News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:38AM (#21825897)
Does Google still provide a "significantly worse" experience if the user agent is Firefox? I recall that was true on Gmail and Youtube for a while.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by whelming_wave on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:02AM (#21826178)
It is very different on mobile. I just took some screenshots of Google search on Firefox on Android before and after enabling an addon that sets my user agent to Chrome on Google sites: https://imgur.com/a/P9zDn7B
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:02PM (#21826866)
Oh wow. That seems very deliberate.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by notatoad on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @01:44PM (#21827879)
It looks deliberate but it's also not clear to me which is the "better" version. It doesn't look like one has more features or is obviously newer or better. (i personally like the second screenshot better, but i think the rounded boxes in the first screenshot is actually google's latest design fad)

You can sometimes trigger similar changes in appearance to the search results view by switching to incognito or clearing your cookies - Google often A/B tests or performs slow rollouts of changes like this, a difference in appearance could just be because a new user agent string got you placed into a different release group.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by whelming_wave on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:56PM (#21829891)
It’s more apparent on other things - I probably should have searched for flights or movies or something else more interactive. Firefox-as-itself doesn’t get any nice features like upcoming movie times without going into other websites, while Firefox-pretending-to-be-Chrome does.

Honestly at this point I’d like to give up on the user agent header and have everybody say they’re Chrome all the time.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @02:21PM (#21828277)
I was reacting to "just today's stock price" versus "today's price plus some history".
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by bagacrap on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:01PM (#21828750)
In the first screenshot you see third party news stories above the fold and in the second story there's nothing but knowledge cards above the fold. Both are presenting relevant information (and no ads) but which format is preferable? My guess is that certain knowledge cards (like stock price history) are subtly less functional on FF so they are omitted.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by emn13 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:16PM (#21828940)
I'm seriously skeptical of that. It's plausible they didn't bother trying to get it to work in FF, and just thought "screw that". But judging by de screenshot of the stock price history alone, clearly FF has no trouble rendering that history - both screenshots are FF, right? It's only the UA header that was changed.

Incidentally, this is far from the first time google has been caught heavily optimizing exclusively for their own browsers, which, to be clear, is quite probably not explicit policy - but is monopolistic abuse nonetheless. Remember the youtube polymer redesign? The Edge HW acceleration-breaking invisible layers? I get the feeling they just don't test in other browsers nearly as well.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by bagacrap on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:04PM (#21829438)
A static screenshot does not fully capture the functionality of a web element, hence my use of the term "subtly".
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by emn13 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:13PM (#21838764)
Occam's Razor suggests you're looking for ghosts, and just to be sure I tried this on my phone: as far as I can tell behaviour using FF + chrome UA addon (which I specifically installed to test this) is indistinguishable from chrome as far as google search's stock ticker display goes. focusing points, time spans, toggle modes, clicking the extra-info chevron... all no difference.

Given google's history here you really shouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt in this matter; at best they're consistently, repeatedly negligent; but it's at least conceivable there's culture of giving additional other google teams; which is a form of monopolistic power abuse.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by notatoad on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:04PM (#21828798)
Oh yeah, that didn't even register to me. But still, when you get recommended stories vs when you get info cards is such black magic that i wouldn't assume that's necessarily firefox vs chrome either.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by doublerabbit on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:10PM (#21828863)
They are doing the same to Palemoon too. a few regular sites are recently failing to load within Palemoon.

Not a fan of Firefox and I refuse to like or use chrome.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by wolco on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:42PM (#21829772)
Which one is better and which photo is which?
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by whelming_wave on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:54PM (#21829866)
I can’t speak to better, but the first is unmodified user agent and the second is spoofing mobile Chrome’s.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by agildehaus on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @06:23PM (#21830539)
You're likely seeing the "newer" version on Chrome and they just haven't tested it enough in Firefox so they're not delivering it to Firefox users yet.

Yawn.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @06:32PM (#21830607)
Returning a chart on "xyz stock" is not new.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by Mathnerd314 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:03AM (#21826191)
There's still breakage in small areas: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1601831 https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/25270

IIRC though the main issue with YouTube was a slow polyfill library which has been fixed since they updated to the standardized version of Shadow DOM.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:15AM (#21826331)
Ah, that's good news then. I am somewhat worried about the Chrome monoculture with Edge going that direction and Chrome marketshare continuing to grow.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by Dolores12 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:27AM (#21826476)
Vivaldi reports itself as Chrome now, making Chrome numbers even higher
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by The_rationalist on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:34PM (#21827187)
Firefox will eventually die in 5 to 10 years if the marketshare trend continue. Firefox for Android already has a negligible number of users and as a consequence webmasters stopped to worry about making their mobile websites compatible with the limitations of Firefox.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by staplers on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @01:13PM (#21827563)
I would reckon a lot of those statistics are based on analytics rather than polling.

In which case Firefox blocks a lot of trackers so naturally their marketshare appears less than reality.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by The_rationalist on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:07PM (#21828838)
Adblock plus + uBlock == 6.5 millions of users for Firefox.

