News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by bilbo0s on Monday October 21, 2019 @11:38AM (#21313505)
They can go out of business tomorrow, you just need to stop buying their products. So telling Blizzard to go out of business is useless, you need to tell all the people buying Blizzard products to stop doing so.

Directing messages at these companies is like speaking English to a Senegalese kid who only speaks Wolof and maybe a bit of French. The kid is just not even gonna make out what you're talking about. You affect their quarterly results, that's when you're speaking the language these companies understand.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by gpm on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:15PM (#21313994)
The fact that they are cancelling these events is proof that you are wrong... Blizzard, a company, is reacting to statements made in English not dollars.

In fact, I'd argue that they basically never react to statements made in dollars, one person can only control a small number of dollars by speaking in dollars, and can control a surprisingly large number of dollars by speaking in English.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by jrockway on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:35PM (#21314248)
Those of us that spend money on Blizzard products are definitely making our statement with dollars. I really want to play this new Priest deck in Hearthstone, but don't have any of the cards. Instead of buying some, I'm just not playing. I really want to play Overwatch with my friends that have a Switch, but I'm not buying Overwatch for the Switch until they make clear what their values are.

I'm giving Blizzard a chance because they have a lot of good will built up, but as time goes on it's becoming clear that they aren't going to do the right thing. Right now, it feels to me like if they could personally take the right to vote away from 8 million Hongkongers, they would. And that is not where I'm going to spend my money.

What I think is interesting about all of this is that China tried to make a power grab. Our market, our rules. But it appears that they like watching basketball more than they like every employee of the NBA to be opposed to reform in Hong Kong. And I'm guessing they like having their Chinese teams competing in the world stage in things like Hearthstone Grandmasters and Overwatch League, so they can't really tell Blizzard to take a hike. So with that in mind, I feel like Blizzard is free to do the right thing here; the last thing China wants is isolation. But it's a game of who blinks first, and corporations are pretty bad at playing that game.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by CharlesColeman on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:58PM (#21314513)
>> In fact, I'd argue that they basically never react to statements made in dollars, one person can only control a small number of dollars by speaking in dollars, and can control a surprisingly large number of dollars by speaking in English.

> Those of us that spend money on Blizzard products are definitely making our statement with dollars. I really want to play this new Priest deck in Hearthstone, but don't have any of the cards. Instead of buying some, I'm just not playing. I really want to play Overwatch with my friends that have a Switch, but I'm not buying Overwatch for the Switch until they make clear what their values are.

You can't make much of a statement with only dollars. There are a million reasons why someone may have chosen not to buy something, so the message sent is highly ambiguous and unlikely to be interpreted correctly.

Every boycott needs to be backed up with a statement outlining its reasons, and the boycott will only be maximally effective if each participant echos these statements to the boycotted company and in the media.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by SpaceManNabs on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:17PM (#21314747)
Good thing people are doing both. I am pretty sure Blizzard saw the myriad of messages attached to account deletions.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by Aperocky on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:18PM (#21314777)
The question is, are you the majority or the vocal minority?

The former works, the latter will sound extremely convincing (because you see the comments as being entirely one sided in favor of boycott) and achieve nothing.

Let's wait and see.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by LegitShady on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:41PM (#21317078)
I spent my money on blizzard products. I had most of their library. I had just bought the last hearthstone expansion.

I deleted the account and I urge you to do the same. Just not spending does nothing.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by bcrosby95 on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:19PM (#21314048)
You can do both. If people do nothing but complain and their bottom line isn't affected at all, it just tells companies they can ignore their audience.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by gpm on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:30PM (#21315587)
For sure, but you don't cancel events because of people just deleting their accounts. It's not like they were worried that this event would turn into a "let's silently delete our accounts party".
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by madez on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:16PM (#21314015)
I deleted my account on their service over this, and I know so did others. There was more spoken than just English.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by cm2012 on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:20PM (#21314058)
Yeah, my wife and I used to spend $500* per year on Blizzard stuff. We cancelled everything when the news came out.

*Two WoW subscriptions + me buying Hearthstone cards.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by madez on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:35PM (#21314243)
Deleting my account was a revealing relief. Not just your account as in some entry in a database gets deleted including the characters stored on their servers, but also every game you paid for and all the purchase you made inside the games. The shock from the revelation of the control the company had about what I thought I bought made me follow through and free myself from the sunken cost fallacy which was trying to stop me from deleting my account. That was a good lesson for me. I'll never again buy any product, be it a game, software, or hardware that any company can that easily take away from me.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by VRay on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:00PM (#21317941)
Amen, brother

Unfortunately I think that pretty much limits us to TuxRacer so far as the gaming space goes

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by madez on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:13PM (#21318077)
Thanks for the support.

We have more than Tux Racer. There are a lot of games without DRM and with full offline single-game experience, like for example the excellent Factorio. Factorio isn't without issues either, because it isn't free software. It is only released as a x86-64 binary, so when I get rid of my x86-64 desktop and switch to then hopefully RISC-V or POWER, I won't be able to run Factorio. Still, this is much better than anything Activision Blizzard offers. There are many other games like that.

Also, for many consoles the software works in emulators and are outside of the control of any company.

Yet, we need free software. There is no way around it.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by Hamuko on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:40PM (#21315013)
I've seen a lot of people post how they were unable to delete their accounts due to what seemed like obstruction on Blizzard's end.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by LegitShady on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:42PM (#21317089)
It was a hassle. If you didn't have two factor set your sucked.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by wuliwong on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:40PM (#21314307)
I'm pretty sure that OP didn't actually think Blizzard was going to read the message and decide to go out of business.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by LegitShady on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:43PM (#21317112)
I could only hope.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by LegitShady on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:40PM (#21317064)
I deleted my account with most of their library. Message received I hope.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by asdfman123 on Monday October 21, 2019 @11:57AM (#21313735)
The problem is that China is a country of a billion people, many of whom are rapidly entering the global middle class, so many companies depend on those new customers to hit their growth targets.

