News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by barretts on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:13PM (#21756917)
Do you think the 1,600 journalists at The New York Times, many of whom work in difficult environments (including the White House, lol), should work for free? Quite the Scrooge move.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by wolco on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:54PM (#21757267)
Calling someone a scrooge or cheap for finding a hole in a technical limitation device that is sloppy in its implementation as it is click-bait in it's dark patterns of pretending the page is an open page/free page so it can compete in the search engines but in reality it presents a paid-gate that only appears after leading content is very unhackernews like.

NYT one of the largest most profitable companies pretends to show you an article baits you and demands money and you are a scrooge for not paying? In that context they are the rich entity and should give the content away (the way Scrooge should have). No where in the story does it mention Tiny Tim finding coal in Scroogle's garbage and someone stopping him and calling him cheap for not paying full price because Scrooge employes so many people.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by baddox on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:04PM (#21757363)
> it is click-bait in it's dark patterns of pretending the page is an open page/free page so it can compete in the search engines but in reality it presents a paid-gate that only appears after leading content

This is the most important point here. If your content is not actually public, you really shouldn't get the benefits of search engine exposure, HN exposure, or even the distribution from sharing what appears to be a URL to a hypertext document.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by godshatter on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @06:08PM (#21757855)
Whenever I see a New York Times link somewhere, I just move on now since I know I can't read it. I'm not going to pay a subscription for every web site I might want to read an article on. Their business model is not my concern; if they want my business they'll have to try something else.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by sjdegraeve on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:31PM (#21757069)
For those who want a daily concise version of the New York Times, check out https://timesdigest.com/.

It's not free, but I've found it to be a great way to read the NYTimes.

Example of the 10-page daily PDF: https://timesdigest.com/samples/timesdigest

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by cmdshiftf4 on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @07:42PM (#21758404)
>Quite the Scrooge move.

Seconded. There's something very tasteless about a bunch of very well paid tech employees who'll readily decry adtech, tracking and data brokerage (despite many of them working on it themselves), who'll proclaim "there has to be another way!", who'll also lambast modern journalism for "falling quality", circumventing content subscriptions and depriving publishers of revenue simply because of a built-up sense of entitlement to everything being free.

If the content is worth reading, i.e. it's from a publisher you believe to be of sufficient quality to try and find methods to work around their subscriptions, then it's worth paying for.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by antisthenes on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @07:21PM (#21758274)
Reading many opinion pieces from NYT, I wouldn't cry if the vast majority of those journalists became unemployed. It's outrage journalism and thus not worthy of my time or attention.

NYT does do good journalism, but, even for a company with their credentials and resources, its share seems to be ever dwindling as time goes on.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by timar on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:31PM (#21757073)
I feel like, if PewDiePie can make 1 Million a month in youtube ad-revenue and 8 million total. A Newssite like NYT ought to be able to support their staff, thanks to a global reach and 240Million views per month.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by sharkmerry on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:35PM (#21757112)
8 million dollars over 1600 journalists is $5000 each. Pewdipie doesnt have the costs of running a news company and hes not in the news industry
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by timar on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:38PM (#21757149)
Yeah, thats 8 million a month. i feel like 5k a month is pretty good pay for a journalist.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by pvg on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:48PM (#21757222)
NYT should adopt the business model of a youtube edgelord and then pay its journalists submarket wages does not sound like a very realistic approach to running a solvent news organization.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by baddox on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:55PM (#21757280)
I don't think they should work for free. I'm not under the impression that they do work for free, or that blocking ads or paywalls will cause them to work for free.
[dead]
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by eindiran on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:11PM (#21757433)
From the HN Guidelines:

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by ailideex on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:02PM (#21757335)
I don't subscribe to the idea that you can steal something which is non-rivalrous and non-excludable.

To steal is "to take illegally, or without the owner's permission, something owned by someone else" - can't really take the bits from NYT - after someone reads their article without paying them NYT has no less bits than they had before.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by knolax on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:20PM (#21756990)
They should pay me reparations for reading some of the nonsense they publish.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by barretts on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:24PM (#21757010)
I'm sorry for your indentured servitude.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by dang on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:39PM (#21757657)
Please don't feed egregious comments by replying to them. That's in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by knolax on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @09:44PM (#21759097)
Thank you.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by neeksHN on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:54PM (#21757272)
Do you assume all HN users would reach the paywalls' read-limits through organic everyday use?

I felt forced to disable cookies and javascript on the following sites just after exclusively clicking on links submitted to HN: NYT, Medium, Washington Post, Bloomberg, MIT Technology Review and Harvard Business Review.

I'd prefer if submitters choose more user-respecting sources, but until then I refuse to feel guilty over stopping these intrusive sites and their dark patterns.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by larnmar on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:34PM (#21757101)
No, I feel that they should all go and get other jobs.
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by kerkeslager on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:40PM (#21757163)
Do you think that if the New York Times sends you a copy of their article, you're obligated to pay for it, even if you didn't agree to pay for it?

I'm happy to pay for content. I donate $10/mo to both Mother Jones and ProPublica. That's more for each than the cost of a New York Times subscription. Neither of these has a paywall. I'd prefer that they didn't have popovers either, but that's about as good as I can expect in the modern anti-privacy, anti-attention culture of the internet. I just don't feel obligated to pay for content that is sent to me without me ever agreeing to pay for it.

I also think search engines shouldn't index paywalled content, and that newsfeeds like HN or Reddit shouldn't allow links to paywalled content, and I consistently downvote paywalled content.

EDIT: I'm also going to start requesting that people not link to paywalled content when I see it, I think.

Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by chiefalchemist on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @04:17PM (#21756955)
Sidebar: working for and writing at tbe NYT - or any "news" publisher - doesn't make you a journalist. Journalist is a process and a result. We're too quick to use the word journalist. The low bar should not be so normalized.
[dead]
Re:Show HN: A bookmarklet to remove clickgates on New York T... by chiefalchemist on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:02PM (#21757338)
Ya think? If you read the NYT in the 70's and 80's like I did - and then compare it to today's - then you'd realize how hard I'm laughing right now.

You reflecting their approach (i.e.,unable to be objective) is nothing short of vindication (for me).