While this is not nothing, this should be a few 0.x % of global browser marketshare

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by input_sh on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:02PM (#21829420)
Firefox blocks trackers by default, no need for an add-on.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by fencepost on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @05:13PM (#21830021)
The android market share is a real shame, because Ff on Android is actually pretty darn solid.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by Nextgrid on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @07:38PM (#21831003)
YouTube is still unusably slow on Safari.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by bifrost on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:50AM (#21826734)
Every time I retry chrome/chromium I switch back to FF. Its just not worth it, turning off all the background pinging home/etc is really annoying too. I ended up DNS blackholing a bunch of stuff.

I use user agent switcher sometimes to poke around on sites, YT is totally broken and I ditched using google search about a decade ago due to their policies.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by vorticalbox on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @01:50PM (#21827928)
I'm the same I used brave for a while and fully support what they are doing just wish they had forked from firefox so it would actually have a functional sync rather than the pipeline rubbish they have current
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by bonestamp2 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:15PM (#21827000)
I use Chrome and Firefox and I've never noticed a problem with youtube. That said, I love how firefox actually prevents youtube from autoplaying (not even the youtube autoplay switch can seem to do that 100% of the time).
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by wolco on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:44PM (#21829790)
Have you tried vimeo? Doesn't work on firefox.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by aidenn0 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @09:14PM (#21831476)
I've been using firefox for years and never had a problem with vimeo; is the vimeo breakage recent?

[edit] picked the first video from "staff picks" on vimeo and it worked fine in FF:

https://vimeo.com/378423659

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by blacksmith_tb on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @05:42PM (#21830245)
Hmm, I just got a Vimeo video to play in FF Dev, but I had to solve two recaptchas to get there (probably because I am coming from my VPN endpoint, not just because they want to torture FF users).
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by catalogia on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @09:09PM (#21831456)
[right click] -> Open With -> mpv

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/open-with/

(If your desktop environment supports drag and drop, you can also drag and drop vimeo or youtube URLs into mpv.)

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by mhd on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:28PM (#21827142)
If I remember correctly, the big Youtube issue were with the "recent" redesign that involed a lot of web components code using the Polymer Material Design framework. And Firefox just wasn't as performant with that (polyfills required?)

I've always found the old design better (just like reddit), so I disabled polymer for YT and got both more performance and better UX out of that deal.

To try it out, just append &disable_polymer=1 after any YT video url.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by alpaca128 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:49AM (#21826716)
Considering YouTube(comments, notifications etc.) has had bugs constantly in recent years I don't think using one browser or the other would make a big difference on that site.

Even after more than one year you can still not make a one-line space between paragraphs in YT comments without editing the comment afterwards because YT will always insert additional empty lines for whatever reason.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tyingq on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:56AM (#21826800)
"don't think using one browser or the other would make a big difference on that site[YouTube]"

It did though. See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21826191

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by mauvehaus on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:14AM (#21826315)
I switched to the basic HTML version of gmail a year or so ago for that reason. If you don't need the advanced features, I highly recommend it, especially for occasional use. I do most of my email through Thunderbird.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by Wheaties466 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:46AM (#21825991)
I just downloaded their browser 10 min ago and I can't really tell any difference in search. Haven't really tried any other g products yet.

They claim to be open and most things are opt in but im not sure why their "human web" is not opt in.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by big_chungus on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:56AM (#21826109)
Have you tried a re captcha yet? They're awful on firefox (read: non-chrome), especially if not signed into a google account.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by Wheaties466 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:01PM (#21826862)
This seemed to work well. I can't find a better test.

https://patrickhlauke.github.io/recaptcha/

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by true_religion on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:41AM (#21826634)
Is there any good alternative to recaptcha?
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by ben509 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @08:57PM (#21831400)
That question has come up a few times, lots of good discussion in this post:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20058697

And the back and forth on whether you really need it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20158386

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by bifrost on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:51AM (#21826749)
Recaptcha works fine on FF...
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by jcranmer on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @01:58PM (#21828022)
It's not that it doesn't work, it's that there is an anecdotal bias towards making you do more work to prove you're not a robot.

I don't use Chrome, so I can't tell how bad it is on a comparative basis, but (especially in private browsing mode) Recaptcha can make you cycle through a half-dozen different images looking for the traffic lights or what not before letting you continue.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by __jal on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:22PM (#21829628)
> Recaptcha can make you cycle through a half-dozen different images

That's when I just leave. If I'm feeling nice, I'll drop the site owner a note explaining why, but usually not.

Nobody's site is that great.

Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by boring_twenties on Thursday December 19, 2019 @01:39AM (#21832547)
I had to stop ordering from Newegg because they wanted me to recaptcha just to log into my account. It seems to be fixed now, though.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by vorticalbox on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @01:53PM (#21827972)
Sure it works be Google will make ff do more steps and even load the images slower on the "click till non match" ones
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by gsnedders on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:03AM (#21826183)
Depends on the Google property and depends on device type (there's many more differences between Chrome on Android v. Firefox on Android compared with Chrome on Windows v. Firefox on Windows). Mobile really is still diabolical.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by tsukurimashou on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:44AM (#21825960)
they did it on purpose, I don't see why they would stop doing this, it basically means less money for them, not that I agree it should be a thing.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by abaga129 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @05:34PM (#21830177)
play.google.com/books can't be used from Firefox at all last time I checked.
Re:Why we Forked Firefox and Not Chromium by StuffedParrot on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:36AM (#21826569)
It’s certainly clear they haven’t spent an oz of effort improving it outside of chrome, that’s for sure.