Companies growing so that they can be worth more when their investors sell them is the whole point of businesses in general. It's the reason we all go to work every day.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by nilkn on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:45PM (#21315776)
I think relying on China is about to become a very risky growth strategy. While China's population is much larger, the US is still large and very rich, and an American company is always going to understand how to develop and market products better for Americans than for China.

China's political censorship abroad, enforced via sheer economic muscle, has received extremely strong bipartisan condemnation in the US during a time of unprecedented partisanship; even AOC and Ted Cruz have blasted Blizzard. What China's trying to do goes against everything Americans have been raised to believe, from the most conservative to the most liberal. Political outrage within the US about domestic US affairs is often ineffective because it's too partisan, and it tends to just energize the other side (e.g., the Chick-fil-A controversy in 2012/2013 actually increased their sales). This is different because everyone agrees and there is no "other side" to energize, not within the US.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by goatinaboat on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:37PM (#21314968)
many companies depend on those new customers to hit their growth targets

They will never be your customers. You think they will, so you hand over your IP to a local partner, and then they don’t need you anymore and take those customers themselves. I am surprised any Western company still falls for this ruse.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by baq on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:03PM (#21313822)
greed is good until it isn't and some people, me included, think the line has been crossed here. or, in other words, if the chinese customers can only be serviced at the expense of following chinese laws everywhere in the world, perhaps they aren't worth servicing?
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by solipsism on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:24PM (#21314123)
many companies depend on those new customers to hit their growth targets

That's a choice.

Companies growing so that they can be worth more when their investors sell them is the whole point of businesses

Also a choice.

Companies are accountable for their choices. Accountable to their shareholders and to their customers. When those groups aren't aligned, then you're in a tough spot. You might wind up with a new set of shareholders or a new set of customers.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by freeopinion on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:10PM (#21316729)
Or no customers and no shareholders.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by zipwitch on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:37PM (#21314978)
Corporations are allowed to exist by the public (via the representatives of their collective will, i.e. government) under the belief that doing so will, overall, result in a net benefit to the public. Making a profit or increasing shareholder value are secondary considerations. They can be motivations for why a corporation exists, but don't have to be (there are plenty of non-profit corporations). They are not the sole raison d'être for the artificial constructs we call corporations.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by asdfman123 on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:33PM (#21315634)
> Corporations are allowed to exist by the public

I would argue that in America, the public is allowed to exist by corporations.

(Tongue in cheek cynicism, mixed with more truth than I'm comfortable with.)

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by zentiggr on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:15PM (#21313997)
And here I thought reputation, value exchange, and being a good corporate citizen were what made a company worthwhile and respectable.

Thanks for showing your position on the side of "money first people second, if at all".

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by munificent on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:37PM (#21314272)
This is an uncharitable interpretation of the parent comment.

If I say that male lions kill the cubs of rival males when they take over a pride, I am stating an observation, not making a moral claim that I am "on the side" of lions killing cubs.

It's a fair observation that the structural incentives of modern investment driven capital are that growth is absolutely rewarded and morality is often not. Good citizenship only rewards a company when there are enough consumers aware of that citizenship and who care enough to change their spending habits. At the scale of many corporations, it's very hard for enough people to care enough to affect the company's actions.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by okatsu on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:09PM (#21314659)
I think it's often underestimated just how many people don't care and are just focused on doing their job and feeding their kids. They might passively agree or disagree with something but acting on it is a whole different matter. Walmart's still bustling.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by moate on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:03PM (#21313831)
>>Companies growing so that they can be worth more when their investors sell them is the whole point of businesses in general

Eww. I thought it was about trading products and labor for currency and vice versa. The investor class is just a parasite on the whole endeavor.

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by TeMPOraL on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:14PM (#21313980)
Yup. Our civilization already pulls a bait-and-switch on children by teaching them (us) that work is about the contribution to society, and not making money while incidentally providing some value; the investor mindset of treating companies as first-class objects to pump up and pass around is making things even worse. I for one, when I go to work, don't give a damn about resale value to investors. I'm there to build maximally useful products to the customers that use them.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by PavlovsCat on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:32PM (#21314917)
> The ways in which most men get their living, that is, live, are mere makeshifts, and a shirking of the real business of life, - chiefly because they do not know, but partly because they do not mean, any better. The rush to California, for instance, and the attitude, not merely of merchants, but of philosophers and prophets, so called, in relation to it, reflect the greatest disgrace on mankind. That so many are ready to live by luck, and so get the means of commanding the labor of others less lucky, without contributing any value to society! And that is called enterprise! I know of no more startling development of the immorality of trade, and all the common modes of getting a living. The philosophy and poetry and religion of such a mankind are not worth the dust of a puffball. The hog that gets his living by rooting, stirring up the soil so, would be ashamed of such company. If I could command the wealth of all the worlds by lifting my finger, I would not pay such a price for it.

-- Henry David Thoreau, "Life Without Principle" http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER2/thoreau/life.html

Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by jothezero on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:39PM (#21314299)
I think China might be a great market for micro transaction based games. This is why Blizzard is acting like this.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by zamalek on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:50PM (#21314408)
Pedantry is important here, because it's important to point out that the Blizzard that people loved is long gone. It's really Activision Blizzard who are acting like this.
Re:Blizzard Postpones World of Warcraft 15th Anniversary Eve... by JoeAltmaier on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:41PM (#21314319)
Right. Follow the money.