passport in 2019[1] and hasn't been in the past 4 years[2][3][4].

[1] https://www.atlasandboots.com/best-passport-to-have/

[2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/powerful-passports-2...

[3] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/most-powerful-passp...

[4] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/09/how-powerful-is-your-...

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by nine_zeros on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @04:48AM (#21927401)
How is the rate of demand for dollars growing?

Hint, global assets are all available for purchase on dollars. As more and more products get built in China and other countries and they are all willing to accept dollars for them, the rate of demand for dollars increases.

As for visa on arrival, most countries on it are similar GDP-wise. Which means their citizens have a low cost to convert to USD and their capital accounts are open so citizens can freely chnage into USD.

So their domestic currencies are almost as good as USD (or even Euros to some extent)

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by kerkeslager on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:38PM (#21929630)
> How is the rate of demand for dollars growing?

> Hint, global assets are all available for purchase on dollars. As more and more products get built in China and other countries and they are all willing to accept dollars for them, the rate of demand for dollars increases.

This doesn't contradict anything I said.

Yes, I understand why demand for dollars is going up. No, that doesn't mean we can just print dollars faster than demand and expect no inflation.

> As for visa on arrival, most countries on it are similar GDP-wise. Which means their citizens have a low cost to convert to USD and their capital accounts are open so citizens can freely chnage into USD.

So would it be fair to say that you're retracting your statement that this is "uniquely American"?

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by Accujack on Thursday January 02, 2020 @11:30AM (#21936758)
>There will never be shortages or famines like the Irish potato famine.

There will, because the potato famine wasn't caused by lack of money, it was caused by monoculture, historically poor land management practices encouraged by foreign interests, and genocidal tendencies on the part of the English.

If the Irish people had the ability to arbitrarily print money the way you suggest, they still would have been starving because the English would have taken the money AND the food.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by wyxuan on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @07:57PM (#21925882)
If US wants to finance their deficits, they can turn on a new printing press and people wouldn't be able to do much about it. They can't just say, we want you to pay us in <safer currency>, because the USD is that currency. Other countries have to pay their debts (usually) in USD, which is controlled by US.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by selectodude on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:03PM (#21925907)
ie it’s not pretty bad. sending worthless pieces of paper in exchange for goods and services that the recipient needs to then turn around and either loan back or use in the US is a net good.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by alasdair_ on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @11:35PM (#21926672)
The very act of printing too much currency would cause the dollar to become less and less safe.

A low levels of quantitative easing, it won’t matter much, but there is definitely an inflection point.

Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by ykevinator on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:42PM (#21926066)
Buying is not capital its expense.
Re:U.S. Goods Trade Deficit Declines to Smallest in Three Years by wyxuan on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @07:45PM (#21925842)
No, it includes capital inflow. I believe (and I may be wrong here), foreign investment in the US counts as an addition to the deficit.