News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by lqet on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:15AM (#21281663)
Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for Elektronische Steuererklärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices.

OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], which is actually very good and easy to use. Before, the only stable way to run their Desktop application on Linux was through wine.

[0] https://www.elster.de/eportal/login

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by robert_foss on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:20AM (#21282978)
Having moved from Sweden to Germany I appreciate Elster existing (and not being solely paper based unlike the other many many German beaurocratic exercises one has to Wade through).

However it misses the most important part. In Sweden your tax declaration comes pre-populated with data they already have, like salary/pension/savings/stock sales/etc., and you can either just accept it as it is or make changes to the already existing data.

It's so easy that you in fact just can send an SMS (that is verified to be from you) to the taxation agency saying that their suggestion is right.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by tapland on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:38AM (#21283192)
Banks send you letter the weeks before with capital gains, interest payments and employers send you letters with totals of taxes paid. They note if anything needs to be done manually.

The total time spend combined for me filing taxes for the last 10 years is less than 15 minutes. And the reason it isn't less than 3 is because I've logged in (using biometrics and password on my phone that is a hardware token to my bank wich is used for instant secure identification) to check that everything looks OK and to add the commuting at least 10 km/day on bike deduction.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by levosmetalo on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:30AM (#21283109)
In Germany, it's actually similar. You can opt in to include the data submitted for you by various sources and include them in your tax declaration. The only drawback is you need to select each one (salary, basic info, church tax info) to import it into your declaration, and that you need to wait until end of February since that's the deadline for third parties to submit your data.

Also, some things, like capital gains, you don't even need to declare if you used only German brokers, since they are legally required to submit it for you.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by fsw on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:57AM (#21291363)
It's called "Vorausgefüllte Steuererklärung" (see https://www.elster.de/eportal/infoseite/belegabruf_%28privat...).
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by epx on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:07PM (#21285356)
Brazil is going that way too. Currently only public servants and people with an expensive X.509 certificate get this pre-populated tax return, though.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by marcosdumay on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:07PM (#21285355)
In Brazil we have that option, but one must have a cryptographic token accepted by the government to access it. People usually don't have them, while companies are required to have one.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by germanier on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:34AM (#21283154)
It takes many clicks and requires to wait for a letter once but Elster offers that too (under the term "Belegabruf"). It then prepopulates the tax return with the data they have.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by MrGilbert on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:23AM (#21281738)
ELSTER is one of the few examples that come into my mind in terms of "software done right": It's stable and "just works", at least for me.

It's first version was released to the public in 1999, so... Yes, ELSTER is around for almost 20 years now, getting constantly refined at least in the front-end.

All in all, it's something you wouldn't have expected here in Germany in terms of software projects from the government.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by lqet on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:38AM (#21281899)
AFAIK, it is mostly developed in-house, at least the original version was developed by the Bavarian tax office. In my experience, if government software (for schools, tax offices, political participation, etc.) is developed by an external company, the primary objective of the company often quickly transforms from "creating usable software for all citizens" to "drain the most amount of money out of the infinite resources of the federal government".
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by lars_francke on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:52AM (#21282661)
It still is developed there but they have external consultants helping them.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by Angostura on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:43AM (#21281954)
I have to say that the UK's HMRC web-based self-assessment site has always struck me as being a really good example of tax returns done right.

It presents as the equivalent of the paper form but with many of the fields autocalculating for you, and offering contextual help. Quite nifty.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by codeulike on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:46AM (#21282601)
Yeah its pretty good when you consider the complexity it has to cover.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by Anarch157a on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:18AM (#21281687)
Here in Brazil the mascot of the Income Tax is a Lion, it's of an old ad campaign the government ran, comparing taxes with lions and saying "the lion is tame".
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by marcosdumay on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:11PM (#21285395)
It's because of an old popular joke in that the government is a lion that will always take a lion-sized bite from your income.

It's really an old joke. On any reference I have ever found, no matter how old, the joke is already old and the readership is expected to know it.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by exikyut on Thursday October 17, 2019 @06:11PM (#21286819)
Oh of _course_, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion's_share

Which is obviously intentionally ironic considering that

> The lion's share is an idiomatic expression which refers to the major share of something.

I wonder what other countries tuck these kinds of harmlessly blatant humor in similarly unexpected places. It's nice.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by kzrdude on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:31AM (#21282459)
The danish tax authority is called skat. It has a double meaning of taxes and loved one, it's as if the German one was called Schatz/Schätzle, I think it's cute.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by kmonsen on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:50AM (#21283320)
Isn't skat more like treasure that's also used for people? At least that's how it is in Norwegian. No idea why taxes use the same word, it sure so in Norwegian too.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by sobani on Friday October 18, 2019 @06:54AM (#21290241)
In Holland we have the word schat which also means treasure (and loved one).

As an extension of schat we also have schatkist, which means treasure chest, which is also used as the translation for treasury.

When I look up the meaning of schat the dictionary says: A large collection of valuables. I see how an organization gets named after the very thing they are supposed to handle.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by kzrdude on Friday October 18, 2019 @01:18PM (#21293203)
skat/skatt is common to danish/norwegian/swedish, and in all countries it means both taxes and treasure. In danish/norwegian it also means loved one, but swedes would miss that point.

The danes have chosen to name their tax authority not "skat authority" or something like that, just "skat" which evokes the friendly/funny pun.

Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by moron4hire on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:36AM (#21282506)
In English, the word "skat" is used to refer to animal droppings.
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by abruzzi on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:50AM (#21282634)
technically it is spelled "scat"
Re:TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Ta... by FPGAhacker on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:28AM (#21281794)
> This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices.

Love it.